Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Picdelamirand-oil

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La Direction générale de l’armement discute d’un projet d’avion « spatial » avec Dassault Aviation

The Directorate General of Armaments is discussing a "space" aircraft project with Dassault Aviation
BY LAURENT LAGNEAU - 24 NOVEMBER 2021


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In October 2019, General Philippe Lavigne, then Chief of Staff of the French Air & Space Force [AAE], estimated that the question of a "space drone", like the American X-37B, capable of remaining in orbit for several hundred days, would "certainly" end up being "addressed one day". And it was by the deputies Jean-Louis Thériot and Benjamin Grivaux, in their report on the consequences of the "covid" crisis on the Defence Technological and Industrial Base [DTIB], published a few months later.

Indeed, the two parliamentarians reported that, among its priorities, the new Space Command [CoE] was considering an "X-37B-type space shuttle, a segment in which Dassault has developed a Space Rider and Airbus a Space Tug". He suggested that such a project could benefit from the government's economic recovery plan, which was then being drawn up. In the end, this did not happen...

In Germany, however, the idea of developing a 'space drone' did gain ground. And last July, the young company Polaris Raumflugzeuge, created in the wake of the Centre for Aeronautics and Astronautics [Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt, or DLR], obtained a - modest - 250,000-euro contract from the German Ministry of Defence to study the possible military applications of its 'Aurora' spaceplane, within the framework of its RDRS [Rapid Deployable Reconnaissance System] programme.

However, as Mr Thiérot and Mr Grivaux pointed out, there is no lack of ambition on the French side. Notably at Dassault Aviation, whose CEO, Éric Trappier, has been defending the development of a "space plane" for some time. Moreover, the manufacturer is studying reusable space transport to launch satellites into low orbit, via the VEHRA project [Airborne Reusable Hypersonic Vehicle].

"Whoever controls space will control what is below. We will have to be in space with space planes in 15 to 20 years' time," he said in November 2018 before the Centraliens association. "If we manoeuvre in space, Dassault has a brick through its skills to bring to any prime contractor," he added.

More recently, in an interview given to the daily Les Echos, Mr. Trappier had put this subject back on the table. "What makes a fighter plane strong is its ability to detect and fire first. This implies being as discreet as possible and seeing further than the adversary, particularly in the face of increasingly effective anti-aircraft defences. And all this in permanent connection with the different military components, as well as with the authorities, who must know what is happening before giving the order to fire. [...] But if we look ahead," he continued, "this presupposes a spatial ambition. And then, one day, we will have to think about a space plane," he said last February.

Will such a project become a reality? In any case, the Directorate General of Armaments [DGA] is discussing it with Dassault Aviation. This is what Emmanuel Chiva, the director of the Defence Innovation Agency [AID], told La Tribune when asked about this space plane project.

"We are discussing with Dassault Aviation and the DGA, in particular the SASD [Defence Systems Architecture Department]. We also have projects with companies that we support. This is the case with Unseenlabs and Cailabs," Chiva replied.

The SASD [formerly the Future Systems Preparation and Architecture Service] is responsible for leading "DGA's actions in preparing for the future in technical and operational fields" and conducting "the preparation of armament operations".

Mr Chiva's reply suggests that the companies Cailabs and Unseenlabs would be involved in these discussions. Cailabs, a DeepTech company, owns a set of disruptive technologies that are the subject of 19 patent families. It has developed a technology that increases the performance of various defence applications [communications, LIDAR, etc.]. The second company specialises in the interception of radio frequency signals from space.
 
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randomradio

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La Direction générale de l’armement discute d’un projet d’avion « spatial » avec Dassault Aviation

The Directorate General of Armaments is discussing a "space" aircraft project with Dassault Aviation
BY LAURENT LAGNEAU - 24 NOVEMBER 2021




In October 2019, General Philippe Lavigne, then Chief of Staff of the French Air & Space Force [AAE], estimated that the question of a "space drone", like the American X-37B, capable of remaining in orbit for several hundred days, would "certainly" end up being "addressed one day". And it was by the deputies Jean-Louis Thériot and Benjamin Grivaux, in their report on the consequences of the "covid" crisis on the Defence Technological and Industrial Base [DTIB], published a few months later.

