Shivalik Class (Project 17/17A) & Talwar Class Frigates

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
4,891
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Bangalore
Screenshot (40).png
 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
368
410
Canada
Piecemeal orders. Albeit this is the first order of significant ones. Earlier we used to order 3, then 4 or another 3 of the same type with long delays in between. China builds 7 in one go in one config before going for minor or major upgrade with same base and orders another batch of 7. We should start following their same models. Their single shipyard is building 7 destroyers simultaneously. We have got to adapt and build ships at a faster rate. Time to try out Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine too.
 
Dec 4, 2017
238
411
France
Recent news suggest India might buy one (Project 11356) Grigorovich-class frigate from Russia while the rest three would be constructed in India.

In addition, India agreed to purchase four Project 11356 frigates from Russia ("Admiral Grigorovich" class). In particular, the parties agreed that one ship would be built at Russia's Yantar shipyard, and three other frigates - in India. The agreement totaled about $3 billion.

www.pravdareport.com/world/asia/26-12-2017/139544-india_russia-0/

Could be because of the progress Russia has made with their own turbine development.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
4,891
7,988
Bangalore
Recent news suggest India might buy one (Project 11356) Grigorovich-class frigate from Russia while the rest three would be constructed in India.

In addition, India agreed to purchase four Project 11356 frigates from Russia ("Admiral Grigorovich" class). In particular, the parties agreed that one ship would be built at Russia's Yantar shipyard, and three other frigates - in India. The agreement totaled about $3 billion.

www.pravdareport.com/world/asia/26-12-2017/139544-india_russia-0/

Could be because of the progress Russia has made with their own turbine development.
Or maybe it makes more sense for Goa shipyard to make a minimum of three in India.

These price estimates are very confusing from all reports. It must have been $2.5 billion for four at max. Else it doesn't make any sense to buy these.
 

Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
858
949
Ban galore
Construction Of P17A Class Stealth Frigates Begins


Vice Admiral D M Deshpande, CWP&A, Laid The Keel Of The First Ship (Yard-12651) Of P17A Class Stealth Frigates Yesterday In The Presence Of Cmde Rakesh Anand, Chairman & Managing Director, MDL; Sanjiv Sharma, Director (Finance); And Senior Officials


V Adm D M Deshpande, CWP&A, Cmde Rakesh Anand (retd), CMD, MDL; and Sanjiv Sharma, director (finance), along with senior officers from MDL and Navy at the keel-laying ceremony

Vice Admiral D M Deshpande, CWP&A, laid the keel of the first ship (yard-12651) of P17A class stealth frigates yesterday in the presence of Cmde Rakesh Anand, chairman & managing director, MDL; Sanjiv Sharma, director (finance); and senior officials of MDL and Indian Navy.

Construction of P17A ships differs in the very concept of frontline warship building by way of adoption of modern technology of ‘Integrated Construction (IC) methodology’, where the blocks are pre-outfitted with pipes, etc, to reduce the build period of warships.

P17A warships are follow-on warships of the Shivalik class stealth frigates. Seven frigates in this series will be constructed, of which four will be constructed in MDL and three in GRSE with MDL as the lead yard. The P17A class frigates will have enhanced stealth features. These ships are being built using indigenously developed steel and fitted with state-of-the-art weapon and sensor systems along with advanced Integrated Platform Management System.

More at : Construction of P17A class stealth frigates begins
 

suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
791
970
Bangalore
Navy agrees to buy four Russian frigates for $3 billion

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 26th Feb 18

New Delhi and Moscow have finalised contractual terms for four new stealth frigates that Russia will supply the Indian Navy for slightly over Rs 20,000 crore ($3 billion), or about Rs 5,000 crore ($775 million) per vessel.

Designated the “Upgraded Krivak III-class”, the first two frigates will be built in Yantar Shipyard, in Kaliningrad, Russia. The following two will be built in Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL) with technology and designs transferred by Yantar. Delivery will begin within four years of signing the contract.

With a defence ministry “cost negotiation committee” having hammered out terms, it remains for the finance ministry and the cabinet to clear what will be the first capital warship contract signed since Project 17A was contracted in early-2015.

