Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Tatvamasi

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New IAF chief looks beyond 36 additional Rafale jets, wants 114 multi role fighter aircraft


New Delhi: Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal V.R. Chaudhari Tuesday strongly pitched for 114 Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA), under the Make in India initiative, rather than opting for another 36 Rafale fighter jets.

The IAF chief also made it clear that it would be wrong to assume that possessing the S-400 air defence system, the first unit of which will be inducted later this year, would mean that the force can cut down on its acute need of fighters, since offensive and defensive capability cannot be compared.

He further argued that despite all the planned acquisition, including that of 114 MRFA, 83 Light Combat Aircraft Mk1A and the indigenous 5th generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), the IAF will not be able to meet its target of 42 squadrons over the next 10-15 years.

The IAF chief explained that the next decade will see the phasing out of four squadrons of the MiG 21 Bison, Jaguar deep penetration aircraft, Mirage 2000 and the MiG 29s.

“We have catered for this. The acquisition plan is based on the 83 LCA, deliveries of which will commence from 2024. We are fully committed to the AMCA programme, for which an aggressive timeline has been set by the DRDO… We plan to start inducting the AMCA by early years of next decade,” he said responding to a query by ThePrint during his annual press conference ahead of the Air Force Day on 8 October.

The IAF chief, who took over last week, added, “However, to mitigate the gap of fighter squadrons and combat capability, the RFI (Request for Information) for 114 MRFA was mooted, for which responses have been received. Now we are waiting to move the case up further.”

Responding to another question, the IAF chief said squadrons of unmanned aircraft (futuristic armed drones) are different from that of the fighters.

Asked specifically if this meant that the IAF was ruling out the possibility of procuring additional 36 Rafale fighter jets, ACM Chaudhari said the Rafale is also one of the contenders.

“We are happy with the performance of the aircraft but I would not like to comment on whether it will be the main contender or not for the MRFA,” he said.

ACM Chaudhari comments come exactly a year after his predecessor, Air Chief Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria, had indicated for the first time officially that the decision to buy two more squadrons of Rafale fighter jets was under consideration.

The new IAF chief also said that the Service is looking at having 5th generation and even 6th generation technology on board the MRFA in terms of modern weapons and Artificial Intelligence.

“In MRFA, most of the contenders have the 4.5 generation technology. One of the key features that we are seeking is the ability to integrate 5th and 6th generation technology. It will be a Make in India model,” he said.

Rafale the front runner even for MRFA​

Sources in the defence and security establishment said that Rafale is likely to be the front runner even if the MRFA competition is held because the IAF is not looking at having multiple types of aircraft.

They said that a final decision would be taken by the government on whether to go in for a direct deal with the French or go with the IAF’s plan with competition for MRFA.

Sources have said that the timeline for the MRFA competition will be much shorter than the one for Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), since a majority of the aircraft in contention have already undergone various trials in the past.

Sources said that one thing is clear that the IAF is looking beyond just 36 additional Rafale, which will take it up to four squadrons of the aircraft.

But the IAF needs more numbers to beef up its squadron strength, since the last time the force had 42 squadrons was in 2002.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Terminal effectiveness
Provided by high final dive and tandem warhead precursor charge and a large explosive/kinetic energy penetrator. Warhead detonation options include airbust, impact and penetrative modes





I know, but it's pretty general information. There's no information out there about it for comparison with other bunker busters. Like how many SCALPs may be needed to compare with a MOP.

There was talk of using high speed missiles for bunker busting in India. Probably 'cause bunkers are deeper than what existing weapons can manage right now.
 

randomradio

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New IAF chief looks beyond 36 additional Rafale jets, wants 114 multi role fighter aircraft


New Delhi: Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal V.R. Chaudhari Tuesday strongly pitched for 114 Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA), under the Make in India initiative, rather than opting for another 36 Rafale fighter jets.

The IAF chief also made it clear that it would be wrong to assume that possessing the S-400 air defence system, the first unit of which will be inducted later this year, would mean that the force can cut down on its acute need of fighters, since offensive and defensive capability cannot be compared.

He further argued that despite all the planned acquisition, including that of 114 MRFA, 83 Light Combat Aircraft Mk1A and the indigenous 5th generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), the IAF will not be able to meet its target of 42 squadrons over the next 10-15 years.

The IAF chief explained that the next decade will see the phasing out of four squadrons of the MiG 21 Bison, Jaguar deep penetration aircraft, Mirage 2000 and the MiG 29s.

