Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Picdelamirand-oil

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smestarz

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They have the Saudi and Qataris to pay for them
Egypt received yesterday the last of the single-seaters it had ordered. They had ordered 24 Rafale in total, 16 DM (twin seaters) of which 6 have been received, and 8 EM (single seaters), all received now. Following Dassault's conventions, M stands for Maṣr, the Arabic name for Egypt, E for Export and D for dual. Egypt has an option for 12 more, but have difficulties raising the money needed to purchase them.
 

GuardianRED

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Dec 2, 2017
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In the top video the aircraft is maintaing 16alpha and a speed of about 126 kts and in the lower one it is 132kts for 16 alpha. the night landing is being done at a higher weight.

Night carrier landing in Rafale

night deck of a marine gust on the Charles de gaulle aircraft carrier. This is not a mass sport and when the night is so dark.

Welcome aboard the rafale marine
 

ashkum2278

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Dec 4, 2017
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WHAT, RAFALE AS A NUCLEAR DELIVERY SYSTEM?

Indian Express first carried a story Sept 18, 2016 justifying the purchase of 36 Rafales announced in Paris by PM Narendra Modi 17 months earlier because of its supposedly strategic role as nuclear weapon delivery system. On Nov 27 instant, Economic Times in its Blogs carried a piece saying much the same thing — except it dealt, in the main, with the theme of the Rafale procurement process being “clumsy” without it being “corrupt”.



True, Rafale is tasked by the French Air Force for the N-role, but the distance it has to negotiate to Moscow isn't relatively much, being the same that Mirage V was meant to do on a one-way suicide mission because that’s all its range permitted at a time in the mid- to late 1960s when France had little else to make its ‘force de frappe’ credible. Rafale is different in that it has the range to go to Moscow and back and in European conditions may be considered “strategic”, but it cannot be so labeled in Indian conditions unless all that the Modi govt has in mind for its use is Pakistan because, for certain, it can perform no useful strategic function against China. But was the Rafale buy at the unit cost of some $250 million — clean i.e., w/o any weapon — merited just for N-delivery against Pakistani targets when the IAF has the Jaguar low level strike aircraft for this job, and the Su-30MKI, which with aerial tankers and buddy refuellers for the last leg, for strategic nuclear bombardment deep inside China?



The Su-30MKI — a medium range air superiority/air dominance combat aircraft, I have long argued is not a genuine answer for long range nuclear targeting, whence the desperate need for a genuine high-alt strategic bomber, the Tu-160 Blackjack, that the Russians were always ready to lease to India, as a manned recall-able option in the triad. It was a case I had made to CAS Charley Browne some years back in person and retailed in ‘Why India is Not a Great Power (Yet). Browne shot it down saying that while lease costs were fine, the operating costs were too high and would be a drain on IAF’s resources. (For the cost figures, etc. refer above book.) But a Rafale carrying N-weapons is economical? This is an example of short-sighted financial resources management.



The nuclear role conjured up for the Rafale, it’d appear, was an afterthought that some not so bright denizen of the PMO thought up and purveyed through the media, because of the flak Modi was receiving for the hasty, ill thought-out Rafale deal.



The fact is Rafale may barely survive the AD environment over Pakistan. Across Tibet, it is a dead duck, and will have even less chance anywhere deeper in China mainland where the layered AD defence is so intense the US Air Force feels it will have to deploy its full might of the B-2s to register success.



And even then, it will not do much good. Because China PLAAF now has operational a few photonic or quantum radars — with these replacing the older surveillance, tracking, and targeting radars in layers doing frontline duty. Incidentally, Russia and China have a massive lead in quantum hardware — communications, radars, etc. over the US, and the word is out that the US’ latest lemon F-35, inclusive of its on-board radar, is already defunct because it has been mapped out by the Russian and Chinese photonic radar. Wonder, if that’s the reason why the US is growingly keen about selling the completely useless F-35 to the IAF and has confidence the Indian govt can be prevailed upon to buy it. So much for India’s reputation for buying junk.