The navy already operates six Krivak III frigates. The first three joined the fleet between June 2003 and April 2004, followed by another three between April 2012 and June 2013. With the current contract, the navy will operate ten Krivak III frigates – the fleet’s largest single type.

The Krivak III costs marginally less than the Rs 5,750 crore ($888 million) that the navy will pay for each of seven indigenous frigates that Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai (MDL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, Kolkata (GRSE) have been contracted to build under Project 17A.

However, tonne-for-tonne, the indigenous frigates are cheaper. Each displaces about 5,600 tonnes fully loaded, significantly more muscular than the 4,000-tonne Krivak III. Further, each Project 17A frigate has space for two multi-role helicopters, while the smaller Krivak III embarks just a single Kamov-31 chopper. An extra helicopter provides major advantages in anti-submarine operations and airborne early warning.

Even so, with MDL, GRSE and GSL already stretched to capacity, navy planners are satisfied that Yantar is meeting India’s urgent need for more capital warships. The navy is also pleased with how the Krivak III fleet has performed over time.

New Delhi wanted to build all four Krivak III frigates in GSL under “Make in India”. However, Yantar had already part-built two frigates for the Russian Navy, which then backed away for lack of funds. New Delhi has obliged Moscow by buying them.

The part-built frigates at Yantar are also stalled by a defence embargo that Ukraine imposed on Russia after the latter annexed the Crimea. New Delhi, which has close defence relations with Ukraine, has undertaken to procure and provide Yantar the Zorya turbines that will power them.

The agreed terms stipulate a certain level of Indian-isation for the first two vessels that Yantar will deliver, and a significantly higher level for the next two vessels that are to be built in Goa.

For GSL, building a vessel as complex as a frigate will require upgrading its facilities and skills. However, naval planners say GSL should not take long to learn, having recently undergone the experience of building missile corvettes that are similarly dense in weapons and sensors.

These new Krivak III frigates will have the same engines and armament configuration as Yantar’s last three frigates – INS Teg, Tarkash and Trikand. These include the vaunted BrahMos anti-ship and land attack missile.

Senior naval planners underline the advantages of negotiating a “follow-on” contract, i.e. for vessels similar to those procured earlier. While it took six months to negotiate the contract for the Teg, Tarkash and Trikand, negotiations for the current contract took just 45 days to negotiate and finalise.

The navy’s medium term plans envisage increasing warship strength from the current 140-odd, to 198 warships by 2027. This will require adding 5-6 warships annually.

While some 75 vessels of various types are in the navy’s procurement pipeline, there remains a worrying shortfall of frigates, which are the navy’s workhorses. “We need to have at least 24 frigates. Currently we are ten short”, says a senior admiral.
 

Notsuperstitious

Well-Known member
Dec 31, 2017
411
554
India
Navy agrees to buy four Russian frigates for $3 billion

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 26th Feb 18

New Delhi and Moscow have finalised contractual terms for four new stealth frigates that Russia will supply the Indian Navy for slightly over Rs 20,000 crore ($3 billion), or about Rs 5,000 crore ($775 million) per vessel.

Designated the “Upgraded Krivak III-class”, the first two frigates will be built in Yantar Shipyard, in Kaliningrad, Russia. The following two will be built in Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL) with technology and designs transferred by Yantar. Delivery will begin within four years of signing the contract.

With a defence ministry “cost negotiation committee” having hammered out terms, it remains for the finance ministry and the cabinet to clear what will be the first capital warship contract signed since Project 17A was contracted in early-2015.

The navy already operates six Krivak III frigates. The first three joined the fleet between June 2003 and April 2004, followed by another three between April 2012 and June 2013. With the current contract, the navy will operate ten Krivak III frigates – the fleet’s largest single type.

The Krivak III costs marginally less than the Rs 5,750 crore ($888 million) that the navy will pay for each of seven indigenous frigates that Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai (MDL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, Kolkata (GRSE) have been contracted to build under Project 17A.

However, tonne-for-tonne, the indigenous frigates are cheaper. Each displaces about 5,600 tonnes fully loaded, significantly more muscular than the 4,000-tonne Krivak III. Further, each Project 17A frigate has space for two multi-role helicopters, while the smaller Krivak III embarks just a single Kamov-31 chopper. An extra helicopter provides major advantages in anti-submarine operations and airborne early warning.