Indeed, the two parliamentarians reported that, among its priorities, the new Space Command [CoE] was considering an "X-37B-type space shuttle, a segment in which Dassault has developed a Space Rider and Airbus a Space Tug". He suggested that such a project could benefit from the government's economic recovery plan, which was then being drawn up. In the end, this did not happen...

In Germany, however, the idea of developing a 'space drone' did gain ground. And last July, the young company Polaris Raumflugzeuge, created in the wake of the Centre for Aeronautics and Astronautics [Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt, or DLR], obtained a - modest - 250,000-euro contract from the German Ministry of Defence to study the possible military applications of its 'Aurora' spaceplane, within the framework of its RDRS [Rapid Deployable Reconnaissance System] programme.

However, as Mr Thiérot and Mr Grivaux pointed out, there is no lack of ambition on the French side. Notably at Dassault Aviation, whose CEO, Éric Trappier, has been defending the development of a "space plane" for some time. Moreover, the manufacturer is studying reusable space transport to launch satellites into low orbit, via the VEHRA project [Airborne Reusable Hypersonic Vehicle].

"Whoever controls space will control what is below. We will have to be in space with space planes in 15 to 20 years' time," he said in November 2018 before the Centraliens association. "If we manoeuvre in space, Dassault has a brick through its skills to bring to any prime contractor," he added.

More recently, in an interview given to the daily Les Echos, Mr. Trappier had put this subject back on the table. "What makes a fighter plane strong is its ability to detect and fire first. This implies being as discreet as possible and seeing further than the adversary, particularly in the face of increasingly effective anti-aircraft defences. And all this in permanent connection with the different military components, as well as with the authorities, who must know what is happening before giving the order to fire. [...] But if we look ahead," he continued, "this presupposes a spatial ambition. And then, one day, we will have to think about a space plane," he said last February.

Will such a project become a reality? In any case, the Directorate General of Armaments [DGA] is discussing it with Dassault Aviation. This is what Emmanuel Chiva, the director of the Defence Innovation Agency [AID], told La Tribune when asked about this space plane project.

"We are discussing with Dassault Aviation and the DGA, in particular the SASD [Defence Systems Architecture Department]. We also have projects with companies that we support. This is the case with Unseenlabs and Cailabs," Chiva replied.

The SASD [formerly the Future Systems Preparation and Architecture Service] is responsible for leading "DGA's actions in preparing for the future in technical and operational fields" and conducting "the preparation of armament operations".

Mr Chiva's reply suggests that the companies Cailabs and Unseenlabs would be involved in these discussions. Cailabs, a DeepTech company, owns a set of disruptive technologies that are the subject of 19 patent families. It has developed a technology that increases the performance of various defence applications [communications, LIDAR, etc.]. The second company specialises in the interception of radio frequency signals from space.

Something India could be interested in rather than FCAS, Tempest, NGAD etc.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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So I have to be modest in my triumph.
I'll tell you a secret: this contract is better than a Swiss contract for Dassault! ;)

Especially since our American friends had told us that the Rafale could not win when there was an F-35 offer from the US.... and I thought that the US was negotiating with the UAE for a sale of 50 F-35s. :ROFLMAO:
 

sunstersun

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The F-35 sale is on ice of course UAE was snap up Rafales. Pic is getting so old with his russian trolling tactics. He fully knows the political change in the deal lol.

It's better than the Typhoon no doubt.

Then again it's not weird as gulf countries buy these things as cosmetic toys as much as a serious plan.

One gulf country has F-18s, F-15's, Typhoons and Rafales....