Quantum radars, in any case, means definite death for so-called stealth aircraft. In any case, stealth is a mis-used word because even without quantum radars, the stealthiest of the present day aircraft can be easily detected by low frequency radars — the old World War Two kind!



And finally if Rafale is actually being considered as a nuclear delivery platform, what’s the talk that IAF is exploring acquiring a handful of the latest version of the Backfire Tu-22M3 from Russia — which makes more sense than Rafale but is not as good an option as the Tu-160 — all about?

What, Rafale as a nuclear delivery system?!
 

smestarz

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Nov 30, 2017
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NAK Browne was one of the guy who was fixing the Rafale deal, so how could he go against his own interest?
When the Cost Nego committee found the numbers given by Dassault were not complete, it was NAK Browne who gave those figures (thus the figures were assumed) and so Rafale got L1, there was a report sometime back that if the actual figures of Rafale and Eurofighter were given then Rafale would not be L1. The rest as we say us history

WHAT, RAFALE AS A NUCLEAR DELIVERY SYSTEM?

Indian Express first carried a story Sept 18, 2016 justifying the purchase of 36 Rafales announced in Paris by PM Narendra Modi 17 months earlier because of its supposedly strategic role as nuclear weapon delivery system. On Nov 27 instant, Economic Times in its Blogs carried a piece saying much the same thing — except it dealt, in the main, with the theme of the Rafale procurement process being “clumsy” without it being “corrupt”.



True, Rafale is tasked by the French Air Force for the N-role, but the distance it has to negotiate to Moscow isn't relatively much, being the same that Mirage V was meant to do on a one-way suicide mission because that’s all its range permitted at a time in the mid- to late 1960s when France had little else to make its ‘force de frappe’ credible. Rafale is different in that it has the range to go to Moscow and back and in European conditions may be considered “strategic”, but it cannot be so labeled in Indian conditions unless all that the Modi govt has in mind for its use is Pakistan because, for certain, it can perform no useful strategic function against China. But was the Rafale buy at the unit cost of some $250 million — clean i.e., w/o any weapon — merited just for N-delivery against Pakistani targets when the IAF has the Jaguar low level strike aircraft for this job, and the Su-30MKI, which with aerial tankers and buddy refuellers for the last leg, for strategic nuclear bombardment deep inside China?



The Su-30MKI — a medium range air superiority/air dominance combat aircraft, I have long argued is not a genuine answer for long range nuclear targeting, whence the desperate need for a genuine high-alt strategic bomber, the Tu-160 Blackjack, that the Russians were always ready to lease to India, as a manned recall-able option in the triad. It was a case I had made to CAS Charley Browne some years back in person and retailed in ‘Why India is Not a Great Power (Yet). Browne shot it down saying that while lease costs were fine, the operating costs were too high and would be a drain on IAF’s resources. (For the cost figures, etc. refer above book.) But a Rafale carrying N-weapons is economical? This is an example of short-sighted financial resources management.



The nuclear role conjured up for the Rafale, it’d appear, was an afterthought that some not so bright denizen of the PMO thought up and purveyed through the media, because of the flak Modi was receiving for the hasty, ill thought-out Rafale deal.



The fact is Rafale may barely survive the AD environment over Pakistan. Across Tibet, it is a dead duck, and will have even less chance anywhere deeper in China mainland where the layered AD defence is so intense the US Air Force feels it will have to deploy its full might of the B-2s to register success.



And even then, it will not do much good. Because China PLAAF now has operational a few photonic or quantum radars — with these replacing the older surveillance, tracking, and targeting radars in layers doing frontline duty. Incidentally, Russia and China have a massive lead in quantum hardware — communications, radars, etc. over the US, and the word is out that the US’ latest lemon F-35, inclusive of its on-board radar, is already defunct because it has been mapped out by the Russian and Chinese photonic radar. Wonder, if that’s the reason why the US is growingly keen about selling the completely useless F-35 to the IAF and has confidence the Indian govt can be prevailed upon to buy it. So much for India’s reputation for buying junk.



Quantum radars, in any case, means definite death for so-called stealth aircraft. In any case, stealth is a mis-used word because even without quantum radars, the stealthiest of the present day aircraft can be easily detected by low frequency radars — the old World War Two kind!



