Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
1,554
1,004
Delhi
The whole point of buying 7.62X51MM rifles is to not use them in CI/CT ops where spray and pray is needed, it was purchased as a direct reaction to the Pakistanis having a slight advantage on the LOC with their 7.62x51 G3s in terms of lethality and range. You have to remember the SIG is lighter than the INSAS and has future upgradability y when funds are available to mount Night Vision/Thermal/Flashlights/Optics vs an AK where you have little upgradability, less space to mount such accessories and you’ll have to end up splurgiing on FAB Defense Mod kits and bring the price to higher levels than the SIG. 7.62x39mm caliber is already beginning to get outdated in the global scheme of things.
7.62X51 also is useful in the mountains of LAC is used properly and definitely better than AKs 7.62x39mm there.
You have absolutely no proof that the DI Sig 716 is less reliable than an AK, I suggest you do not jump to such rash conclusions without any sort of proof. Modern American DI rifles have nearly caught upto the reliability levels of piston driven AR rifles and AKs.
Let's not forget sig 716i actually won some award in 2020 in the American civilian market.
SIG SAUER 716i TREAD Receives 2020 Ballistic Best Reader’s Choice Award for Best AR-10 Rifle
So its actually one of the best battle rifles in the American civilian market, shows how good the gun really is.
 

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,693
9,933
Tripura, NE, India
New Indian small arms company named "Malhotrasons Defence Private Limited" based in UP. The company was incorporated in 2016 according to their website.

About Malhotrasons Defence Private Limited

Their 1st product for the Indian market is a 0.45 cal pistol based in the M1911 design. The pistol is named MSD Gauardian1911. They are also working on a 0.30 cal pistol based on the Russian Tokarev TT-30. These pistols are going to be offered to the military & civilian markets.

You can see the 0.45 cal prototype in the video below. At the end of this video you can see the Webley WP30 0.32 cal pistol prototype. It is an original design by Webley India.


The domestic small arms scene is getting better. Not sure if the restrictions on civilian ownership of firearms will be lowered though. Here is a video of firing test from a month or so back.


The MSD Guardian1911 pistol looks close to being ready to be on sale. Here are a few variants on the pistol.


Build quality seems to be pretty good.
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AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,490
1,826
Republic of Wadiya
New Indian small arms company named "Malhotrasons Defence Private Limited" based in UP. The company was incorporated in 2016 according to their website.

About Malhotrasons Defence Private Limited

Their 1st product for the Indian market is a 0.45 cal pistol based in the M1911 design. The pistol is named MSD Gauardian1911. They are also working on a 0.30 cal pistol based on the Russian Tokarev TT-30. These pistols are going to be offered to the military & civilian markets.

You can see the 0.45 cal prototype in the video below. At the end of this video you can see the Webley WP30 0.32 cal pistol prototype. It is an original design by Webley India.


The domestic small arms scene is getting better. Not sure if the restrictions on civilian ownership of firearms will be lowered though. Here is a video of firing test from a month or so back.


The MSD Guardian1911 pistol looks close to being ready to be on sale. Here are a few variants on the pistol.


Build quality seems to be pretty good.
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View attachment 21788
Definitely a good looking pistol. Do they really have factory here or just importing some foreign white label product ?
 

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,693
9,933
Tripura, NE, India
Do they really have factory here or just importing some foreign white label product ?
100% of the pistol's manufacturing in done in their Meerut factory which is a part of the UP defence corridor. It is likely they import billets made of specialty steel from abroad for making their cold hammer forged barrels. That's largely because there aren't a lot of steel makers that make these billets in India & the ones that do are exclusive sold to the OFB & some other large pvt. defence companies like IWI-Punj Lloyd, L&T etc.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
 
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TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
696
579
My point was , when you(army) already have purchased a rifle specially designed to use accessories, why not use the essential accessories atleast. Otherwise just buy whatever crap ak47 copy OFB produces and spray bullets towards any direction you like. Why bear additional weight and cost of m-lok, p-rails etc when you are not going to use it anyway. AKs are much more reliable than DI716 anyway and are lighter too.
PS: Barebone Sig 716 looks atrocious. Also seeing soldiers fumbling with 3point slings looks bad.
Totally agree, Indian Army still lacks in equipping optics in their guns, all the rifles including AK 47, Tavor in the IA inventory should equip with some or other sights. Now with a long-range rifle like SIG 716 with sights, it will definitely add more advantages, we also need to provide proper training to our guys on optics uses,

 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,490
1,826
Republic of Wadiya
Totally agree, Indian Army still lacks in equipping optics in their guns, all the rifles including AK 47, Tavor in the IA inventory should equip with some or other sights. Now with a long-range rifle like SIG 716 with sights, it will definitely add more advantages, we also need to provide proper training to our guys on optics uses,

Even the soldiers are now complaining about the non availability of hand guards, reflex sights/scopes and other accessories, which are hindering proper and effective use of this modern (although DI) weapon system.
Just got to know it on DF I.
 

