MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • JSF F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 28 12.7%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 171 77.7%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.7%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • SH F-18

    Votes: 11 5.0%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 6 2.7%

  • Total voters
    220

Hydra

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The opposite. Zero chance for MRFA.

The only reason Saab's participating is because of the value an Indian competition will create for the Gripen in other markets.
This man, Mr Jha had proved right in multiple occasions in past.


@Picdelamirand-oil does France is losing intrest in Indian MRCA2/MRFA tender after securing much orders from other countries? If yeas, Can't blame you guys. We are slower than the slowest slug in universe when comes to make any decision on anything, even "Bhoomi Devi" will loose patience in such scenarios.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
15,636
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This man, Mr Jha had proved right in multiple occasions in past.


@Picdelamirand-oil does France is losing intrest in Indian MRCA2/MRFA tender after securing much orders from other countries? If yeas, Can't blame you guys. We are slower than the slowest slug in universe when comes to make any decision on anything, even "Bhoomi Devi" will loose patience in such scenarios.

They have to meet the tender requirements. If they don't, then in comes L2.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Nov 30, 2017
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@Picdelamirand-oil does France is losing intrest in Indian MRCA2/MRFA tender after securing much orders from other countries? If yeas, Can't blame you guys. We are slower than the slowest slug in universe when comes to make any decision on anything, even "Bhoomi Devi" will loose patience in such scenarios.
So far we have exported 285 Rafales and we intend to produce 225 for France, which makes a total of 510. We have delivered 241 and there are still 269 to be delivered in about 10 years, so on average 27 per year. We can produce up to 33 Rafales per year, so it's clear that if we want to sell a few more, we have to stick to this production of 33 per year, but if we want to sell a lot, we need a second assembly line. Hence the interest for us to sell to India because that would allow us to open this second line.

It's easier for us to be patient now that we're full than before when we were starving.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
15,636
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So far we have exported 285 Rafales and we intend to produce 225 for France, which makes a total of 510. We have delivered 241 and there are still 269 to be delivered in about 10 years, so on average 27 per year. We can produce up to 33 Rafales per year, so it's clear that if we want to sell a few more, we have to stick to this production of 33 per year, but if we want to sell a lot, we need a second assembly line. Hence the interest for us to sell to India because that would allow us to open this second line.

It's easier for us to be patient now that we're full than before when we were starving.

The stress on the line will be very high from 2026 onwards, with UAE, France and Indonesia taking deliveries, with UAE alone looking at 20 per year.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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The stress on the line will be very high from 2026 onwards, with UAE, France and Indonesia taking deliveries, with UAE alone looking at 20 per year.
Yes but we define now the rate in 2022 + 3= 2025 and it will be 33 a year but the current rate was defined in 2019 and at this time the expectation for 2022 was ~4 for India ~6 for Qatar and some for France so the rate was 11 a year! and it will be a little bit more in 2023 due to greck order begining of 2021 which was expected since 2020 but the rate will reach 22/year only in 2024. So the stress is already here with Egypte.
For UAE deliveries will start from 2026 and will run until the end of 2030 (5 Years) so 16/years, so we will give 9 to Indonesia and 8 to France.
 
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A Person

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Dec 1, 2017
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This man, Mr Jha had proved right in multiple occasions in past.

do not feel the need to give India what it wants​
The question is, does India know what it wants?

Meanwhile:
“All ISE have been qualified and certified. ISE incorporation is underway on all aircraft at the moment,” another official said adding it is proceeding at a fast pace.​
The first Rafale for India, RB008, had made its maiden flight on October 30, 2018 in France. It was on this aircraft that the 13 ISE have been incorporated, tested and certified. RB stands for former IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria who as then Deputy Chief of IAF led the Indian negotiation team and had a major role in the contract negotiations.​
 
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randomradio

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Yes but we define now the rate in 2022 + 3= 2025 and it will be 33 a year but the current rate was defined in 2019 and at this time the expectation for 2022 was ~4 for India ~6 for Qatar and some for France so the rate was 11 a year! and it will be a little bit more in 2023 due to greck order begining of 2021 which was expected since 2020 but the rate will reach 22/year only in 2024. So the stress is already here with Egypte.
For UAE deliveries will start from 2026 and will run until the end of 2030 (5 Years) so 16/years, so we will give 9 to Indonesia and 8 to France.

Okay, so UAE is 26-31, that's 16 per year. And we have France and Indonesia at the same time.