And finally if Rafale is actually being considered as a nuclear delivery platform, what’s the talk that IAF is exploring acquiring a handful of the latest version of the Backfire Tu-22M3 from Russia — which makes more sense than Rafale but is not as good an option as the Tu-160 — all about?

What, Rafale as a nuclear delivery system?!
 
Dec 4, 2017
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Nothing irregular in Rafale deal: Defence minister

Union defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Tuesday countered Rahul Gandhi's allegation of wrongdoing and said all necessary procedures were followed while finalising the Rafale aircraft deal.

"I am surprised that the opposition has raised the issue of national security during Gujarat elections," the minister said while addressing journalists in Rajkot.

She claimed that the deal had been sealed according to the agreement between the two countries (India and France). The opposition was making false allegations that it was done in the absence of the defence minister.

"The defence ministers of both the countries have signed the deal. The technical statement was released in April 2015 and both the countries signed the deal in September 2016," Sitharaman said. She denied allegations made by the Congress on the price of Rafale fighter planes and said "everything was as per terms and conditions."

"India is ready to counter any infiltration from China or Pakistan," she said that reduction in tension at Doklam was India's big achievement.

Regarding the abduction of fishermen of Gujarat and south Indian states, Sitharaman said that the fishermen sometimes don't know from where the international waters begin and that's the reason they are captured by Pakistan or Sri Lankan forces.

"Prime Minister Narendra Modi is also worried about this problem. We will soon bring some solution to this problem with the help of technology," Sitharaman said.


Nothing irregular in Rafale deal: Defence minister - Times of India
 
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smestarz

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I knew Congress would play this movie, rather if they had gone by MMRCA it would have cost us close to 40-50 Bn dollars (inclusive of kickbacks)
The L1 was decided during their regime, the CNC had completed their report during Congress regime. so why they did not sign the deal then?

Nothing irregular in Rafale deal: Defence minister

Union defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Tuesday countered Rahul Gandhi's allegation of wrongdoing and said all necessary procedures were followed while finalising the Rafale aircraft deal.

"I am surprised that the opposition has raised the issue of national security during Gujarat elections," the minister said while addressing journalists in Rajkot.

She claimed that the deal had been sealed according to the agreement between the two countries (India and France). The opposition was making false allegations that it was done in the absence of the defence minister.

"The defence ministers of both the countries have signed the deal. The technical statement was released in April 2015 and both the countries signed the deal in September 2016," Sitharaman said. She denied allegations made by the Congress on the price of Rafale fighter planes and said "everything was as per terms and conditions."

"India is ready to counter any infiltration from China or Pakistan," she said that reduction in tension at Doklam was India's big achievement.

Regarding the abduction of fishermen of Gujarat and south Indian states, Sitharaman said that the fishermen sometimes don't know from where the international waters begin and that's the reason they are captured by Pakistan or Sri Lankan forces.

"Prime Minister Narendra Modi is also worried about this problem. We will soon bring some solution to this problem with the help of technology," Sitharaman said.


Nothing irregular in Rafale deal: Defence minister - Times of India
 

A Person

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Dec 1, 2017
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Karnad is at it again:
I have long argued is not a genuine answer for long range nuclear targeting, whence the desperate need for a genuine high-alt strategic bomber, the Tu-160 Blackjack, that the Russians were always ready to lease to India
The fact is Rafale may barely survive the AD environment over Pakistan. Across Tibet, it is a dead duck, and will have even less chance anywhere deeper in China mainland where the layered AD defence is so intense the US Air Force feels it will have to deploy its full might of the B-2s to register success.
If the Rafale has no chance to survive Chinese air defense, why does he think the Tu-160 would be any better? It's a much larger aircraft, without any sort of RCS reduction feature, and its cruise speed isn't anything to write home about.
 

sunstersun

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Dec 4, 2017
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There is nothing irregular with the Rafale deal. Look at the Middle east deals for 4.5 gen aircraft for reference, then add in India modifications and weapons.

