Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Manmohan_MMY

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Rafale makers invite French SMEs to set up shop in India

After securing a deal to sell 36 Rafale fighters jets to India, and not withstanding the political brouhaha that has erupted in its wake, Dassault Aviation is looking to attract and house an organic ecosystem of French SMEs in India. The aim is to secure its component manufacturing needs here.

France’s Centre Val de Loire Regional Council and Aerocentre invited the companies behind the development of the Rafale fighter jet, Dassault Aviation, Safran and Thales — which together make up Rafale International — to showcase and present to the SMEs in the region, how they are helping set up an industrial aeronautical sector in India.

Some 50-odd small businesses in France were present on the occasion. The companies spoke on how they would be contributing to ‘Make in India’ as part of the Rafale offset programme, even as they presented the many opportunities available for French SMEs to invest and set up production facilities in India.

Defining a roadmap for the French SMEs to help them join the Dassault Aviation, Safran and Thales global supply chain, the companies said the initiative would help bolster the industrial ecosystem already under way in India, and would benefit both French and Indian partners.

Meantime, components for the Dassault Falcon 2000s are also to be made in India from the first quarter of next year, when the joint venture Dassault Reliance Aerospace manufacturing facility opens up in Mihan, Nagpur.

After the facility gains expertise in manufacturing components for the Falcon 2000 jets, it could also expand capabilities to include final assembly of Rafale fighters.

source : http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...es-to-set-up-shop-in-india/article9976722.ece
 
S

Seiko

New Rafale deal may affect HAL’s future: R.V. Deshpande

Large and Medium Industries Minister R.V. Deshpande on Thursday expressed fear that cancellation of the Rafale deal signed by the erstwhile UPA government may affect the future of Bengaluru-based defence public sector undertaking, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Addressing a press conference here, he pointed out that the earlier deal had made HAL a partner of French-based Dassault Aviation to make Rafale aircraft in India through transfer of technology clause. He alleged that the new deal signed by the Narendra Modi government was not beneficial to the HAL as the French aircraft manufacturer had now refused to transfer technology to the PSU. “The cancellation of the old deal and entering into a deal is very unfortunate,” he said, while maintaining that the earlier deal would have resulted in much benefit for Karnataka and HAL in terms of employment generation. “We strongly oppose the Centre’s decision as it may affect HAL’s future,” Mr. Deshpande said and urged the Centre to reconsider its decision.


http://****/new-rafale-deal-may-affect-hals-future-r-v-deshpande/
 
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French small businesses examine Indian Rafale opportunities


The companies behind the development of the Rafale fighter have presented the benefits of investing in the Indian acquisition of the aircraft to a number of French small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), in the hope that they will choose to participate in the programme that will see an initial batch of 36 examples procured.
Dassault Aviation, Safran, and Thales drew some 50 companies to a business-to-business event in the Centre Val de Loire region of France on 24 November to promote the concept of an industrial aeronautical sector in India, as well as the available opportunities for these SMEs as part of the offset requirements for the fighter acquisition.


http://www.janes.com/article/75998/french-small-businesses-examine-indian-rafale-opportunities
 
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Herciv

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Hi guys,

Will continue new discussions here...
Sorry not to respond you before.
I follow your post since Pk-defence where I also discover picdel.
I liked the balance in Older Forum, not to many pro or too many anti. If I prefered your post those of random, Gessler, vstol jockey I also liked those of Sancho because They helped to push some of you to have good argues.

I'm a rafale fanboy. But I'm only able to ask questions. Then I didn't post here not to had confusion with too many rafale fanboys but on bestfighter4canada, or air-defense.com even on f-16.net.
 