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,693
9,933
Tripura, NE, India
OFT to deliver 100 TriCa compact carbine weapon for National Security Guards

BY SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT
TIRUCHI, DECEMBER 13, 2021 20:08 IST
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It has been developed through in-house research and development

Having witnessed a significant surge in demand for its indigenously-developed Tiruchi Assault Rifle (TAR) in recent years, Ordnance Factory, Tiruchi, is poised to fulfil an order for 100 units of TriCa compact carbine weapon, also developed through in-house research and development, placed by the National Security Guards (NSG).

States dealing with Naxals were keen on equipping their forces with the compact 7.72x39 mm carbine weapon, the shorter version of TAR, Officer-In-Charge of Ordnance Factory, Tiruchi, Rajiv Jain, said on Monday on the sidelines of the local public exhibition of Defence Products.
OFT, a unit of Advanced Weapons and Equipment India Limited (AWEIL), Kanpur, is hosting the exhibition as part of the commemoration of ‘Azadi Ka Amrit Mahotsav’ and [email protected] Tiruchi is one of the 75 locations across the country where the Ministry of Defence has instructed conduct of the exhibition of the modern defence products till December 19.

OFT, has, so far, completed deliveries for 30,000 TAR weapons that are customised to meet the requirements of buyers, and will be completing the delivery of 42,000 to 45,000 units during this fiscal out of the orders for 78,000 weapons placed collectively by the Central Reserve Police Force, Border Security Force, Sashastra Seema Bal, and police forces in States, Mr. Rajiv Jain said.

The exhibition started with a formal inaugural address through video-conference by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh. Defence Corridor projects in Uttar Pradesh and Tamil Nadu, conversion of Ordnance Factory Board into seven defence public sector undertakings were initiatives aimed at transforming India into a net exporter of defence equipment, the Minister said.

Highlights among the exhibits included the Stabilised Remote Control Gun System, a lethal weapon enabling effective combat engagement while the operator remains safe below the deck, for which the OFT had developed expertise with technology transfer from Israel; and the powerful fire weapon NSV-T 12.7 mm Machine Gun AD, essentially an anti-aircraft gun developed with Russian technology, which can also be used in anti-armour and anti-personal roles, mounted on ajeyha (T-72) and T-90s tanks.

The High Energy Projectile Factory, Tiruchi, a unit of Munitions India Limited, has put on display its products that included RGB-60 and its range of FSAPDS (Fin Stabilised Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot).

Also on display are vintage weapons used in World War II constituting MG 15 - 7.92 mm machine gun (Germany), Fiat - Ravelli Modello 1935 Italian Medium Machine Gun, Bren .303 in MK Light Machine Gun, Berthier Light Machine Gun Mk3, Chatellerault M1924/ 29 Light Machine Gun, Vickers-Berther Light Machine Gun Mk3, Rifle No 5 MK 1, V.L. Pistol Signal 1, Luger Pistol 9mm, Welrod MK 11A 9mm Pistol, MP-40 carbine, and Sten 9mm MKS.

OFT to deliver 100 TriCa compact carbine weapon for National Security Guards

Video:

 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,538
10,781
India
Then why Falcon is grumbling about army is getting older weapons but police forces are buying better ones?

No clue about what he tweeted, or whether he was referring to ARs. But that is the situation right now. The tender for the infantry ARs is yet to start. The army needs 250k new ARs at the minimum.

I guess they are giving priority to the carbine and LMG tenders right now, 'cause they at least got 135k SIG716s for now. Plus the fact that the AK-203 had priority after the SIG716s. The FTP carbine tender is ongoing today. Meanwhile it appears the LMG contract for 41000 rifles will go to Negev NG-7, so Kalyani's gonna be manufacturing those.

My bet: 2022. Or whenever the army is ready with the new tender.
 
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AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,490
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Republic of Wadiya

Guys check out the whole thread to see India Optel Ltd.’s new and old product line and their specs. Also keep an eye on this account for more pictures in the upcoming days.
For a 4x magnification it looks quite bulky. But much better than having nothing.
BTW do these optics have aiming crosshairs or dots and or ballistic drop markings (or whatever they are called)
 

Aditya b7777

Active member
Nov 30, 2020
93
168
Karnataka
For a 4x magnification it looks quite bulky. But much better than having nothing.
BTW do these optics have aiming crosshairs or dots and or ballistic drop markings (or whatever they are called)
All Anshu was willing to divulge when I asked him personally was it has a Mil-grade reticle but refused to specify more(he has seen the scope physically)

In my opinion this is the most important out of all the optics shown today, since it’s the first time we’re seeing a variable power sight developed by India Optel(formerly OFB) of 5-15x. It is important as it gives an alternative to the Vector Optics sight which is a Chinese firm, who’s sight is issued with Rifle Factory Ishapore’s 7.62 NATO sniper rifle.
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