Now was the Rafale a good deal, after nearly 15 years of MMRCA competition that's another question.
 

Aashish

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1512653011271.png


With their respective head of state looking on, Dassault Aviation CEO Eric Trappier and the Qatari Air Force commander sign an agreement firming up an option on 12 additional Rafales and an option for 36 more.

1512653875676.png

Qatara greed to firm up an option from 2015 to buy 12 more Dassault Aviation-made Rafale fighters, and said it could purchase a further 36. It had already bought 24 planes for about 6 billion euros ($7.11 billion), including missiles.

Macron secures €12 billion in deals on Qatar visit - France 24

12 options exercise
Further 36 options scope

48 more planes deal possible

Coincidence that S Christopher was there in Paris and met Doha folks as well over lunch? These orders will get components from DRAL plant.

@Picdelamirand-oil @halloweene @Bon Plan
 
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Aashish

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Mechanic for Rafale...

Aircraft mechanic Rafale FRANCE / INDIA H / F
  • Company: NOVAE AEROSPACE
  • Location: Aquitaine, Bordeaux - Aquitaine, France
  • Function: Airplane Mechanic Rafale FRANCE / INDIA
  • Type of contract: Contract of indefinite duration (CDI)
  • Publication date: 22-11-2017
  • Apply
Job Description
Novæ AEROSPACE Services, specialized in the field of technical assistance in the manufacture and maintenance of equipment, brings a high level of technical expertise to the Spatial, Defense and Aerospace industries all over the world.Novæ AEROSPACE Services therefore provides our clients with multidisciplinary stand-alone support and support teams dedicated to manufacturing, repair and maintenance issues. As part of a project that will begin in the first half of 2018, NOVAE AEROSPACE is looking for profiles of aircraft mechanics Mirage 2000 / RAFALE, of all specialties: avionics technician, vector maintenance technician and engine, technician armament board and ground.

You will support:
  • Online maintenance of Rafale-type aircraft as part of the training project for future Indian pilots and mechanics:
  • Aircraft Systems Technologies
  • Troubleshooting / Diagnosis
  • Testing / settings
  • Rules of the art of maintenance
  • Removal-rests as part of aircraft work
  • Disassembly, reassembly as part of equipment overhaul
  • The operation and maintenance of technical documentation in English: technical English, human factors, aeronautical legislation,
  • Responsibility for the representativeness of our client and Novae Aerospace to the Indian client,

    As such and in order to allow you to achieve the best objectives:
  • For qualified persons on Mirage 2000, you will follow a training on the General Rafale then on the India version during the first two quarters of 2018.
  • For Qualified Rafale people, you will be trained on Rafale India only.
The training period and that of the Indian client will take place over a period of approximately one and a half years in the Bordeaux region.
Required profile
You are specialties avionics, vector and engine, armament board and ground.

You have a good level of technical and conversational English.

You have a minimum of 5 years experience in an aerospace company and / or the army in one of the specialties you are looking for.

You master the office pack.

You hold a license B.

Offre d'emploi Mécanicien Avion Rafale FRANCE / INDE H/F, Aquitaine, Bordeaux, Aquitaine, France, NOVAE AEROSPACE | Aerocontact
 

RATHORE

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Safe to say, Karnad really isn't crazy about this Rafale deal. I don't think anyone has written with the same consistency and intensity against this deal as him.

Rafale canards, aren’t they problems?
Posted on December 10, 2017by Bharat Karnad

