Sukhoi Su-30MKI

Innominate

Well-Known member
Jun 23, 2021
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California
The only problem is that the Americans are convinced that we can't do better than them and they can't accept the reality when we prove them wrong, because from their point of view they are infallible, for example during a debriefing of the naval air force after a campaign in Syria/Iraq, the Rafale pilots explained that the US planners took several missions before admitting that they could ask the Rafale to go far (they had to understand "farther than the F18"). :cool: :D
Going off topic I see. You're the self anointed expert why don't you make a "call" and tell them to send you the date and model of the french plane that supposedly super cruised with 4 missiles and a center tank so that we can finally put this to bed, eh? Because the mach 1.8 top speed was done with the A model and its new (at the time) M88 engines. IT shouldn't be too hard for a person of your caliber to get a hold of such info that isn't classified.

So off you go and get us those numbers because with the exception of one, the folks here would really like to know what is the real deal and not BS since Safran CEO did say your plane has gotten heavier and still uses pretty much the same engine it entered service in... thrust wise.

Now run along and make your calls to your buddies and tell them that some guy in a aviation forum is calling you out.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
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India
For Russia, there is no money,

Not true. It's only an impression they want to push. But they have money. Inducting 400 jets in 7 years is no joke.
No it can't! You know who are the only people that boast about the french planes "super cruise" capabilities..? Messageboard fanboys. Dassault doesn't even boast about it or mention it. Didn't bring it up to the Egyptians, Greeks, UAE, India and other nations defense officials because they are not forum fanboys. Only one fighter boast of its SP capability and that is the F-22. If the F-22 was available for export years ago you can bet one of LM selling points would be its SP ability of which Dassault doesn't do.

Dassault does what USAF has done with their 4th gen fighters and that is uses the performance numbers of their prototype or A model fighters up to their latest variants which are much heavier. F-16 block 52 (clean) can't reach mach 2.0+ anymore it barely reached mach 1.9 in a down angle and only for seconds in a recent test. Dassault is using its A model numbers.

The demonstrator was initially powered by General Electric F404-GE-400 afterburning turbofans from the F/A-18 Hornet, instead of the Snecma M88, to reduce the risk that often comes with a first flight, and since the M88 was not considered sufficiently mature for the initial trials programme.[3][16] It was not until May 1990 when the M88 replaced the port F404 in the demonstrator to enable the aircraft to reach Mach 1.4 and demonstrate supercruise, or sustained supersonic flight without use of afterburners. After 865 flights with four pilots, Rafale A was retired in January 1994.

A fighter like the french plane which has a top speed of mach 1.8 (CLEAN CONFIGURATION) is not going to all of a sudden SP with 4 missiles and a center tank... well maybe on a 40 degree down angle which F-16s have demonstrated.

This is the fighter that randomradio talks about SP...
View attachment 22376

Since then the french plane has gotten a lot heavier and hasn't (According to Safran CEO) received an engine thrust upgrade since it entered service but somehow it can SP with 4 missiles and a center tank? Puh-leeze! I will say this randomradio is thee only person here that believes this BS and loves to claim the french plane can SP.

Btw the top speed number of mach 1.8 was done on the prototype/A model but so was the F-18E prototype which means current french planes and F-18E block II will struggle to reach mach 1.8 in clean configuration.

View attachment 22377

The IAF has already confirmed that the Rafale can supercruise.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
3,633
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France
Going off topic I see. You're the self anointed expert why don't you make a "call" and tell them to send you the date and model of the french plane that supposedly super cruised with 4 missiles and a center tank so that we can finally put this to bed, eh? Because the mach 1.8 top speed was done with the A model and its new (at the time) M88 engines. IT shouldn't be too hard for a person of your caliber to get a hold of such info that isn't classified.

So off you go and get us those numbers because with the exception of one, the folks here would really like to know what is the real deal and not BS since Safran CEO did say your plane has gotten heavier and still uses pretty much the same engine it entered service in... thrust wise.