“We have catered for this. The acquisition plan is based on the 83 LCA, deliveries of which will commence from 2024. We are fully committed to the AMCA programme, for which an aggressive timeline has been set by the DRDO… We plan to start inducting the AMCA by early years of next decade,” he said responding to a query by ThePrint during his annual press conference ahead of the Air Force Day on 8 October.

The IAF chief, who took over last week, added, “However, to mitigate the gap of fighter squadrons and combat capability, the RFI (Request for Information) for 114 MRFA was mooted, for which responses have been received. Now we are waiting to move the case up further.”

Responding to another question, the IAF chief said squadrons of unmanned aircraft (futuristic armed drones) are different from that of the fighters.

Asked specifically if this meant that the IAF was ruling out the possibility of procuring additional 36 Rafale fighter jets, ACM Chaudhari said the Rafale is also one of the contenders.

“We are happy with the performance of the aircraft but I would not like to comment on whether it will be the main contender or not for the MRFA,” he said.

ACM Chaudhari comments come exactly a year after his predecessor, Air Chief Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria, had indicated for the first time officially that the decision to buy two more squadrons of Rafale fighter jets was under consideration.

The new IAF chief also said that the Service is looking at having 5th generation and even 6th generation technology on board the MRFA in terms of modern weapons and Artificial Intelligence.

“In MRFA, most of the contenders have the 4.5 generation technology. One of the key features that we are seeking is the ability to integrate 5th and 6th generation technology. It will be a Make in India model,” he said.

Rafale the front runner even for MRFA​

Sources in the defence and security establishment said that Rafale is likely to be the front runner even if the MRFA competition is held because the IAF is not looking at having multiple types of aircraft.

They said that a final decision would be taken by the government on whether to go in for a direct deal with the French or go with the IAF’s plan with competition for MRFA.

Sources have said that the timeline for the MRFA competition will be much shorter than the one for Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), since a majority of the aircraft in contention have already undergone various trials in the past.

Sources said that one thing is clear that the IAF is looking beyond just 36 additional Rafale, which will take it up to four squadrons of the aircraft.

But the IAF needs more numbers to beef up its squadron strength, since the last time the force had 42 squadrons was in 2002.

Yep. This is the official IAF stand, they want the 114-jet tender, and not get suckered into buying just 36 more and have future orders scuttled in the 2030s. If the IAF agrees to 36 more without MRFA, then they risk losing MRFA completely and our dreams of getting to 42 squadrons between 2037 and 2042 will get pushed even further.

A 114-jet contract by 2026 would mean we will get all potential 171 jets in just 13 years from the date of signature. Perhaps even faster.
 
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Hydra

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New IAF chief looks beyond 36 additional Rafale jets, wants 114 multi role fighter aircraft


New Delhi: Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal V.R. Chaudhari Tuesday strongly pitched for 114 Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA), under the Make in India initiative, rather than opting for another 36 Rafale fighter jets.

The IAF chief also made it clear that it would be wrong to assume that possessing the S-400 air defence system, the first unit of which will be inducted later this year, would mean that the force can cut down on its acute need of fighters, since offensive and defensive capability cannot be compared.

He further argued that despite all the planned acquisition, including that of 114 MRFA, 83 Light Combat Aircraft Mk1A and the indigenous 5th generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), the IAF will not be able to meet its target of 42 squadrons over the next 10-15 years.

The IAF chief explained that the next decade will see the phasing out of four squadrons of the MiG 21 Bison, Jaguar deep penetration aircraft, Mirage 2000 and the MiG 29s.

“We have catered for this. The acquisition plan is based on the 83 LCA, deliveries of which will commence from 2024. We are fully committed to the AMCA programme, for which an aggressive timeline has been set by the DRDO… We plan to start inducting the AMCA by early years of next decade,” he said responding to a query by ThePrint during his annual press conference ahead of the Air Force Day on 8 October.

The IAF chief, who took over last week, added, “However, to mitigate the gap of fighter squadrons and combat capability, the RFI (Request for Information) for 114 MRFA was mooted, for which responses have been received. Now we are waiting to move the case up further.”

Responding to another question, the IAF chief said squadrons of unmanned aircraft (futuristic armed drones) are different from that of the fighters.

Asked specifically if this meant that the IAF was ruling out the possibility of procuring additional 36 Rafale fighter jets, ACM Chaudhari said the Rafale is also one of the contenders.