(Rafale)
The Indian Air Force has a proud 70-year record of BONE-HEADED acquisition decisions. Among them (1) the purchase of the under-powered British Jaguar DPSA at the expense of the entirely indigenously-designed but supposedly “under-powered” Marut HF-24 Mk-II (aka HF-73) and, in the process, registering of a collateral kill — as intended — of the indigenous Indian combat aircraft industry for nearly two generations (until an indigenous capability was revived from zero baseline with the Tejas LCA; (2) preferring the MiG-23 BN rather than a squadron of the Tu-22 Backfire bombers painted with IAF roundels that were ready to take-off for India had the Air Marshal Sheodeo Singh mission in the early summer of 1971 made the decision to take it as the Russians were urging it to; (3) No Tu-22, so no follow-on aircraft to the medium range Canberra bomber, and hence, disastrously, the complete elimination of the bomber from the IAF fleet; a decision not corrected by leasing the Tu-160 Blackjack; (4) the contretemps over inducting the Tejas LCA and derivatives in large numbers as the main bulk aircraft and, most recently, (5) the Rafale buy.
Because IAF has been so critical about all the things ostensibly wrong with the Tejas, may be we should put the inordinately expensive Rafale combat aircraft, that makes no cost-benefit sense whatsoever, under similar scrutiny, and see all the things structurally and otherwise wrong with this French item.
Let’s focus in this post on the canards on the Rafale. Canards are the rear horizontal wings in normal planes that are moved forward to near the nose for better aircraft control and hence featured in some combat aircraft like this French plane. It can contribute to lift, replacing the horizontal stabilizer and, therefore, reducing overall drag.
So, what’s the problem? Unlike the Su-30MKI — IAF’s front line advanced air dominance/air superiority fighter, which also sports canards, but uses its 2-D thrust vectoring nozzle for braking operations, the Rafale uses its canards. Using the canards thus generates enormous stress and strain on that part of the aircraft frame and can lead to stress fracture in the canards and can start developing cracks. Not sure if the IAF flew the Rafale, during the MMRCA test trials, in a sustained fashion over months in summer to see how the aircraft stacked up against the competition. Had they done so, they’d have witnessed the canards starting to fall apart. Combat aircraft experts give it 2-3 months of regular takeoff and landings in the hot tropical conditions of the subcontinent, for this problem to become apparent. Then what?
Replacing fractured and disabled canards is not an easy thing and when the entire fleet is so afflicted, as it will be, the IAF will have more of the Rafale down, resting in their airconditioned hangars than pulling duty in the skies. Soon, because it cannot be used too intensively or extensively, it will be reduced to another grand and expensive piece of hardware that, in terms of actual ready use, cannot reasonably be counted in the air order-of-battle. So much for the Rafale’s low down-time and quick-turnaround capability!!!
IAF doesn’t see this awful problem heading its way — and that’s par for the course. But the plane’s producer, Dassault, must be licking its chops in anticipation, because every canard repair and refit will require the aircraft to be ferried to the company’s production line in France. One can safely assess the additional costs of this major structural flaw over the aircraft’s lifetime for the 36 Rafales to be in billions of Euros. As Government of India is clueless, it will do what — grin and bear it?
Won’t the IAF then complain about a degraded fighter force and about not enough fighter aircraft in the air? Of course, it will but only to pitch in for more Rafales in the belief that one horrible mistake should be followed up by a cascade more such mistakes!
Incidentally, thanks to the intervention by the IAF in the design stage of the LCA and insistence on a canard on the Tejas — a movement headed by an ex-test pilot Air Marshal M. Matheswaran, who retired as Deputy Chief at HQ Integrated Defence Staff, the entire project was delayed by several years. The insertion of the canard in the original design required a major reworking of it, and the ultimate decision by its designers, who knew better but tried to humour its customer, to do away with it, cost the project time and hurt the LCA delivery schedule. And, which delays were then used by the IAF and Matheswaran in particular (and an ignorant/illiterate press and media), in general, to slam the Tejas.
This same Matheswaran after retirement was recruited by HAL as “adviser” for the LCA programme — why is not clear. He has since jumped ship to something lots more lucrative — a sinecure with Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence that has signed up with Dassault for offsets to produce some knick-knacks that will go into the IAF Rafales to be manufactured — minus any transfer of technology — wholly in France. Neat!


Link: Rafale canards, aren’t they problems?
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Parrikar says Rafale deal gives India edge over Pakistan, slams Antony for delay

Goa Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar today accused former Defence Minister A K Antony of creating a "logjam" over the Rafale fighter jet deal and asserted that the acquisition of the French aircraft has given India a superiority over Pakistan in terms of air power.