Now run along and make your calls to your buddies and tell them that some guy in a aviation forum is calling you out.
Rafale official specifications from Dassault on their internet site : Rafale specifications and performance data

SPECIFICATIONS AND PERFORMANCE DATA​

Dimensions:​

Wing span10.90 m
Length15.30 m
Height5.30 m

Weight:​

Overall empty weight10 t (22,000 lbs) class
Max. take-off weight24.5 t (54,000 lbs)
Fuel(internal)4.7 t (10,300 lbs)
Fuel(external)up to 6.7 t (14,700 lbs)
External load9.5 t (21,000 lbs)

Store stations:​

Total14
Heavy-wet5

Performances​

Max. thrust2 x 7.5 t
Limit load factors-3.2 g / +9 g
Max. speedM = 1.8 / 750 knots
Approach speedless than 120 knots
Landing ground run450 m (1,500 ft) without drag-chute
Service ceiling50,000 ft
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,992
India
I mean each brigade has 4 squadrons and each squadron has 8 aircraft

Okay, so the CP-division-regiment-group-squadron system
1- 72+8 - 24+6 - 12 - 4

has been changed to base-brigade-group-squadron.
1 - [30 or 40 or 50 = (3 or 4 or 5 飞行大队)] - 10 - 4

The transition makes sense now.

WTC bases = Urumqi, Lanzhou and Lhasa.

So the Chengdu HQ has been moved to Lhasa. And the additional one in Lanzhou has been moved to Urumqi.

Anyway, I've figured out the composition. As of this time, each brigade has 24 jets and 6 spares. So 10 form a single flight group (飞行大队), with only 8 expected to be available for combat, so this is where you get your 8 or 32 for 3 flight groups. In the future, it's expected that a brigade will have 4 to 5 groups instead of just 3. The transition to 4 groups may be happening now, so it will take the operational numbers to 32 or a total of 40 jets.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
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Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
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Deliveries of modernized Su-30SM2 fighters may start in 2023

292494.jpg


"Currently, special flight tests (SLI) of the Su-30SM aircraft with the AL-41F-1S engine are underway (the same is the case for serial Su-35 - IF fighters). It is planned that they will be completed by December 2023," the source said. ...

According to him, the aircraft will have more than 150 test flights, now about 10% have been completed.

The source noted that at the moment, when upgrading the fighter to the level of the Su-30SM2, emphasis has been placed on equipping with additional aircraft weapons. The issue of installing AL-41F-1C engines on it and conducting tests starting from 2023 is being resolved.

"In the process of performing SLI on the Su-30SM (D) and Su-30SM2 aircraft, it is envisaged to issue a preliminary opinion, which will allow, according to the decision of the RF Ministry of Defense, to deliver Su-30SM2 aircraft with AL-41F-1S engines in 2023," he said. the interlocutor of the agency.

As Interfax reported, at the Army-2020 forum, the Ministry of Defense and the UAC signed a contract for the supply of modernized Su-30SM2 for the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Russian Navy. Earlier, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the department would order 21 new-built fighters.

According to the head of the UAC, Yuri Slyusar, the combat capabilities of the modernized aircraft will be significantly expanded, including through a new range of weapons. In addition, the Su-30SM2 will be completely import-substituted.

On August 12, 2020, Shoigu announced that specialists from the Irkutsk Aviation Plant installed the engines used in the Su-35S on the Su-30SM fighter, and flight tests will be carried out in the near future.

The development of a new modification of the Su-30SM fighter became known in July 2019. Then the source of "Interfax" in the aviation industry reported on the ongoing work under the code "Su-30SM (D)", which involves the installation on the Su-30SM of the most modern aircraft engines AL-41F-1C, which have increased thrust, resource and efficiency, thanks to which the fighter can stay in the air longer with the same amount of fuel.

The Su-30SM (modernized serial) is a 4+ generation multipurpose fighter developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau and is serially produced at the Irkutsk aircraft plant of the Irkut corporation (both companies are part of the UAC). It is intended for gaining air supremacy, blocking enemy airfields at great depths, destroying air, ground and sea targets with precision air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons.

Su-30SM aircraft have been serially supplied to the troops since 2013. Today they have become the most numerous type of modern fighters in service - the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Russian Navy have already received more than 100 such machines.