Parthu

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I decided to make a small compilation of all the unique weapon systems that the IAF Rafale will make use of (those not present on any other Rafale; French, Egyptian or Qatari). Some of these are confirmed, while others are revealed in off-forum discussions, while still others are results of my own interpretation. Here goes:

  • Astra Mk.I/II BVRAAM



The DRDO-developed Astra Mk-1 has so far only been tested from the Su-30MKI, but with the indigenous Ku-band seeker now in place (earlier tests had a Russian X-band seeker, from the same family as the R-77 seekers, from Agat JSC), the missile will be ready for integration on a range of other aircraft as well. While IAF has also purchased the Meteor, I believe it will be complimented by a cheaper radar-guided AAM as well. New MICA-EM stocks are available (bought for the upgraded Mirage 2000-5 Mk-2) and already certified on Rafale. But the Astra Mk-1 offers superior range, while the in-development Mk-2 brings still greater range, improvements to seeker, and many of the same capabilities as Meteor, but at a much cheaper price. This, IMO, makes integrating the Astra Mk-1/2 on IAF Rafales a sound decision.

  • BrahMos-NG



This is a Next-Gen version of the existing BrahMos-A ALCM (recently test-launched for the first time from Su-30MKI). The NG weighs approximately half as much as the existing BrahMos (~1300kg for air launched version as opposed to 2500kg on current ALCM variant), which means both Rafale & MKI can carry multiple of these (2-3 or even more in distant future). The NG will have a range of ~300km and a hi-altitude top speed of Mach 3.5 (about 0.5 to 0.7M faster than current BrahMos) thanks to a new, refined Ramjet motor. A more advanced & compact Active seeker will give it pin-point accuracy even while approaching at great speeds. Both anti-ship and land-attack variants will be made - and I have every reason to believe IAF (and IN too) will want to use the BrahMos-NG as the Rafale's principle maritime strike armament, in place of the AM39 Exocet used by the base French model. This missile will also constitute the "Fast/High" strike option for IAF Rafales, with emphasis on speed & surprise (while the SCALP-EG will take care of the "Slow/Low" standoff strike option, with emphasis on Stealth).

All BrahMos versions are made by a JV company (BrahMos Aerospace), where the DRDO under the Indian Govt. holds a 50.5% stake while Russia's NPO Mashinostroyenia holds the remaining 49.5%.

  • SAAW



The Smart/Stand-off Anti-Airfield Weapon is a long range Precision-Guided Munition designed for debilitating strikes on enemy air-bases. Developed by DRDO, the 120kg munition has a comfortable standoff range of up to 100kms. The SAAW shares it's airframe form-factor with the Israeli RAFAEL's Spice-250 PGM, and apparently there is an Israeli hand in it's development as well. It was recently test-dropped from a Jaguar...and although only a fixed-fin, twin-rack version was tested that time, a folded-fin, quad-pack version will be ready by the time SAAW can make it on IAF Rafales.

  • NGARM



The Next-Gen Anti-Radiation Missile is currently being developed by DRDO to fulfill the role of IAF's future ARM, as such it will be used on all aircraft expected to carry out Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses (DEAD). So far tested only from the Su-30MKI, the NGARM is based on the airframe of the Astra BVRAAM. It will have a range of approximately 100-120kms, which puts it in the league of AGM-88 HARM as far as kinematics go.

  • Spice-2000



Israeli PGM bought off the shelf. Already used on Mirage-2000 and Su-30MKI. I'll bet it'll find usage on Rafales as well.

  • PGHSLD Series



The Precision-Guided High Speed Low Drag bombs are a family of LGBs that currently constitute only a 450kg and a 500kg variant, and will in future probably comprise of the whole range, from small (~250kg) to very large (1000, 1500 & 2000kg) variants. This is basically a laser-guidance package added to the HSLD gravity bomb body. The Fiber-optic Gyro-based INS-GPS module, a GPS antenna, telemetry module and Flight Control Unit are contained in the Smart Tail Unit (STU), which also has four controllable fins for maneuvering, while the Nose-Extension Unit (NEU) has the guidance component.

  • HSLD Series



The unguided gravity bomb body of the PGHSLD. Currently available in 250kg and 450kg variants, but will probably expand to include the whole range in future.