Even so, with MDL, GRSE and GSL already stretched to capacity, navy planners are satisfied that Yantar is meeting India’s urgent need for more capital warships. The navy is also pleased with how the Krivak III fleet has performed over time.

New Delhi wanted to build all four Krivak III frigates in GSL under “Make in India”. However, Yantar had already part-built two frigates for the Russian Navy, which then backed away for lack of funds. New Delhi has obliged Moscow by buying them.

The part-built frigates at Yantar are also stalled by a defence embargo that Ukraine imposed on Russia after the latter annexed the Crimea. New Delhi, which has close defence relations with Ukraine, has undertaken to procure and provide Yantar the Zorya turbines that will power them.

The agreed terms stipulate a certain level of Indian-isation for the first two vessels that Yantar will deliver, and a significantly higher level for the next two vessels that are to be built in Goa.

For GSL, building a vessel as complex as a frigate will require upgrading its facilities and skills. However, naval planners say GSL should not take long to learn, having recently undergone the experience of building missile corvettes that are similarly dense in weapons and sensors.

These new Krivak III frigates will have the same engines and armament configuration as Yantar’s last three frigates – INS Teg, Tarkash and Trikand. These include the vaunted BrahMos anti-ship and land attack missile.

Senior naval planners underline the advantages of negotiating a “follow-on” contract, i.e. for vessels similar to those procured earlier. While it took six months to negotiate the contract for the Teg, Tarkash and Trikand, negotiations for the current contract took just 45 days to negotiate and finalise.

The navy’s medium term plans envisage increasing warship strength from the current 140-odd, to 198 warships by 2027. This will require adding 5-6 warships annually.

While some 75 vessels of various types are in the navy’s procurement pipeline, there remains a worrying shortfall of frigates, which are the navy’s workhorses. “We need to have at least 24 frigates. Currently we are ten short”, says a senior admiral.

An opportunistic decision that will certainly help fill the gap while MDL and GRSE build up for 17A.

Also a good risk management move as 17A can get delayed due to many factors.

I see one more benefit, i.e. GSL becoming the third shipyard capable of building frontline warships.

We have also helped out the Russians by saving their embattled investment.

The negatives are, inadequate anti air cover.
 

Indian Jatt

Member
Mar 12, 2018
17
12
mumbai
I think much like China India too needs to build more no of ships in one go like 7 or 12 of same class and distribute the work to at least 2 or 3 different shipyards in order to achieve goal of 12 ships in 5 or 6 years....this will benefit India alot....
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Bali78

Bali78

Senior member
Dec 26, 2017
1,136
1,151
USA

Thats mini-Vishakapatnam class ship. The naval design institute is not learning anything from other shipbuilders.

8 anti-ship missile on this boat with more than 6 thousand tons of weight is wastage of space.
Unless they reserved the space for future additions. Look at the empty space on deck. I hope they are not that stupid to limit the missile load at current level. Even if they are planning to add Nirbhaya/Brahmos later, at least they could have added at least 8 more Baraks. There should be enough defense for a billion dollar ship. It's certainly not adequate with current numbers.

Apart from that, the design does not look stealthy enough compared to other new generation vessels. They could have done better in that aspect.
 

Notsuperstitious

Well-Known member
Dec 31, 2017
411
554
India
Unless they reserved the space for future additions. Look at the empty space on deck. I hope they are not that stupid to limit the missile load at current level. Even if they are planning to add Nirbhaya/Brahmos later, at least they could have added at least 8 more Baraks. There should be enough defense for a billion dollar ship. It's certainly not adequate with current numbers.

Apart from that, the design does not look stealthy enough compared to other new generation vessels. They could have done better in that aspect.

Not sure what is the reason, but Shivalik, karmorta, kolkatta - vishakhapatnam all these classes seem lighty armed for their size. One of the heaviest ships to be classified a frigate - shivalik does not even have torpedo tubes.

We can only guess if it is by design for future upgrades, or design deficiency.