Parrikar, who succeeded UPA's Antony as Defence Minister when NDA came to power in 2014, was speaking at the Goa Arts and Literature Festival here after launching a book 'Securing India The Modi Way', penned by Nitin Gokhale.

Parrikar said a day before Prime Minister Narendra Modi signed the Rafale jet deal with the French government, he (Parrikar) had addressed a meeting of officials from the Air Force to work out a solution to the "logjam" created by the Congress leader.

"Antony had put strange noting on the file dealing with Rafale purchase. He mentioned on the file 'start discussion, finalise price and after everything is finished please come back to me' with all the documentary evidence of how the Rafale company was the lowest (bidder).

"Now the CVC (Central Vigilance Commission) guideline says you can't negotiate with anyone other than the lowest (bidder). The files were going in circles and circles," he said.

Parrikar, who left the Union ministry to become Goa chief minister in March this year, said for two and a half years the file was "doing rounds in circle, we broke the circle by deciding that we will have to go for different approach".

Referring to the Congress's allegation about the "high price" of Rafale jets, he said "a fighter aircraft is not only an aircraft, the aircraft is probably a smaller part of the total cost. The real cost comes in purchasing special equipment."

The deal covered a particular kind of helmet worn by the pilot, Parrikar said. "... the target is locked by watching at it. It is virtually 360 degrees visibility. Here he (pilot) has to just watch opponent's target and press the button, the computer does the rest. That cost of development of helmet is included in the deal," he said.

The former defence minister said that in 1999, the Indian Air Force succeeded in pushing out its Pakistani counterpart out of the Kargil conflict zone, because India had Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles with a range of 30 km on SU30 and MiG 29 aircrafts.

"Pakistan had only about 20 km range ... due to which they remained away," he said.

However, between 1999 and 2014, Pakistan acquired a capacity of 100 km range whereas India had upgraded its BVR up to 60 km on SU30, he said.

"We were now in danger of being shot down by Pakistani fighters staying 100 km away and not being able to retaliate and Rafale deal took care of this with a missile with a range of 150 km fitted on aircraft," Parrikar said.

"An aircraft may cost 90 million euros but other components will cost you 150 million euros because you have to make it fighting-fit," the former union minister said.

"Unfortunately we deal with the purchases of fighters as if we are buying toor dal and mung dal" he said, claiming the Congress leaders "do not know anything" about Defence.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/62002490.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 

AbRaj

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Special CorrespondentSPECIAL CORRESPONDENT PANAJI 10 DECEMBER 2017 00:00 IST
UPDATED: 10 DECEMBER 2017 04:11 IST

Parrikar slams Cong. for discussing Rafale in Gujarat polls

Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar on Saturday slammed the Congress for discussing the Rafale deal during the Gujarat elections with lack of seriousness.

“Unluckily we in India deal with aircraft purchases or the fighter purchases like we think of tur dal andmoong dal. They are not,” said Mr. Parrikar.

He was speaking at the launch of strategic analyst Nitin Gokhale’s book ‘Securing India the Modi Way’ at the Goa Art and Literature festival 2017 on Saturday evening.

“On watching Congress stalwarts talking about Rafale in the Gujarat elections, I realised that these people don’t know anything about defence. A fighter aircraft is not only an aircraft. Aircraft is probably a smaller part of the total cost. The real cost comes in special equipment,” said ex-Defence Minister Mr. Parrikar.

Mr. Parrikar said that the surgical strikes in Myanmar and Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir proved India’s power. “The External Affairs Ministry is the front end, while the Defence is the back end for a successful nation,” he said.

He said he just had a hearty laugh when Digvijaya Singh (of the Congress) said that when the Prime Minister was signing the Rafale deal, the Defence Minister was buying fish.

“He was completely wrong. When the Prime Minister was signing the Rafale deal, one day prior to that we had an extensive meeting with the Air Force and we worked out the solution to come out of the logjam created by UPA Defence Minister Antony, who was called a saint. He had a very strange noting on the file. He said, start discussion, finalise the price, and after everything is finished, please come back to me with all the documentary evidence how Dassault or the Rafale is the lowest,” said Mr. Parrikar.

‘We deal with aircraft purchases like tur dal’

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