Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

kor4116

Member
Feb 17, 2021
37
35
korea
@Picdelamirand-oil
@Bon Plan
@randomradio

Sir , Right now Pakistanis are having a very good look at Qatari Rafales

Assuming that Pakistan gets complete
Access to Spectra and RBE 2 AESA
How will it Affect IAF future operations
I don't think there will be any major problems. Qatar bought Rafale from France at a high price. However, if Qatar reveals Rafale's equipment and detailed tactics to Pakistan and Turkey, it will eventually depreciate the value of the Rafale they own. Qatar is sure not to do that. If Qatar does that, no one in the international community will trust Qatar. In addition to the Rafale, Qatar will also operate the F-15EX and Eurofighter. They too will keep an eye on Qatar. In Korea, such an action is expressed as "laying down and spitting in the face."
 
  • Like
Reactions: STEPHEN COHEN

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
6,636
4,129
I don't think there will be any major problems. Qatar bought Rafale from France at a high price. However, if Qatar reveals Rafale's equipment and detailed tactics to Pakistan and Turkey, it will eventually depreciate the value of the Rafale they own. Qatar is sure not to do that. If Qatar does that, no one in the international community will trust Qatar. In addition to the Rafale, Qatar will also operate the F-15EX and Eurofighter. They too will keep an eye on Qatar. In Korea, such an action is expressed as "laying down and spitting in the face."

My question is about the Fact that
If your enemy knows the Entire Capabilities of your Weapon System

So then , in such a case how should you devise Tactics and Strategies
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,135
794
Delhi
ROE was a sham to hide the collective failure. Any sane person can se through it.
Which ROE allows IAF to bomb deep inside Pax ?
Fact is they never expected that PAF will retaliate so quickly. It was total chaos on 27 with severe lack of coordination and readiness to tackle the well planned counter attack . Like COVID 19 first wave all were elated that how easy we performed on 26 air raid and then similar to second wave, caught pants down on 27.
Ideally our Air defenses should’ve engaged the lumbering targets Mirage III provides and then should have deployed sufficient numbers of air assets including all time ready AWACS coverage.

If I’m not wrong, they selected that time in early morning because IAF CAP duty ends during this time and another group take over the charge.
How would our AD engage the mirage or f16 when it's well known they never crossed into our airspace? All of the targets they engaged were from the safety of their airspace.
I agree ROE reasoning is weak but I personally think IAF never wanted to escalate it further since even the GOI called it non military targets ..
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
1,757
1,325
Republic of Wadiya
How would our AD engage the mirage or f16 when it's well known they never crossed into our airspace? All of the targets they engaged were from the safety of their airspace.
That means IAF spokesmen was lying on 27 Feb evening. Good to know that.
I agree ROE reasoning is weak but I personally think IAF never wanted to escalate it further since even the GOI called it non military targets ..
IAF is a peace loving force, no doubt.
 

kor4116

Member
Feb 17, 2021
37
35
korea
제 질문은
적이 당신의 무기 시스템의 모든 능력을 알고 있다면

그래서 그런 경우에 전술과 전략을 어떻게 고안해야합니까?
Even if the enemy learns the abilities and tactics of our weapons, the weapons do not stay in one place, they are constantly upgraded, and so are the tactics. I don't think the enemy will be able to gain an edge by fighting weapons on our side unless we have a powerful platform that actually overwhelms us. Weapons are constantly evolving.

News: French parliamentarians have proposed developing an electronic warfare version of the Rafale fighter. He said the development of the Rafale electronic warfare version will have a positive impact on Rafale's overseas exports.
Un député suggère de développer "rapidement"un Rafale dédié à la guerre électronique | Zone Militaire
Question n°39789 - Assemblée nationale
 
Last edited:

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,671
8,919
India
@Picdelamirand-oil
@Bon Plan
@randomradio

Sir , Right now Pakistanis are having a very good look at Qatari Rafales

Assuming that Pakistan gets complete
Access to Spectra and RBE 2 AESA
How will it Affect IAF future operations

They won't get access. Even if they do, there's nothing much they can do about it. It won't change anything much from our side. But they will have a general idea about the capabilities of fighting the Rafale to a significant extent, which is a risk that has always existed with imports.

What they really need is to bring the Rafale back to Pak and then test it with their equipment. That will be the real problem. Anything else is not a real risk to us because the Qataris are not dumb enough to piss off the French by exposing the Rafale's secrets to another state, so the Rafales will be exercising with limited capability, like how we only operated the Bars with training signals early on with the Americans. There will be measures taken against such leaks anyway.
 

Saaho

Senior member
Dec 27, 2019
1,888
1,376
Earth
So Modi ji’s plan to bomb Bahawalpur riding Rafale vimaan is cancelled now given Pakistanis know rafale vimaan “inside out”

So no more “Rafele hota to xyz hota” anymore.

Ab tera kya hoga kaliya 😀😀😀
Do they really need a Rafale to bomb Bahawalpur?
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,916
910
Mumbai
They won't get access. Even if they do, there's nothing much they can do about it. It won't change anything much from our side. But they will have a general idea about the capabilities of fighting the Rafale to a significant extent, which is a risk that has always existed with imports.

What they really need is to bring the Rafale back to Pak and then test it with their equipment. That will be the real problem. Anything else is not a real risk to us because the Qataris are not dumb enough to piss off the French by exposing the Rafale's secrets to another state, so the Rafales will be exercising with limited capability, like how we only operated the Bars with training signals early on with the Americans. There will be measures taken against such leaks anyway.
That ris exist with export also, imagine in an extreme unlikely situation of Malaysia selecting Tejas abd we are offering them our uttam, Astra etc.
 