“We are happy with the performance of the aircraft but I would not like to comment on whether it will be the main contender or not for the MRFA,” he said.

ACM Chaudhari comments come exactly a year after his predecessor, Air Chief Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria, had indicated for the first time officially that the decision to buy two more squadrons of Rafale fighter jets was under consideration.

The new IAF chief also said that the Service is looking at having 5th generation and even 6th generation technology on board the MRFA in terms of modern weapons and Artificial Intelligence.

“In MRFA, most of the contenders have the 4.5 generation technology. One of the key features that we are seeking is the ability to integrate 5th and 6th generation technology. It will be a Make in India model,” he said.

Rafale the front runner even for MRFA​

Sources in the defence and security establishment said that Rafale is likely to be the front runner even if the MRFA competition is held because the IAF is not looking at having multiple types of aircraft.

They said that a final decision would be taken by the government on whether to go in for a direct deal with the French or go with the IAF’s plan with competition for MRFA.

Sources have said that the timeline for the MRFA competition will be much shorter than the one for Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), since a majority of the aircraft in contention have already undergone various trials in the past.

Sources said that one thing is clear that the IAF is looking beyond just 36 additional Rafale, which will take it up to four squadrons of the aircraft.

But the IAF needs more numbers to beef up its squadron strength, since the last time the force had 42 squadrons was in 2002.
IAF chief didn't specifying that they want Rafale, any aircraft with gen 5 technology will be preferred. Only USA has fielded a true gen 5 aircraft, i sense they are inclining towards a US fighter.
 

kor4116

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IAF chief didn't specifying that they want Rafale, any aircraft with gen 5 technology will be preferred. Only USA has fielded a true gen 5 aircraft, i sense they are inclining towards a US fighter.
MRFA is a competition in which various fighters participate. Even if the Air Force Chief of Staff wants Rafale, he cannot say that he publicly supports a specific fighter in his position for the smooth progress of the fighter selection project. Such remarks would undermine the neutrality of competition. Is that possible in India? And the overseas purchase of fifth-generation fighters may threaten the development of domestic AMCA fighters. The predecessor also emphasized that.
Air Chief Backs Indigenous 5th Generation Jet, Says No Plan To Import
 

Hydra

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MRFA is a competition in which various fighters participate. Even if the Air Force Chief of Staff wants Rafale, he cannot say that he publicly supports a specific fighter in his position for the smooth progress of the fighter selection project. Such remarks would undermine the neutrality of competition. Is that possible in India? And the overseas purchase of fifth-generation fighters may threaten the development of domestic AMCA fighters. The predecessor also emphasized that.
Air Chief Backs Indigenous 5th Generation Jet, Says No Plan To Import
He's not talking about a true gen 5 fighter in mmrca2, he is talking about a fighter with gen 5 technology. Logically speaking a country fielded two gen 5 fighter can incorporate gen 5 tech inside a non stealth fighter. No matter what i or any other rafale fan boys thinking, USA gen 5 tech must be superior to everyone else.
 

randomradio

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He's not talking about a true gen 5 fighter in mmrca2, he is talking about a fighter with gen 5 technology. Logically speaking a country fielded two gen 5 fighter can incorporate gen 5 tech inside a non stealth fighter. No matter what i or any other rafale fan boys thinking, USA gen 5 tech must be superior to everyone else.

When you have something better, you won't put the same thing in something older and dilute the value of something that's better.

The IAF Chief's message is for those who want to sell junk thinking pressure can be applied later on to choose said junk.

Anyway, all three Teens will be rejected because of the airframe and lack of future, not the avionics.
 

Ashwin

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By Aatish Pillai
 

randomradio

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Hydra

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Doing both is the best. ;)

But it's obvious anything beyond 36 without local production and ToT is pointless to the IAF. 72 jets will become unnecessarily expensive, we will have to go to Dassault for every little thing, a company located in a foreign country, outside the ambit of our executive and judicial system.
If both happens, then maintaining first 72 origin jets wont costs us much. And asper original plan, we are supposed to order 189 jet i think. So 72+114=186 will satisfy our initial requirment.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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If both happens, then maintaining first 72 origin jets wont costs us much. And asper original plan, we are supposed to order 189 jet i think. So 72+114=186 will satisfy our initial requirment.

