MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • JSF F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 28 12.7%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 171 77.7%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.7%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • SH F-18

    Votes: 11 5.0%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 6 2.7%

  • Total voters
    220

randomradio

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The problem is f-35 brings more American oversight than being in an actual treaty alliance with America.

Most countries, especially in Europe, honestly don't care about this. It's more like the benefits of a much closer relationship with the US outweigh the cons. Also, their "oversight" isn't really a big problem even for countries like India, let alone Europe. Like the Americans want to protect their communication and encryption systems. Such things don't bother even India.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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What's special about the F-35 is unlike all other US jets, the F-35 is a one-man army. It doesn't require the assistance of support aircraft for intelligence gathering and EW. So it's pretty much the best option for non-NATO countries for interoperability with NATO.
Rafale also doesn't require the assistance of support aircraft for intelligence gathering and EW and it doesn't require ALIS or ODIN too... (y)
 

randomradio

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Rafale also doesn't require the assistance of support aircraft for intelligence gathering and EW and it doesn't require ALIS or ODIN too... (y)

Yes. But the drawback being it cannot communicate as well with US assets like the F-35 can.

So the F-35 in Europe has more advantages if you have Russia as an adversary since the US and other F-35 operators are likely to fight alongside you. Most Rafale operators outside Europe will not be communicating with French assets, so there is no advantage of interoperability. Inside Europe, the American presence is still greater than French presence, with 7 NATO operators of the F-35.

You may not have much regard for ALIS/ODIN, but for Finland emergency supplies and attrition replacements are more readily available from multiple sources. A loss of 30-40 F-35s can easily be replaced by allies overnight.

So, F-35's one man army + interoperability + logistics versus Rafale's one man army.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Seventh batch of QEAF Rafales delivered

The seventh batch of Al-Quwwat Al-Jawiyyah Al-Amiriyyah Al-Qatariyyah (QEAF, Qatar Emiri Air Force) Dassault Rafales departed Bordeaux/Mérignac (France) on delivery to Qatar on 9 November 2021.

1636494106183.png

The three aircraft involved are all Rafale DQ two-seaters. The fighters were accompanied by a QEAF C-17A Globemaster III registered (A7-)MAO and a Qatar Airways Amiri Flight Airbus A340-211 registered A7-HHK. Both transporters arrived a few days before.

The following Rafales were delivered:

Rafale DQ: QA201, QA208 and QA209 as ADIYAT11, ADIYAT12 and ADIYAT13
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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France To Sign Multi-Billion Rafale Fighter Jet Deal With The UAE During Macron’s Visit To Abu Dhabi – French Media

France is close to finalizing a Rafale fighter jet deal with the UAE. According to French media, the potential deal could involve the F-4 variant of the multi-role combat aircraft.

Reports suggest that if negotiations progress at this pace, an announcement could be made before the end of this year. The French media also reported that President Emmanuel Macron will visit Abu Dhabi on December 2, followed by visits to Doha (Qatar) and Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) on December 3 and 4.

The agreement might be announced during his visit, boosting his image significantly before the end of his five-year tenure. However, no official announcement has been made by the French government.

Since 2009, the UAE has shown interest in the Rafale F4 standard. The fact that these claims surfaced so soon after the US confirmed its willingness to proceed with the sale of F-35 fighter jets to the UAE, with somewhat “additional obligations” before and after delivery, is striking.

France-UAE Ties Post-AUKUS

The visit of UAE Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan to France in September has been linked to Emirati-French efforts to forge a new alliance to cover the purported gap left by Washington’s disengagement from the Arab Gulf region.

There has been a sense of waning of American commitment to Gulf security since the outset of President Joe Biden’s administration.

This was sparked by the United States’ move to lessen its military presence in the region, including the withdrawal of the Patriot air-defense missile system and a restriction on arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

UAE-France
UAE Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed and President Emmanuel Macron in Paris, on September 15, 2021. (via Twitter)

Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed’s visit to Paris, according to UAE Ambassador to France Hend Al Otaiba, was a chance to showcase the two countries’ excellent strategic alliance, emphasizing their coherent goal and determination to develop further cooperation.
Furthermore, as one of Washington’s oldest allies, France has suffered severe embarrassment as a consequence of the AUKUS pact involving Australia, the UK, and the US. And now, France and the UAE want to play a bigger role in the region and are working together militarily and economically.

Status Of The Rafale Deal

According to the Arab Weekly, Sheikh Mohammed may count on his special relationship with Macron, as well as the UAE’s significant investment in France, to seal a deal for Rafale jet fighters.

This will be part of a larger Emirati effort to diversify its armament sources. Since 2009, the UAE and France have discussed the procurement of 60 Rafale combat aircraft.

