Shivalik Class (Project 17/17A) & Talwar Class Frigates

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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@Ankit Kumar

Is there any revamp / restructuring of shipyrads on card?

Something similar has happened with HAL /Isro / OFB?

Drying up orders / waiting on for orders/ making them build indigenous platforms / involvement of private sectors in sub assemblies
??

Seems like submarine arm & even surface ship order book of MDL is getting nothing yet.
GRSE for its part has been trying to sub contract work to Titagarh Wagons and MDL to a Gujarat based shipyard. This is a good step, if the order was in double digits. We are building capability to be ultimately lost again.

GSL invested a lot to be able to build non metallic hulls. Now where are the Minesweepers?

Naval orders will never sustain shipbuilding which gov is trying to do.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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Note: Even Navies who operate Harpoons or Exocet, will usually fire a salvo of 3-4 missiles on a Frigate size target. Now a Talwar class frigate will be at a disadvantage when faced with such a threat as it has a single arm launcher. Means it cannot fire multiple sams at once. With 4 Harpoons flying towards a Talwar, 100% chances are that atleast 1-2 will hit the target.

We need to immediately move away from arm launchers and also from illumination methods.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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India

Note: Even Navies who operate Harpoons or Exocet, will usually fire a salvo of 3-4 missiles on a Frigate size target. Now a Talwar class frigate will be at a disadvantage when faced with such a threat as it has a single arm launcher. Means it cannot fire multiple sams at once. With 4 Harpoons flying towards a Talwar, 100% chances are that atleast 1-2 will hit the target.

We need to immediately move away from arm launchers and also from illumination methods.

The Talwar class will not operate alone, it will operate as part of a fleet. The main advantage is it has enough firepower and is very cheap to buy and operate.

Also, during war, no one is expecting ships to come out unscathed. Even the best ships will get hit. But it's not easy to sink ships. The Russian crew simply screwed up, they needed better training and more time at sea.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
The Talwar class will not operate alone, it will operate as part of a fleet. The main advantage is it has enough firepower and is very cheap to buy and operate.

Also, during war, no one is expecting ships to come out unscathed. Even the best ships will get hit. But it's not easy to sink ships. The Russian crew simply screwed up, they needed better training and more time at sea.
The sinking part was simply untrained crew + obsolete ship.

I have seen OHP frigates taking upto 12 hits and still needing C4 to sink.

But still ships can be disabled. And having a VLS delivery system increases the survival chances many folds. The Delhi Class and P17 also have B1, so they are not exactly in a threat.

But we need to find a solution for SAM on Talwar class. The most ideal solution would have been adding B8. But its costly. VL SRSAM even if it's max engagement altitude is like 9-10km and range is like 20+ km, it would be an awesome replacement. It would also be economical.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,957
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The sinking part was simply untrained crew + obsolete ship.

I have seen OHP frigates taking upto 12 hits and still needing C4 to sink.

But still ships can be disabled. And having a VLS delivery system increases the survival chances many folds. The Delhi Class and P17 also have B1, so they are not exactly in a threat.

But we need to find a solution for SAM on Talwar class. The most ideal solution would have been adding B8. But its costly. VL SRSAM even if it's max engagement altitude is like 9-10km and range is like 20+ km, it would be an awesome replacement. It would also be economical.

It's too bad there are only 2 CIWS points, but a simpler objective would be to replace the AK-630 with Pantsir-M. The first 3 Talwars have the Kashtan, while the following 3 received the AK-630.

While the Delhi and first 3 Talwars may not get it, I feel the VLS-Shtil would be enough. Even the Russians are working with the VLS and AK-630 combo.
 

Ashwin

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CURTAIN RAISER

LAUNCH OF Y - 3023 (DUNAGIRI)
Posted On: 14 JUL 2022 4:00PM by PIB Delhi
Dunagiri, a Project 17A frigate, will be launched into the Hooghly river at Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Limited, Kolkata on 15 Jul 22. Shri Rajnath Singh, Hon’ble Raksha Mantri will be the Chief Guest for the event.

Christened after a mountain range in the state of Uttarakhand, ‘Dunagiri’ is the fourth ship of P17A Frigates. These are follow-on of the P17 Frigates (Shivalik Class) with improved stealth features, advanced weapons and sensors and platform management systems. ‘Dunagiri’ is the reincarnation of the erstwhile ‘Dunagiri’, the Leander Class ASW Frigate, which in her 33 years of service from 05 May 1977 to 20 Oct 2010, had witnessed various challenging operations and multinational exercises. The soul of a ship lives eternally and finds a suitable ship. The first two ships of P17A Project, were launched in 2019 and 2020 at MDL and GRSE respectively. The third ship (Udaygiri) was launched at MDL on 17 May 22 earlier this year. The launch of the fourth ship within such a short span is a testimony to the impetus provided towards self-reliant shipbuilding with a focused approach.

P17A ships have been designed in-house by Indian Navy’s Directorate of Naval Design (DND), which has successfully spear-headed design of numerous class of indigenous warships in the past. This is a testimony of nation’s unwavering efforts towards ‘AatmaNirbharata’ as 75% of the orders for equipment & system are also being placed on indigenous firms including MSMEs

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