The question is that Whether we will buy More F 3 or as usual we are waiting for
More Advanced F 4 version

In the MMRCA 2.0 RFP , the first 18 planes will be in Fly Away Condition

So we can straight away order 18 More F 3 version , At least , if Not 36 since we want F 4 version

And the Assembly Line can be for F 4 version

By the way IF AMBANI is again involved
This deal will become FUBAR , we will get nothing
 

Hydra

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The question is that Whether we will buy More F 3 or as usual we are waiting for
More Advanced F 4 version

In the MMRCA 2.0 RFP , the first 18 planes will be in Fly Away Condition

So we can straight away order 18 More F 3 version , At least , if Not 36 since we want F 4 version

And the Assembly Line can be for F 4 version

By the way IF AMBANI is again involved
This deal will become FUBAR , we will get nothing
Grab what is available now in the market, thats the best option for us now. Reason is squadron shot fall . Go for 36 more F3R then MMRCA2. If rafale got selected in MMRCA2, it should be f4 version.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Rafale deliveries to India ahead of schedule, says French Ambassador Lenain

Published on: Oct 8, 2021, 8:30 PM IST

Speaking on the sidelines of the fourth edition of Indo-French Investment Conclave here, organised by the Indo-French Chamber of Commerce & Industry (IFCCI), Emmanuel Lenain said firms belonging to the European country have invested over 10 Billion Euros in India providing employment to 2.50 lakh Indians.


Hyderabad: Aerospace major Dassault Aviation is expected to deliver all 36 Rafale jets well before the schedule despite lockdown for a few days to contain the spread of COVID-19 in France, French Ambassador to India Emmanuel Lenain said on Friday.

Speaking on the sidelines of the fourth edition of Indo-French Investment Conclave here, organised by the Indo-French Chamber of Commerce & Industry (IFCCI), Lenain said firms belonging to the European country have invested over 10 Billion Euros in India providing employment to 2.50 lakh Indians.

"It ( delivery of aircraft) will be ahead of the schedule. We are very proud of that. In spite of Covid it has not been disturbed at all on the contrary," the envoy told PTI.

India had signed an inter-governmental agreement with France in September 2016 for the procurement of 36 Rafale fighter jets at a cost of around Rs 58,000 crore.

The first batch of five Rafale jets arrived in India on July 29 last year

"The factory producing Rafale was closed (during lockdown). We had a commitment to India. After the lockdown teams worked extra shifts working nights and weekends to make sure that these planes were delivered on time. And so right now Dassault has delivered to India 29 and 26 have already been ferried to India," he said.

Describing the recent developments in Afghanistan as "worrying" , the Ambassador said some of the countries including France have asked the Taliban regime to allow free flow of humanitarian assistance to the beleaguered country besides not to provide shelter for terrorists.
"Today they have not fulfilled any and that is deeply worrying. They can't ask us any form of recognition until they fulfilled some of these commitments," he further said.

On the Indo-French trade, the Ambassador said the trade volumes are not big as most of the companies from his country prefer investing in India rather than exporting.

"We are doing local investment a lot. So far French companies have invested more than 10 Billion Euros in India and it is going very fast and they are employing 250,000 Indians," he explained.

In 2020, the India-France bilateral trade stood at 9.04 billion euros (-21.99 per cent) as compared to the previous year. India's exports to France were valued at 4.80 billion euros, down by 22.9 per cent during this period. Indian imports from France also decreased by 20.95 per cent to 4.23 billion euros, according to Indian official figures.
 

Bon Plan

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@Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @vstol Jockey

I have a question on simulators. How good are Rafale simulators?

For ex: Can a pilot (who passed intermediate jet trainer course) learn 80% of Rafale skills in simulator thereby reducing the time of Rafale, and reducing wear and tear?

What all can a pilot learn in simulator Vs flying the actual Rafale?
Swiss top brass just said F35 simulators are marvellous. So marvellous that a lost liner can be intercepted by F35 simulator :sneaky:
 

Bon Plan

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IAF chief didn't specifying that they want Rafale, any aircraft with gen 5 technology will be preferred. Only USA has fielded a true gen 5 aircraft, i sense they are inclining towards a US fighter.
Indeed. It's the F22.
F35 fails short on supercruise and F16 like agility, so not a true 5th gen.
 

Hydra

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Indeed. It's the F22.
F35 fails short on supercruise and F16 like agility, so not a true 5th gen.
Asper USA , fifth gen fighter is basically a fourth gen fighter with stealth shaping & stealth treatment on its surface. By that standard f35 is a definitely a gen 5 fighter.