According to military experts, the aircraft’s combat record in Afghanistan in 2007, Libya in 2011, and the Sahel region in 2013 earned it a global reputation. The UAE is already a customer of the French arms manufacturers. It has 436 Leclerc assault tanks with its army.

In terms of Franco-Gulf trade, the UAE has also become a vital strategic partner for France in the Middle East, second only to Saudi Arabia. In the battle against terror, the two nations maintain a strong partnership.

Additionally, Egypt entered into a contract worth €3.75 billion ($4.5 billion) to purchase 30 Rafale combat jets in May and this is expected to further encourage the UAE to buy the Rafale fighter jets.

Prior to this, Macron had advocated arms sales to Gulf countries. He referred to Riyadh and Abu Dhabi as allies in the fight against terrorism, emphasizing that Paris had gained assurances that these countries would not use these weapons against civilians.

There is a possibility that the UAE will buy both F-35 and Rafale fighter jets, but there is a fine distinction between the two. While the Rafale will provide them with more operational autonomy, the American platform will come with certain pre-conditions. The Rafale could also be an excellent replacement for the UAE’s Mirage-2000 fighters.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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These are the reasons that prompted the Emirates to choose the Rafale aircraft

2021-11-20 Military News , Regional News Military , United Arab Emirates


French President Emmanuel Macron will travel to the United Arab Emirates in early December, according to two well-informed officials.
Bloomberg news agency reported that the officials refused to provide details, while a spokeswoman for Macron's office did not confirm the news of the visit.

Challenges quoted unnamed sources as saying that progress has been made in talks on selling Rafale fighter jets to the UAE, and the deal may be announced before the end of the year.

Challenges said the deal could include as many as 30 aircrafts.

And a specialist in the field of military aviation, Mina Adel, commented in an interview with the Arab Defense website about the issue, saying: “The reason for the success of the Emirati-French talks regarding the Rafale planes is the French’s reliance on an attempt to draw attention to the technological advantages of the fighter, such as monitoring, jamming and obstruction systems, and armament, which is one of the The best in the world right now.”

220151223317-660x330.jpeg

Adel added, "The French were able to persuade the Emiratis to buy the Rafale fighter, by showing the result of its use in more than one theater of operations."

According to Adel, this year France participated in two exercises in the UAE, the first is called "Desert Flag", in which the Rafale plane was tested against the F-16 fighters of the Bahraini and Emirati Air Force, and the Mirage 2000-9 of the UAE Air Force, and aircraft "F - 15" American aircraft and the "Su -30" subsidiary of air force Indian, showed strong results of the French plane. "

Adel pointed out that the French fighter proved itself in the face of the American "Patriot" systems in the exercises of the second "Skyros", in which Squadron 3/30 Lorraine participated.
 

randomradio

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New Delhi: As India looks to acquire 114 new medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to shore up its depleting strength, Swedish defence major SAAB has pitched for a complete Transfer of Technology (TOT) and local production of its Gripen fighter jet at “half” the cost of French alternative Rafale.

SAAB India’s chairman and managing director (CMD) Ola Rignell made the cost claims in an interview to ThePrint, but added that he wouldn’t be surprised if India went in for additional 36 Rafale fighters in the coming years, circumventing the ongoing process to acquire new jets in larger numbers.

“India bought 36 Rafale fighter jets from France off the shelf. SAAB and Brazil also signed a contract in 2015 for the sale and local manufacturing of 36 Gripen. The cost was half of what the value of the Indian deal was,” said Rignell, referring to Brazil’s $4.68 billion deal with SAAB to manufacture the Gripen locally.

“We are setting up an entire aviation ecosystem in Brazil. And the experience and knowledge that Brazil is gaining from this manufacturing is being used by them to design their indigenous fighter aircraft,” the SAAB India CMD said.

In 2012, EADS’s Eurofighter and Dassault Aviation’s Rafale had emerged as the winner of the 2007 MMRCA bid, with the latter being the lowest bidder. But the contract negotiations got stuck over prices. Three years later, the Modi government cancelled the protracted talks and decided to buy 36 Rafale fighters in fly-away condition in a €7.87 billion deal.

Now, France is offering another 36 Rafale fighter jets in a government-to-government deal. But these numbers will not suffice in view of the Indian Air Force (IAF)’s MMRCA requirements.

During the interview last week, Rignell spoke about what the company is offering to India, his expectations, and the issue surrounding its sales to Pakistan.

‘Gripen cheaper than Rafale’
Speaking to ThePrint, Ola Rignell highlighted the efficiency of SAAB’s single-engine multirole fighter aircraft vis-à-vis the Rafale, which is being called a game changer for the IAF in the region due to its weapons package.

Gripen has the same weapons package as Rafale including the Meteor air-to-air missile, said Rignell.

