Naxalite–Maoist insurgency: Updates and Discussions

Guynextdoor

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Dec 19, 2017
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Please read the time when it all started and why. It started after the death of Lal bahadur Shastri when Indira needed support of communists to grab power. Naxals have gone unchecked ever since under congress regimes and regimes supported by Congress and Commies. It has been taken on only by the present govt. Growth of Naxals is not due to any problem with either govt agencies or so called deprivation of adivashis. It is plain simple support of congress to commies. This movement was taken over by Chinese and ISI in late 90s and further nurtured by Congress in 2004-14. Just check the number of CAPF forces we lost in that period.

It doesn’t matter when it started.

In Soviet Union the rules were clear, all ownership is collective
In USA the rules are clear individual property is sacrosanct and a man has a right to get the market value of what he holds

Only in India did we do mixed economy and get the worst of both worlds. Capitalists used their nexus with politicians to get everything for a pittance. Look at the mandi system. When onion prices go up to 70 rupees does the farmer make anything? No. Because most are forced to sell it to the mandi system to get msp. A handful of middlemen operating the mandi in nashik makes most othe cash. This flourished under all governments of the past. Did modi do anything to dismantle the mandi? No. He didn’t either.

Blaming the naxLs is like beating the symptoms. Until you break down the system to make it truly capitalist there will be no solution.
 

vstol Jockey

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Dec 1, 2017
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It doesn’t matter when it started.

In Soviet Union the rules were clear, all ownership is collective
In USA the rules are clear individual property is sacrosanct and a man has a right to get the market value of what he holds

Only in India did we do mixed economy and get the worst of both worlds. Capitalists used their nexus with politicians to get everything for a pittance. Look at the mandi system. When onion prices go up to 70 rupees does the farmer make anything? No. Because most are forced to sell it to the mandi system to get msp. A handful of middlemen operating the mandi in nashik makes most othe cash. This flourished under all governments of the past. Did modi do anything to dismantle the mandi? No. He didn’t either.

Blaming the naxLs is like beating the symptoms. Until you break down the system to make it truly capitalist there will be no solution.
Naxals are a product of dirty politics and have no ideology or anything to do with farmer issues. They are a bunch of looters and thugs.
Naxalite - Wikipedia
 

vstol Jockey

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Dec 1, 2017
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BJP govt is the only govt which has allowed open selling of farm produce and direct selling. The movement of farm produce is completely free of any taxes across India and also free from Toll. The govt established Mandis no more have monoply. Please read about it.
 
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Guynextdoor

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
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India
Naxals are a product of dirty politics and have no ideology or anything to do with farmer issues. They are a bunch of looters and thugs.
Naxalite - Wikipedia

NO. Naxals feed off the extremely distorted politis and economics being played on ground. If true capitalist principles were followed, there never would have been and will not be naxalism. If farmers are getting proper market value, why would they fall for these jokers? If people on whose lands factories are being built get proper rates why would they join naxals? HUGE factories are built in the US- do you see naxalism there? This is ENTIRELY because indian governmenst have not allowed market participants to get their due. Once that happens this will just vanish.
 

Guynextdoor

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
3,867
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India
BJP govt is the only govt which has allowed open selling of farm produce and direct selling. The movement of farm produce is completely free of any taxes across India and also free from Toll. The govt established Mandis no more have monoply. Please read about it.

I can assure you there are cosmetic changes but on ground not much has changed. They don't DARE take on the mandi. Do you know the mandi that is most notorious for pushing up onion prices? Hint- it now has the name of a non BJP politician who was a big minister. Despite BJP coming in, that mandi continues to flourish and f**k with both farmers and us customers.
 

CountryFirst

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Dec 11, 2017
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BJP govt is the only govt which has allowed open selling of farm produce and direct selling. The movement of farm produce is completely free of any taxes across India and also free from Toll. The govt established Mandis no more have monoply. Please read about it.

Wow this is news!! So the mandis are dismantled and they can sell directly, all across the country??
 

vstol Jockey

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Dec 1, 2017
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Wow this is news!! So the mandis are dismantled and they can sell directly, all across the country??
The Mandis are there but they do not have sole right to purchase the farm produce. The problem with Farmers is their lack of education. The educated farmers are making a killing thru agriculture. I know of young guys, IIT trained, who gave up white collar jobs and have taken to farming and earning millions every year and that too just outside Delhi.
We need to start a co-operative movement in agri sector so that the farmers at village level have direct access to market and do not have to sell their produce to Mandi brokers. They must be taught to hire transport of their own to send the produce directly to markets.
GROFERs pick up the stuff directly from the farmlands and transport them on their own directly to your homes. The place I stay, many guys come on their bikes to sell milk directly from their home dairies.
 