I suppose if we add 26 for the IN in 2022 or even 2023, then the numbers from 2025 or 2026 will push it past the limit by default. Of course, there's Egypt's follow on orders too. And Qatar's potential 36 more. Iraq's 14. That's a potential 100+ without any new prospects.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Okay, so UAE is 26-31, that's 16 per year. And we have France and Indonesia at the same time.

I suppose if we add 26 for the IN in 2022 or even 2023, then the numbers from 2025 or 2026 will push it past the limit by default. Of course, there's Egypt's follow on orders too. And Qatar's potential 36 more. Iraq's 14. That's a potential 100+ without any new prospects.
Eric Trappier has just said on a radio programme that the Mérignac chain will be "densified", which probably means that it will exceed the production rate of 3 per month.
But it would be good if India decided to order planes so that we could open a second chain at your place, otherwise we'll end up opening it at Merignac.
 
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randomradio

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Eric Trappier has just said on a radio programme that the Mérignac chain will be "densified", which probably means that it will exceed the production rate of 3 per month.
But it would be good if India decided to order planes so that we could open a second chain at your place, otherwise we'll end up opening it at Merignac.

There's nothing much we can do about it though. There's no active program from the IAF except MRFA. So I don't think a follow-on for 36 is possible. If it was, then we would have seen an official announcement last year.

Dassault has to win the IN program on merit. The carriers are making the decision, not the IN or MoD.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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After MRO, Dassault plans to manufacture Rafale CKD at its DRAL facility in India.

France's Dassault will complete its Rafale fighter aircraft maintenance centre at its upcoming facility at Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) in Mihan SEZ in Nagpur by the end of 2022 or early 2023. The new facility will cater to the Indian Air Force and South Asian customers in the near future, but the groundwork is being laid that could lead to the assembly of Rafale jets in India to meet export demands, as the order book builds up after recent orders from the UAE and Indonesia.

Reliance Infrastructure is the majority shareholder in DRAL's 51:49 JV, but Dassault plans to obtain a 100% stake in DRAL before it can begin assembling Rafale jets in India. DRAL will be able to assemble two Rafale jets per month and 24 per year, which will match France's current production capacity. Most of the jets will be delivered as CKDs (Completely Knocked Down) and assembled in India.

Dassault already sources the Rafale's engine doors and pylons from India as part of its global supply chain for its global customers and other components will also be manufactured in India. Dassault has already offered to assemble the second batch of Rafale, if ordered by India, at the DRAL facility and is also ready to bid for the MRFA tender for 114 jets, which involves further technology transfer (ToT) and local sourcing.

While the assembly of Rafale in India is still under consideration, the French company Dassault has recently concluded numerous agreements for the supply of Rafale jets with many countries, and the DRAL facility in India will play a crucial role as part of its global supply chain and later also in the upgrade and service of these jets.

170510ext2.jpg
 
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thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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After MRO, Dassault plans to manufacture Rafale CKD at its DRAL facility in India.

France's Dassault will complete its Rafale fighter aircraft maintenance centre at its upcoming facility at Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) in Mihan SEZ in Nagpur by the end of 2022 or early 2023. The new facility will cater to the Indian Air Force and South Asian customers in the near future, but the groundwork is being laid that could lead to the assembly of Rafale jets in India to meet export demands, as the order book builds up after recent orders from the UAE and Indonesia.

Reliance Infrastructure is the majority shareholder in DRAL's 51:49 JV, but Dassault plans to obtain a 100% stake in DRAL before it can begin assembling Rafale jets in India. DRAL will be able to assemble two Rafale jets per month and 24 per year, which will match France's current production capacity. Most of the jets will be delivered as CKDs (Completely Knocked Down) and assembled in India.

Dassault already sources the Rafale's engine doors and pylons from India as part of its global supply chain for its global customers and other components will also be manufactured in India. Dassault has already offered to assemble the second batch of Rafale, if ordered by India, at the DRAL facility and is also ready to bid for the MRFA tender for 114 jets, which involves further technology transfer (ToT) and local sourcing.

While the assembly of Rafale in India is still under consideration, the French company Dassault has recently concluded numerous agreements for the supply of Rafale jets with many countries, and the DRAL facility in India will play a crucial role as part of its global supply chain and later also in the upgrade and service of these jets.

170510ext2.jpg
That's a CGI facility. I think that the actual one looks like rubbish as of now.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Bon Plan

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Problem is there are people in India pushing Tejas as Mmrca replacement, atleast from ametures.
Tejas, evn in Mk2 variant remains a light bird.
MMRCA is for a medium bird. It's not impossible amount of the total Qty move from MMRCA to Tejas, but only a part.
As say for years, my total figure for Rafale in IAF is between 72 and 108. Not more (for IAF ! IN may take some others)