“All NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation) missiles are integrated with the Gripen. The only one which is missing is SCALP because it is a French missile. But if India wants, we can integrate the SCALP also though Gripen already has a substitute,” said Rignell.

He pointed out that European missile manufacturer MBDA, which makes both Meteor and SCALP, actually found Gripen as the most mature jet to test their missiles on.

“MBDA ‘test beded’ the Meteor on a Gripen. They found the Gripen to be the most mature. Eighty per cent of Meteor firing tests took place from a Gripen,” he said.

Rignell added that Gripen will always be cheaper in comparison to Rafale in life cycle costs as well because of its single-engine build.

‘Would not be surprised’
SAAB’s India chief said the defence major is offering the best deal to the country, but he won’t be surprised if India opted to buy another 36 Rafale jet from France.

“I would not be surprised,” said Ola Rignell. But he noted that the additional 36 jets will not fulfill the IAF’s requirement.


“The original 36 Rafale was bought when the IAF needed 126 MMRCA. Now there is an RFI (Request for Information) for 114 aircraft. Additional 36 Rafale would still not fulfill what the IAF actually not just wants but needs,” he said.

India and France have already spoken about the latter’s proposal for 36 additional Rafale jets, but New Delhi hasn’t disclosed any information about such a move.

No fresh deal with Pakistan
While Saab is offering the Gripen fighters to India, it is also providing the early warning aircraft system to Pakistan — an issue that has upset the IAF.

Pakistan used the SAAB-manufactured early warning aircraft system to coordinate its attack on an Indian military installation in Jammu and Kashmir a day after the Balakot strike earlier in February.

During his visit to Sweden in June this year, Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa had expressed his displeasure with the defence major for supplying Pakistan with early warning systems and also offering Gripen fighters to India.

New Delhi is of the view that it will be difficult to do business with a country that also arms the enemy.

In a bid to pacify the IAF, Ola Rignell persisted that SAAB is not selling any new products to Pakistan.

He also pointed out that every contender has dealt with Pakistan, and other assets were also used in the post-Balakot action.

Pakistan had used French fighters Mirage as well American F-16s.

However, Rignell remained non-committal on future sales to Pakistan, saying the Swedish government decides on such matters and not the company.

“As far as I know, we are not selling any new products to that country (Pakistan). There is an old order and we are fulfilling our contract obligation,” Rignell said.

The Pakistan Air Force had ordered three new SAAB 2000 early warning aircraft in 2017 to supplement the ones that were destroyed in a terror attack on Minhas air base five years before that.

Rignell added that he was part of the meeting in Sweden when Dhanoa raised the issue and this is exactly what he had told him as well.

“We are trying to sell the latest AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) — Golden Eye — to India. We have sold them to UAE. (But) India is already working on its indigenous systems,” he said.

India operates the IL76 ‘Phalcon’ AWACS as well as the Embraer ‘Netra’ early warning aircraft.
 
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A Person

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New Delhi: As India looks to acquire 114 new medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to shore up its depleting strength, Swedish defence major SAAB has pitched for a complete Transfer of Technology (TOT) and local production of its Gripen fighter jet at “half” the cost of French alternative Rafale.
The Swedes are so cute when they propose "complete transfer of technology" for the Gripen.

nCAXS4J.jpg

Adorable!
 

randomradio

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The Swedes are so cute when they propose "complete transfer of technology" for the Gripen.

nCAXS4J.jpg

Adorable!

This is for the older Gripen though. The newer one has a lot more Swedish components. Anyway, the main draw about their ToT offer is they are willing to provide 100% ToT on electronics, particularly a new radar and the EW suite. All other competitors have not made such an offer.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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This is for the older Gripen though. The newer one has a lot more Swedish components. Anyway, the main draw about their ToT offer is they are willing to provide 100% ToT on electronics, particularly a new radar and the EW suite. All other competitors have not made such an offer.

How about Buying GRIPEN and then Equipping it with SCORPIUS or KHIBINY Jammers

 

randomradio

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Picdelamirand-oil

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Pourquoi le Rafale a fini par atterrir aux Emirats Arabes Unis

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Why the Rafale finally landed in the UAE


There are three reasons why the Rafale finally landed in the UAE: the maturity of the French fighter; the F-35, a dependency aircraft; and the special relationship between France and Abu Dhabi

The success of the Rafale in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), the sixth country to export the French fighter, comes at the end of a very long and often thwarted history between France, in particular Dassault Aviation, and Abu Dhabi. But the French government has managed to renew the threads of an important strategic relationship despite the three failures of the Rafale in the UAE, including the one at the end of 2011. At the Dubai Airshow, Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, who was already the UAE's strongman, said that Dassault Aviation's commercial proposal for 60 Rafales was "uncompetitive". A statement that had the effect of an icy shower in Paris.