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CountryFirst

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Dec 11, 2017
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Please read the time when it all started and why. It started after the death of Lal bahadur Shastri when Indira needed support of communists to grab power. Naxals have gone unchecked ever since under congress regimes and regimes supported by Congress and Commies. It has been taken on only by the present govt. Growth of Naxals is not due to any problem with either govt agencies or so called deprivation of adivashis. It is plain simple support of congress to commies. This movement was taken over by Chinese and ISI in late 90s and further nurtured by Congress in 2004-14. Just check the number of CAPF forces we lost in that period.

I don't get this part. On one side she came into power for what she did w.r.t Lal Bahadu Shastri with Soviet Russian help. On other side she called emergency to kill of naxals.

Is it like this:
She was pro-Russian-communist-factions and anti-China-communist-factions?
 
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CountryFirst

Active member
Dec 11, 2017
462
182
Bharat
The Mandis are there but they do not have sole right to purchase the farm produce. The problem with Farmers is their lack of education. The educated farmers are making a killing thru agriculture. I know of young guys, IIT trained, who gave up white collar jobs and have taken to farming and earning millions every year and that too just outside Delhi.
We need to start a co-operative movement in agri sector so that the farmers at village level have direct access to market and do not have to sell their produce to Mandi brokers. They must be taught to hire transport of their own to send the produce directly to markets.
GROFERs pick up the stuff directly from the farmlands and transport them on their own directly to your homes. The place I stay, many guys come on their bikes to sell milk directly from their home dairies.

It'll work in urban center, but farmers in remote village can't do this due to lack of urban level connectivity and concentrated population.
 
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nair

nair
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Nov 30, 2017
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RIP.... Maoists manages to pull off some real attacks every now and then.....
 

vstol Jockey

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I don't get this part. On one side she came into power for what she did w.r.t Lal Bahadu Shastri with Soviet Russian help. On other side she called emergency to kill of naxals.
Is it like this:
She was pro-Russian-communist-factions and anti-China-communist-factions?
Yes. She was completely under the control of USSR and worked to finish of Chinese communism in India.

It'll work in urban center, but farmers in remote village can't do this due to lack of urban level connectivity and concentrated population.
If farmers can take the farm produce to mandis, they can also hire transport of their own thru cooperatives and do direct marketing. You may be shocked to know that coarse grinded wheat flour is far more nutricious than machine grinded wheat flour. Villagers can do the value addition within their homes and can sell it directly at much higher price. This will give employment to people within the villages. I come from a family of Zamindaars but in our house, during the days of my grand mother, our servents used to grind the wheat in our house. We never had chakki ka atta. Even the amount of mixing of gram, jawaar and makka was decided by my grand mother. We used to add a bit of salt to the flour to ensure that it soaks more of water and the moti roti used to be the tastiest I ever had. I asked my wife to learn it from my mother and there are times when I request my wife to make those roties for me. With tariwaali daal and lots of desi ghee, nothing to beat that taste.
The addition of salt allowed the water retention which allowed the roti dow to be beaten by hand and so it was called, "Pani kay haath ki Roti". It was not rolled but beaten by hand and used to be thick.
 

CountryFirst

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Dec 11, 2017
462
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Yes. She was completely under the control of USSR and worked to finish of Chinese communism in India.


If farmers can take the farm produce to mandis, they can also hire transport of their own thru cooperatives and do direct marketing. You may be shocked to know that coarse grinded wheat flour is far more nutricious than machine grinded wheat flour. Villagers can do the value addition within their homes and can sell it directly at much higher price. This will give employment to people within the villages. I come from a family of Zamindaars but in our house, during the days of my grand mother, our servents used to grind the wheat in our house. We never had chakki ka atta. Even the amount of mixing of gram, jawaar and makka was decided by my grand mother. We used to add a bit of salt to the flour to ensure that it soaks more of water and the moti roti used to be the tastiest I ever had. I asked my wife to learn it from my mother and there are times when I request my wife to make those roties for me. With tariwaali daal and lots of desi ghee, nothing to beat that taste.
The addition of salt allowed the water retention which allowed the roti dow to be beaten by hand and so it was called, "Pani kay haath ki Roti". It was not rolled but beaten by hand and used to be thick.

This is how it was done untill 15-20 years ago in Kerala also, notbecause of zamindars, but because of lack of machines and there being plenty of cheap manpower.
 