Anyways, the reason why it's a modest success is he's scared of the giant disaster in a week or so.
 

randomradio

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A small country with no significant threats is purchasing 80 Rafale.

India, with 2 big threats, is stuck at 36 Rafale.

@vstol Jockey, @randomradio does Indian aircraft acquisition plan make sense to you?

India's deals include license production, so we need to take our time with that. If it's just import, it can be done very quickly, like how we signed the Rafale GTG in just 1.5 years. And the delay also happened because we were in drought season, or the deal would have been signed even earlier.

Furthermore, since we have enemies, we need to make more sound purchases compared to countries that do not have an equivalent enemy, which can further delay a project.

Lastly, we do not have UAE's deep pockets yet.
I'll tell you a secret: this contract is better than a Swiss contract for Dassault! ;)

Nothing surprising. The Swiss deal was through a tender, so it was gonna be cheaper.
 

jk007

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So I have to be modest in my triumph.
I'll tell you a secret: this contract is better than a Swiss contract for Dassault! ;)

Especially since our American friends had told us that the Rafale could not win when there was an F-35 offer from the US.... and I thought that the US was negotiating with the UAE for a sale of 50 F-35s. :ROFLMAO:
+ @Bon Plan

Some years back, there were reports that
(a) UAE is not happy with the engines on Rafale, and that they wanted the French to upgrade engines (with better thrust) with no cost to UAE
(b) UAE is not happy with price of Rafale.

I remember reading some interview from someone who matters in UAE that French are being unreasonable with price of Rafale.

So both those are resolved?
 

A Person

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Anyways, the reason why it's a modest success is he's scared of the giant disaster in a week or so.
You think of Finland? Won't be a disaster. We all already know it's the F-35.

I mean just look at the Finnish press. Latest articles are about how Norway and Switzerland don't compute costs the same way Finland does, so the F-35 operating costs will still fit in the budget. Why do they even say that, unless the choice was made already? We know.

But it doesn't matter because the only strategic value of Finland for France would be to start building up a true European defense -- defense of Europe by Europe, instead of defense of Europe by Uncle Sam which is what nearly everyone else in Europe wants. And since that project has been killed by Germany, Finland is now irrelevant. What matters to France is securing the link to its overseas, that means notably the Eastern Mediterranean (Greece, Egypt, + Croatia as a bonus), the Red Sea/Persian Gulf area (Egypt, Emirates, Qatar), the Indian Ocean (India), and from there the Pacific (was Australia through sub deal, now looking at Indonesia instead).

Finland will not be a disaster. Just another fully expected disappointment.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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+ @Bon Plan

Some years back, there were reports that
(a) UAE is not happy with the engines on Rafale, and that they wanted the French to upgrade engines (with better thrust) with no cost to UAE
(b) UAE is not happy with price of Rafale.

I remember reading some interview from someone who matters in UAE that French are being unreasonable with price of Rafale.

So both those are resolved?
Both were just bullshit:
It is true that the UAE wanted more than the proposed state of the Rafale, but they would not have spent many months negotiating if they had not seen a clear difference with the M2000.
As for the financing of the additional improvements, the agreement in the end was between those that France had to finance because they were inevitable and those that the UAE had to finance because they were too specific.
But the real stumbling block was the price for buying back the M2000.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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Dec 4, 2017
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India's deals include license production, so we need to take our time with that. If it's just import, it can be done very quickly, like how we signed the Rafale GTG in just 1.5 years. And the delay also happened because we were in drought season, or the deal would have been signed even earlier.

Furthermore, since we have enemies, we need to make more sound purchases compared to countries that do not have an equivalent enemy, which can further delay a project.

Lastly, we do not have UAE's deep pockets yet.


Nothing surprising. The Swiss deal was through a tender, so it was gonna be cheaper.

I have a feeling that we will buy just 36 or 54 more OFF the Shelf , SCRAP MRFA acquisition , AND
Go for SU 75

By the Way SUKHOI and MIG are becoming One Company


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