Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Picdelamirand-oil

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Exclu : premier appontage d’un Rafale F4 sur le Charles-de-Gaulle

Exclusive: first landing of a Rafale F4 on the Charles-de-Gaulle
10/12/2021 13:24 | Jean-Marc Tanguy
The F4-standard Dassault Rafale Marine M1 made its first landing on the Charles-de-Gaulle in the Mediterranean yesterday.

Rafale Marine: two innovations to assist in landing
The F4-standard Dassault Rafale Marine M1 made its first landing yesterday on the Charles-de-Gaulle aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. This first landing was carried out with the support of four DGA flight test personnel on board. It was expected because the Dassault Rafale F4 also brings some advantages to the Rafale Marine, which had not been heard of until now. This is particularly the case with two innovations that help with landing.

Automatic mode

From now on, the aircraft can perform its final circuit around the aircraft carrier in automatic mode, which relieves the pilot (alone on board in the naval version) as he enters the "funnel". The Rafale Marine F4 will also be able to touch down almost automatically, since assistants are now also integrated into the flight controls to help the pilot in the last 10 seconds of flight before touching down, even though the pilot will obviously continue to hold his mini-sidearm.

A version 2 for production aircraft

The version 1 tested yesterday should lead to a version 2 for production aircraft. These contributions may also prove decisive in India's choice of whether or not to opt for the Rafale Marine, a process that now seems to be well underway. India has so far reported a requirement for 57 machines.
 
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Bon Plan

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A small country with no significant threats is purchasing 80 Rafale.

India, with 2 big threats, is stuck at 36 Rafale.

@vstol Jockey, @randomradio does Indian aircraft acquisition plan make sense to you?
36 is the first batch.
There will be at least another one, to avoid the small fleet problems as experimented with M2000 in India.
The real question is : will the Indian Rafale fleet stand to 72 (ie 2x36) or 150 (ie 36 + MMRCA2) ?
 

Bon Plan

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Nothing surprising. The Swiss deal was through a tender, so it was gonna be cheaper.
Not only. the whole 80 Rafale for UAE will be built in France, without offset. And you can be sure the UAE Rafale to be the most potent of all time (as M2000-9), so some more goodies to come...
 

Bon Plan

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+ @Bon Plan

Some years back, there were reports that
(a) UAE is not happy with the engines on Rafale, and that they wanted the French to upgrade engines (with better thrust) with no cost to UAE
(b) UAE is not happy with price of Rafale.

I remember reading some interview from someone who matters in UAE that French are being unreasonable with price of Rafale.

So both those are resolved?
in 2011 UAE needed a boosted Rafale : with 2 x 9 tons engines (requesting a deep frame modification), and a new radar (because the prototyp of RBE2 AESA was then made with average T/R modules, so they ask for 13Kw peak power instead of 9.6Kw and Thales studied a new cooling system). Add some Spectra modifications (widest band) and towed decoy.
All of that was so costly the UAE found that irrealistic.

After that we installed some french air force Rafale in UAE. So they had plenty opportunity to see how worked the european T/R modules active radar of the Rafale (in the force since 2013), and how the bird work with "only" 7.5T engines.

So no more need of bigger engine and different radar.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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May I suggest LM to promote the F21 ??? :ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:

The problem is not American Equipment , it is the Conditionalities , the Sermonizing
The Lecturing and Interference

To use an American Phrase
Their policy " changes on a Dime "

Even in case of India , it is the Chinese threat which makes them behave nicely towards us

Otherwise they would put Sanctions in the Name of Human Rights and Democracy just as they did to Saudi Arabia

Chinese growth and Non American weapons such as Rafale and Sukhois are the only things that will bring down their Arrogance
 
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Bon Plan

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The problem is not American Equipment , it is the Conditionalities , the Sermonizing
The Lecturing and Interference

To use an American Phrase
Their policy " changes on a Dime "

Even in case of India , it is the Chinese threat which makes them behave nicely towards us

Otherwise they would put Sanctions in the Name of Human Rights and Democracy just as they did to Saudi Arabia

Chinese growth and Non American weapons such as Rafale and Sukhois are the only things that will bring down their Arrogance
You are right.
Just see how they deal with Turkey on S400 purchase and how they intend to do with India on the same item.
 
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Lolwa

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Any idea on how does the Gripen E's ES/05 and EWS compare to Rafale f4.1/2 spectra and rbe2. Seems like the gripen is the superior fighter in the ew domain.
@randomradio
 

randomradio

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Any idea on how does the Gripen E's ES/05 and EWS compare to Rafale f4.1/2 spectra and rbe2. Seems like the gripen is the superior fighter in the ew domain.
@randomradio

EW suite, hardware-wise they should both be more or less the same in the RF spectrum. Spectra is definitely much more mature and has seen combat, it's much more ahead on the development curve, is better funded and has been fielded in much greater numbers. Plus the Gripen's active antenna placement is pretty standard, on the wingtips, whereas the Rafale's is placed on strategic locations, like the inlets and engine, which are radar hotspots. So the effectiveness of Spectra will be much greater. If the Rafale F4.2 comes with MFA, then only next gen jets will be able to compare to it, all existing Western jets will fall behind.