Saaho

Senior member
Dec 27, 2019
1,888
1,376
Earth
Does it matter? It’s all about hiding behind excuses.
Modi ji bum maar dete agar rafale hota.
Its not just Modiji. Its the handiwork of entire trinity. Babu-Neta-Businessman. None of them want sovereignty of India to be protected. Its too costly for them. But if I can I want to see all these beaurocrats in MoD being shot dead publically with their entire families. They are the biggest bane of our existance.
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,135
794
Delhi
That ris exist with export also, imagine in an extreme unlikely situation of Malaysia selecting Tejas abd we are offering them our uttam, Astra etc.
Malaysia isn't buying Tejas. Simply because it has a lot of Israeli tech on it so that is an automatic no-no. Most probably they will go with Korean FA50. Technically inferior to the Tejas but with an American radar it can use the amraam. It can use the paveway and can carry similar payloads even though still less..Plus they have Lockheed Martin as suppliers.
 
Last edited:

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,671
8,919
India
Malaysia isn't buying Tejas. Simply because it has a lot of Israeli tech on it so that is an automatic no-no. Most probably they will go with Korean FA50. Technically inferior to the Tejas but with an American radar it can use the amraam. It can use the paveway and can carry similar payloads even though still less..Plus they have Lockheed Martin as suppliers.

The FA-50 carries an Israeli radar. The Americans are not going to give them a radar for obvious reasons.

Any contract with Malaysia will only be signed after 2022, which means we have a minimum of 3 years to deliver a jet with an Indian AESA radar, which is planned from the second squadron of Mk1A, ie, 2025-26. Uttam will become production ready this year. A lot of the stuff that's considered Israeli is basically Indian IP, like the UEWS.

A major drawback for the Korean option is the engine is underpowered for the Malaysian environment and comes only in a two-seat configuration. And its currently available weapons options are not suitable to counter the Chinese. It is mostly carrying outdated weapons today. Plus no AMRAAM yet, it's still WIP, although it should become available by 2025, when the missile is obsolete.

With the timeframe the Malaysians are working with, they plan to buy 18 jets now and 36 more later, for 3 squadrons. The 36 more could be the LCA Mk2 instead of Mk1A, so that's a very good option to have.

The previous FLIT-LCA RFI drew responses from Boeing (offering its T-7 Red Hawk), South Korea’s KAI (the FA-50), Italy’s Leonardo (M-346 Master), India’s HAL (Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, or LCA), China-Pakistan PAC (JF-17 Thunder), China’s Hongdu (L-15 Falcon), Czech Aero Vodochody (L-39NG), and Russia’s Yakovlev (Yak-130 Mitten).

Compared to all the non-Chinese aircraft in the competition, only LCA is a real fighter jet.

Their main plan is to get 3 squadrons of FLIT-LCAs and 2 squadrons of MRFAs. So it's unlikely they will be happy with a whole bunch of trainers.
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,135
794
Delhi
The FA-50 carries an Israeli radar. The Americans are not going to give them a radar for obvious reasons.

Any contract with Malaysia will only be signed after 2022, which means we have a minimum of 3 years to deliver a jet with an Indian AESA radar, which is planned from the second squadron of Mk1A, ie, 2025-26. Uttam will become production ready this year. A lot of the stuff that's considered Israeli is basically Indian IP, like the UEWS.

A major drawback for the Korean option is the engine is underpowered for the Malaysian environment and comes only in a two-seat configuration. And its currently available weapons options are not suitable to counter the Chinese. It is mostly carrying outdated weapons today. Plus no AMRAAM yet, it's still WIP, although it should become available by 2025, when the missile is obsolete.

With the timeframe the Malaysians are working with, they plan to buy 18 jets now and 36 more later, for 3 squadrons. The 36 more could be the LCA Mk2 instead of Mk1A, so that's a very good option to have.

The previous FLIT-LCA RFI drew responses from Boeing (offering its T-7 Red Hawk), South Korea’s KAI (the FA-50), Italy’s Leonardo (M-346 Master), India’s HAL (Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, or LCA), China-Pakistan PAC (JF-17 Thunder), China’s Hongdu (L-15 Falcon), Czech Aero Vodochody (L-39NG), and Russia’s Yakovlev (Yak-130 Mitten).

Compared to all the non-Chinese aircraft in the competition, only LCA is a real fighter jet.

Their main plan is to get 3 squadrons of FLIT-LCAs and 2 squadrons of MRFAs. So it's unlikely they will be happy with a whole bunch of trainers.
Yes fa 50 uses elm 2032 but I think if the Malaysians push they could use the apg 67 instead. We don't have a radar apart from the elm 2032. I don't think Malaysians are really interested in countering the Chinese..
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,671
8,919
India
Yes fa 50 uses elm 2032 but I think if the Malaysians push they could use the apg 67 instead. We don't have a radar apart from the elm 2032. I don't think Malaysians are really interested in countering the Chinese..

Zero chance of that happening. You can't buy American tech like that. After all, the Americans don't like creating competitors, especially in a tender in which even they are participating.
Stand corrected. Rafale can only win if there is no F-35 offering



Good. At least we have a concrete result. Hopefully some of the tech evals come out.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,671
8,919
India
@A Person @Picdelamirand-oil

I'm sure this is a problem for France as well, in case some Rafales and Mirages are relocated to Turkey. Never mind the fact that the Turks already know everything there is to know about the F-35 already.