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suryakiran

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Dec 1, 2017
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Bangalore
The initial naxal rising was not against the government. It was specifically against the landlords. By the tribals. The failure to implement the land reforms, on the ground, by the GoI is what resulted in the naxal movement. Upper caste/class landlords did not want to lose control over the lands post independence. The naxal movement is a result of the failure of the government to protect the rights of the tribals at that point of time, against the exploitation of the landlords.

Having traveled in the interiors and having a friend's mother working in the naxal infested areas of Jharkhand, the problem is less a 'terrorist' problem and more a social/economic issue. Governance deficit, high-handedness by the gentry and systematic disregard to the plights of the lower class and tribals is what has led to the current state.

@Guynextdoor , comparing the US to India is fraught with problems. The tribals can be compared with the Native Americans who were systematically wiped out by the whites couple of centuries back. Is that a model to be followed?
 

CountryFirst

Active member
Dec 11, 2017
462
182
Bharat
Yes. She was completely under the control of USSR and worked to finish of Chinese communism in India.


If farmers can take the farm produce to mandis, they can also hire transport of their own thru cooperatives and do direct marketing. You may be shocked to know that coarse grinded wheat flour is far more nutricious than machine grinded wheat flour. Villagers can do the value addition within their homes and can sell it directly at much higher price. This will give employment to people within the villages. I come from a family of Zamindaars but in our house, during the days of my grand mother, our servents used to grind the wheat in our house. We never had chakki ka atta. Even the amount of mixing of gram, jawaar and makka was decided by my grand mother. We used to add a bit of salt to the flour to ensure that it soaks more of water and the moti roti used to be the tastiest I ever had. I asked my wife to learn it from my mother and there are times when I request my wife to make those roties for me. With tariwaali daal and lots of desi ghee, nothing to beat that taste.
The addition of salt allowed the water retention which allowed the roti dow to be beaten by hand and so it was called, "Pani kay haath ki Roti". It was not rolled but beaten by hand and used to be thick.

Cool I didn't know this. So that also means that the internal infighting between Soviet Russia and Communist China was strong??
 

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
5,936
11,544
New Delhi
This is how it was done untill 15-20 years ago in Kerala also, notbecause of zamindars, but because of lack of machines and there being plenty of cheap manpower.
Even today the coarse grind wheat is far superior to chakki grind flour of anykind including rice as the tempratures are low while using hand grinding and that helps retain all the nutrition in the wheat/Rice and also spices.

Cool I didn't know this. So that also means that the internal infighting between Soviet Russia and Communist China was strong??
USSR and China fought a war in mid 60s and after that they turned against eachother.
 

CountryFirst

Active member
Dec 11, 2017
462
182
Bharat
Even today the coarse grind wheat is far superior to chakki grind flour of anykind including rice as the tempratures are low while using hand grinding and that helps retain all the nutrition in the wheat/Rice and also spices.


USSR and China fought a war in mid 60s and after that they turned against eachother.

The small border war. I did't know they were competing for influence also in such scale since they always came as brothers against western capitalism.
 

Guynextdoor

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
3,867
1,035
India
The initial naxal rising was not against the government. It was specifically against the landlords. By the tribals. The failure to implement the land reforms, on the ground, by the GoI is what resulted in the naxal movement. Upper caste/class landlords did not want to lose control over the lands post independence. The naxal movement is a result of the failure of the government to protect the rights of the tribals at that point of time, against the exploitation of the landlords.

Having traveled in the interiors and having a friend's mother working in the naxal infested areas of Jharkhand, the problem is less a 'terrorist' problem and more a social/economic issue. Governance deficit, high-handedness by the gentry and systematic disregard to the plights of the lower class and tribals is what has led to the current state.

@Guynextdoor , comparing the US to India is fraught with problems. The tribals can be compared with the Native Americans who were systematically wiped out by the whites couple of centuries back. Is that a model to be followed?

I think the fundamental principle that people should get market oriented rates for what they possess is a universal principle. Notice that most of the time they fight for what they have been 'deprived'- usually land, resources that other people want because they want to make more money from it.

This is not a fundamentalist issue, this is an economic issue. Remove that and the entire naxalite problem will simply vanish. Look at only killing them without fixing the system (primarily because some crony capitalists find it profitable) and this will continue.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
14,520
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Mumbai
Have not deleted anything in the past 36 hours. And if this thread, no idea.
I've no idea who's moderating here. I call zarvan maulana & it's edited with a note name calling not allowed. Now, the subsequent post is edited saying quoted post is deleted. Someone's having a merry May 1st.