  • A new 500kg General Purpose gravity bomb is also being developed. The GPB, HSLD & PGHSLD are undergoing carriage-trials on Su-30MKI...but their usage will be across the entire tactical fighter fleet of IAF.



  • And there's going to be something more....I won't say much, except: the IAF really likes the French way of delivering nukes by air (ASMP-A)....and is looking at a home-grown solution to address a similar requirement. Development of an Solid-Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) in India was ongoing for a while, and that R&D and technology could find use in this project. Wait and watch. :p



@PARIKRAMA @Picdelamirand-oil @Hellfire @randomradio you guys are free to add anything I may have missed.
 

Manmohan_MMY

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Nov 30, 2017
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Months before it signed the deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in 2016, the NDA government passed over another European offer that promised deliveries of the Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft which was €59 million per unit cheaper than the French planes.

The offer – made at the top level of the Indian government – involved diverting deliveries of Eurofighter Typhoon jets from Britain, Italy and Germany to meet urgent Indian requirements. The offer also pledged to set up a full production line for transfer of technology of the combat jets.

The offer of the Eurofighter Typhoon, manufactured by a consortium of European firms, was pushed by both Germany and Britain at the most senior levels.

The price: €138 million per unit for 126 Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft against the €197 million for each of the 36 Rafale jets New Delhi agreed to buy from Paris.

Both prices do not include the cost of weapons. India has to pay another €710 million for missiles that come with the Rafale. The cost of weapons for the Eurofighter Typhoon were not discussed as the offer was not pursued.

In fairness, the Eurofighter Typhoon offer was for the larger order of 126 jets involving better economies of scale. The price for 36 flyaway jets was not discussed as India did not engage in detailed talks with the consortium.



Earlier this month, the opposition Congress party alleged a “huge scam” in the Rafale deal, raising questions about the cost of the fighter jet and the procurement procedure that was followed. The Congress claims it had negotiated a lower price for the same Rafale jets.

The Congress also accused the government of promoting the financial interests of its “crony capitalist friends” at the cost of a defence public sector unit, calling into question a large part of the offsets being executed by Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited.

The NDA government has denied any wrongdoing in the deal. Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman has said that the situation in the Air Force was grim when the alliance took power in 2014 and blamed it on what she said was inaction by the previous UPA government.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government had to move quickly on the Rafale deal to ensure the Air Force was not left unattended, she had said.


‘Clear signal’ in favour of Rafale ::

Back in 2012, both the French Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon had been found compliant to all India-specific requirements by the Air Force. Other aircraft such as the F-16, Gripen and F/A-18 had been rejected after a series of tests. Negotiations started with Rafale due to the lower price offered then.

“Out of the six proposals received in response to the RFP for procurement of the MMRCA, the proposals of M/s Dassault Aviation for Rafale and M/s EADS, Germany for Eurofighter Typhoon were found compliant to the technical requirements. The proposal of M/s Dassault Aviation had the lowest cost,” then defence minister Arun Jaitley had told the Lok Sabha in August 2014.

After it became clear that the UPA-led process to purchase the Rafale was getting delayed, the Modi government was forced to scrap it in favour of a fresh deal. Sensing a fresh opportunity, Germany, strongly backed by Britain, made a new bid and offered a 20 per cent reduction in Eurofighter Typhoon prices for India.

This offer was first made in July 2014 and was valid through 2015 when New Delhi was negotiating the Rafale deal.

Several sources involved in the process told ThePrint that while a patient hearing was given initially to Eurofighter, a clear signal came from South Block that only the Rafale was being considered.

Also, unlike the process followed with France, where several options on numbers and capabilities were discussed, talks with Germany and Britain did not go beyond a paper proposal.

The Eurofighter Typhoon had been offered at a total cost of €17.5 billion for 126 fighters, or €138 million per plane.

The Rafale deal cost India €7.1 billion for 36 jets, which translates to €197 million per jet.