Gripen's IR sensors for MAWS are better distributed, like the F-35's, but we are yet to see F4's configuration. If it's the same as on F3R, then it will have limited FoV compared to Gripen.

The radar on Rafale will come with GaN, while the Gripen E is still stuck with GaAs. Saab has offered GaN with the Indian deal though.
For now there are no plans to equip the new-generation Gripen E/F with the GaN radar as the GaAs-based Leonardo ES-05 Raven is fully integrated for that requirement, but it could be substituted if a customer specified it.

The Gripen E's current radar is similar to the RBE2 AESA, but with additional FoV. I'd say the Raven sits between F3R and F4, even if the RBE2 is more mature. But the F4's radar is said to have a lot of other functions too, like EW, EA, communication etc. Plus, if the MFA doesn't happen on F4, then it should come in as a future upgrade, giving it a better future roadmap.

So, with the possible exception of MAWS FoV, the Rafale F4's radar and EW suite should be way better than what's on the Gripen E.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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L'INDE TESTERA DÈS JANVIER LA VERSION "MARINE" DU RAFALE

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

INDIA TO TEST THE "MARINE" VERSION OF THE RAFALE FROM JANUARY


Pascal Samama On 16/12/2021 at 6:21 am

On her third trip to India, Florence Parly will meet members of the Indian government to discuss contracts for nearly 160 Rafales, including about fifty for the Navy.

The Aukus pact between the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom has created tensions, but strengthens alliances in the Indo-Pacific region. On Thursday, Florence Parly will travel to India to meet with the Indian Defence Cabinet, comprising the Prime Minister and the Ministers of Defence, External Affairs and Finance.

It will of course be a question of geostrategy. "India has its eyes riveted on Afghanistan, is worried about the Chinese position and has tense relations with Pakistan," explained the Ministry of Defence, adding that this meeting will also be an opportunity to discuss arms contracts, with priority given to the Rafale.

Two contracts are under discussion. One is for 114 Rafales for the Air Force, the second for "26 to 57 Rafales in the Navy version," the Ministry of the Armed Forces told us. These aircraft will start landing tests in January in Goa, on the south-west coast of the country. In 2022, the second Indian aircraft carrier will be operational. A third should be operational by 2025.

Facing Boeing's F-18

For these contracts, Dassault is up against two American manufacturers. Lockheed Martin for the F-35 for the Air Force. For the navy, it will be Boeing with the F-18, for which tests have already taken place in December. No timetable has been given for the conclusion of these negotiations. "The Indian government is the master of the clocks", the Ministry of Defence said, adding that this type of contract requires "many meetings".

France has already concluded a contract with India in 2016 for 36 Rafales, the 33rd of the series of which was delivered in December. The last three will be delivered in 2022.

Florence Parly is also expected to discuss other armament issues. One of them will be submarines. The Indian government intends to acquire 6 nuclear attack submarines. Naval Group is in the running with the Barracuda. The competition will be tough. If the Americans do not seem to be in the picture, the Frenchman has four rivals: the Spanish Navantia, the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), the Russian Rubin and the Korean Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering.

India is already a customer of Naval Group with an order for six Scorpene class submarines, the third of which has just been delivered.
 

A Person

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What is the Difference between
Rafale F 4 and India Specific Enhancements
In our role as industrial architect, we will be responsible for implementing innovative connectivity solutions to optimize the effectiveness of our aircraft in networked combat (new satellite and intra-patrol links, communication server, software defined radio).
New functions will also be developed to improve the aircraft’s capabilities (upgrades to the radar sensors and front sector optronics, helmet-mounted display capabilities), and new weapons will be integrated (Mica NG air-to-air missile and 1,000-kg AASM Air-to-Ground Modular Weapon).
Lastly, with regard to availability, we are working under a through-life support contract which will become more “top-down” under the authority of the aircraft manufacturer. F4 will include a new Prognosis and Diagnostic Aid System introducing predictive maintenance capabilities. Other maintenance optimization features are scheduled, particularly with solutions based on Big Data and artificial intelligence. Lastly, the Rafale will be equipped with a new engine control unit.
Of course, this is not an exhaustive or very detailed list. But you can compare and contrast with the ISE.

Obviously, several of the India-Specific Enhancements are, well, India-specific. France is obviously not especially concerned about operating from Leh airport, so the high altitude cold start kit from the ISE is not part of F4. Likewise, France doesn't use Israeli SPICE bombs, or Litening pod, or X-Guard towed decoys, etc. The HMD is the Thales Visionix Scorpion rather than the Rafael Targo II used by India and Qatar.

For the radar and OSF upgrades, it is quite possible that this includes the upgrades from the ISE. Something they do not talk about in this press release, but that was announced by the Ministry of Defense, are upgrades to the SPECTRA self-protection suite, with notably a move to GaN technology.