The aircraft engine AL-41F-1C (product 117C) was developed by the Lyulka Design Bureau (part of the United Engine Corporation, UEC). It is a modular twin-shaft by-pass turbojet engine with thrust vector control and digital complex governor. Improved engine performance is achieved through the use of a new low pressure compressor with increased air consumption and efficiency, as well as a new turbine with a more efficient blade cooling system.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,515
4,615

Did they launch Air to Air missiles at the same time
Deliveries of modernized Su-30SM2 fighters may start in 2023

292494.jpg


"Currently, special flight tests (SLI) of the Su-30SM aircraft with the AL-41F-1S engine are underway (the same is the case for serial Su-35 - IF fighters). It is planned that they will be completed by December 2023," the source said. ...

According to him, the aircraft will have more than 150 test flights, now about 10% have been completed.

The source noted that at the moment, when upgrading the fighter to the level of the Su-30SM2, emphasis has been placed on equipping with additional aircraft weapons. The issue of installing AL-41F-1C engines on it and conducting tests starting from 2023 is being resolved.

"In the process of performing SLI on the Su-30SM (D) and Su-30SM2 aircraft, it is envisaged to issue a preliminary opinion, which will allow, according to the decision of the RF Ministry of Defense, to deliver Su-30SM2 aircraft with AL-41F-1S engines in 2023," he said. the interlocutor of the agency.

As Interfax reported, at the Army-2020 forum, the Ministry of Defense and the UAC signed a contract for the supply of modernized Su-30SM2 for the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Russian Navy. Earlier, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the department would order 21 new-built fighters.

According to the head of the UAC, Yuri Slyusar, the combat capabilities of the modernized aircraft will be significantly expanded, including through a new range of weapons. In addition, the Su-30SM2 will be completely import-substituted.

On August 12, 2020, Shoigu announced that specialists from the Irkutsk Aviation Plant installed the engines used in the Su-35S on the Su-30SM fighter, and flight tests will be carried out in the near future.

The development of a new modification of the Su-30SM fighter became known in July 2019. Then the source of "Interfax" in the aviation industry reported on the ongoing work under the code "Su-30SM (D)", which involves the installation on the Su-30SM of the most modern aircraft engines AL-41F-1C, which have increased thrust, resource and efficiency, thanks to which the fighter can stay in the air longer with the same amount of fuel.

The Su-30SM (modernized serial) is a 4+ generation multipurpose fighter developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau and is serially produced at the Irkutsk aircraft plant of the Irkut corporation (both companies are part of the UAC). It is intended for gaining air supremacy, blocking enemy airfields at great depths, destroying air, ground and sea targets with precision air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons.

Su-30SM aircraft have been serially supplied to the troops since 2013. Today they have become the most numerous type of modern fighters in service - the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Russian Navy have already received more than 100 such machines.

The aircraft engine AL-41F-1C (product 117C) was developed by the Lyulka Design Bureau (part of the United Engine Corporation, UEC). It is a modular twin-shaft by-pass turbojet engine with thrust vector control and digital complex governor. Improved engine performance is achieved through the use of a new low pressure compressor with increased air consumption and efficiency, as well as a new turbine with a more efficient blade cooling system.

@randomradio

AL 41 equipped SU 30 SM are good
Option for India in case RAFALE additional planes deal does n't move forward
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Russian radar offerings still deemed unsatisfactory. And desi option not yet available.

MLU if starts within this year, won't have AESA in it.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,337
13,260
Mumbai
Russian radar offerings still deemed unsatisfactory. And desi option not yet available.

MLU if starts within this year, won't have AESA in it.
They're already testing the Su-57 Mk -2 . Are you suggesting it's minus the AESA radar ? Besides our Uttam Mk-2 won't be out before 2025-26 either.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
5,350
8,834
Bangalore
Russian radar offerings still deemed unsatisfactory. And desi option not yet available.

MLU if starts within this year, won't have AESA in it.
Definitely will. Because MLU takes 3-4 years just to integrate and test. A scaled GaA version will be available by then. IAF and HAL now has the capability to overhaul 30+ MKI simultaneously. So hopefully induction speed would be better.
 
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