Even if the €353 million performance based logistics cost – the money to maintain and fly the fighters for five years – is deducted, the Rafale jets cost India €187 million per fighter.


Promise to transfer technology ::

The German deal also promised technology transfer to manufacture the jets in India. “The alliance of Indian companies with the Eurofighter Typhoon program will have a comparable impact on employment and create more than 20,000 jobs for highly skilled employees in India,” the formal proposal read.

The Rafale jet deal that was finally signed in 2016 did not include the requirement of manufacturing the jets in India, likely due to the limited number of 36 aircraft ordered. While this number is expected to go up, the deal only has a clause that 50 per cent of the contract value will be invested in India. The lead Indian company chosen for this offset clause is Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited.

The Germans also offered to divert current orders in case India required the jets on an urgent basis.

“To further accelerate the availability of fighter aircraft for the government of India we are in dialogue with our European customer nations Germany, United Kingdom, Italy and Spain to divert from their own deliveries to the benefit of the Government of India should you wish to utilize such an accelerated program,” the offer said.

Sources said that India did not get into detailed discussions about the per unit price of the Eurofighter in the event New Delhi reduced the number of jets it planned to order as it eventually happened with the Rafale.

“It was clear that discussions would only be carried on with the French and there was no room for any other offer,” an official, who had been involved in the discussions, told ThePrint.

India is due to get 36 Rafale jets by the end of 2019 – a much needed addition to the Air Force that is desperate for cutting edge fighters. The Air Force is also keen to add to this fleet with more orders, given the unreliability of the existing Russian fleet and delays in inducting the indigenous Tejas.

Just before Rafale deal, govt passed over option to buy €59 mln/unit cheaper Eurofighter
 

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Months before it signed the deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in 2016, the NDA government passed over another European offer that promised deliveries of the Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft which was €59 million per unit cheaper than the French planes.
That's pretty funny.

The price: €138 million per unit for 126 Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft against the €197 million for each of the 36 Rafale jets New Delhi agreed to buy from Paris.

Both prices do not include the cost of weapons. India has to pay another €710 million for missiles that come with the Rafale. The cost of weapons for the Eurofighter Typhoon were not discussed as the offer was not pursued.

In fairness, the Eurofighter Typhoon offer was for the larger order of 126 jets involving better economies of scale. The price for 36 flyaway jets was not discussed as India did not engage in detailed talks with the consortium.
The actual cost for the Rafale jets was revealed by Indian authorities, which is how we know it was 91 millions for single-seaters and 94 for twins.

So the 59 millions less is actually a 44 millions more.
 
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Bon Plan

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That's pretty funny.


The actual cost for the Rafale jets was revealed by Indian authorities, which is how we know it was 91 millions for single-seaters and 94 for twins.

So the 59 millions less is actually a 44 millions more.
First time I see a EF cheaper than Rafale.
Did this price includes the high level services offered for Rafale (75% diponibility). What was the EF configuration? (At the end of the swiss "tender", Dassault offered a lower cost Rafale but with reduced air to ground capacity...)
 

Bon Plan

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  • And there's going to be something more....I won't say much, except: the IAF really likes the French way of delivering nukes by air (ASMP-A)....and is looking at a home-grown solution to address a similar requirement. Development of an Solid-Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) in India was ongoing for a while, and that R&D and technology could find use in this project. Wait and watch. :p
The Meteor pave the way for a tactical use solid fuel stato. Even if it's less efficient thant a liquid one, it's probably a nice idea for futur air to ground missile. Deterence included.
 
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Egypt received yesterday the last of the single-seaters it had ordered. They had ordered 24 Rafale in total, 16 DM (twin seaters) of which 6 have been received, and 8 EM (single seaters), all received now. Following Dassault's conventions, M stands for Maṣr, the Arabic name for Egypt, E for Export and D for dual. Egypt has an option for 12 more, but have difficulties raising the money needed to purchase them.