Ten years later, relations of trust have been patiently renewed with the Emirates' strongman since the arrival of François Hollande and his Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian. A painstaking task continued by Emmanuel Macron and his Minister of the Armed Forces Florence Parly. These close relations maintained over the long term have made it possible to achieve this long-awaited success in this country, which is strategically very important for France on the geopolitical level. As is Egypt, for that matter.

The Rafale, a more mature aircraft

For a long time the Emiratis asked Dassault Aviation for a Rafale, which did not yet exist. An aircraft that would have had to be developed at a cost of billions. Hence the very high price tag presented in 2011 by the manufacturer. This had particularly ruffled the feathers of the Crown Prince, who complained at the time of a significant price gap between his estimates and those of Dassault Aviation. Ten years later, the Rafale's performance is close to the operational requirements of the Emirates, which are buying the F4 standard, the same as that of the French air force. Moreover, the Rafale's performance during its many sorties in French external operations has been widely dissected by the Emirates.

Currently under development in France, the Rafale's F4 standard will be put into service in two successive stages in France, in 2023 and then in 2025, in order to benefit from the most advanced technologies and innovations of the moment as soon as they become available. Validation of the F4 standard is planned for 2024, with some functions available from 2022. The Emiratis' choice is therefore a real sign of confidence in France on the part of Abu Dhabi and Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed (MBZ) while the aircraft is still under development.

The F-35, an aircraft of dependencies

By buying the Rafale, the Emiratis are sure to be able to use it as they please with the required performance. This is not really the case with the F-35, the American aircraft from Lockheed Martin. This particularly annoyed MBZ during its discussions with the Americans, although it initially wanted this aircraft. For two reasons. Without confirmation of the maintenance of the military technological superiority QME (Qualitative Military Edge) by Washington, Israel would never have accepted the sale of the F-35, such a sophisticated weapon system, to the UAE. As a result, the Emirati F-35s would have been degraded ("de-rigged") in their capabilities, especially in terms of sensors and weapons, in order to guarantee the Israeli armed forces air supremacy in case of a reversal of alliances.

Moreover, the F-35 remains a fighter aircraft with a very short leash for the countries that buy it from the Americans. An electronic system for maintenance, diagnostics, supply chain management and fleet management of aircraft sold for export is operated directly by the Hybrid Product Support Integration (HPSI) agency, a joint agency between Lockheed Martin and the US Department of Defense. The F-35 remains an aircraft of dependencies, not of independence and operational autonomy. Like France, the United States has discovered in MBZ a very demanding customer who is not willing to accept just anything. This does not mean that the F-35 will never land in Abu Dhabi.

France and the UAE, strategic partners

Notwithstanding the Greens, France has a very important strategic partnership with the United Arab Emirates, a key player in the resolution of tensions and conflicts in the region. They do not hesitate to conduct a foreign policy that differs from that of its large neighbour, Saudi Arabia, on a case by case basis. On 1 January they will become non-permanent members of the UN Security Council and will host the COP 28 climate summit in November 2023. France, which maintains a joint military base in the UAE, often relies on MBZ's interpersonal skills to advance crucial issues in the region.

This partnership was reinforced during Emmanuel Macron's visit. As the president said on Friday in Dubai, it follows an agenda with several directions: "peace and stability in the region, the fight against all extremes, the fight against terrorism, and very concrete cooperation on sensitive situations. The Emiratis have also been at the side of the French in Operation Apagan, an evacuation operation organised by the French armed forces following the capture of Kabul by the Taliban in August 2021. The UAE has been "admirable", according to Paris.

In addition, the UAE, like many other countries, has noted the disengagement of the Americans in the Middle East. This is pushing them to diversify their political and strategic partnerships as well as their arms supplies, including France. "I always place our commercial and military agreements within the framework" of a strategic partnership, said the French president. This is the case for the sale of the 80 Rafales sold to the UAE.

Michel Cabirol
 

_Anonymous_

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Pourquoi le Rafale a fini par atterrir aux Emirats Arabes Unis

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Why the Rafale finally landed in the UAE


There are three reasons why the Rafale finally landed in the UAE: the maturity of the French fighter; the F-35, a dependency aircraft; and the special relationship between France and Abu Dhabi

The success of the Rafale in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), the sixth country to export the French fighter, comes at the end of a very long and often thwarted history between France, in particular Dassault Aviation, and Abu Dhabi. But the French government has managed to renew the threads of an important strategic relationship despite the three failures of the Rafale in the UAE, including the one at the end of 2011. At the Dubai Airshow, Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, who was already the UAE's strongman, said that Dassault Aviation's commercial proposal for 60 Rafales was "uncompetitive". A statement that had the effect of an icy shower in Paris.

Ten years later, relations of trust have been patiently renewed with the Emirates' strongman since the arrival of François Hollande and his Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian. A painstaking task continued by Emmanuel Macron and his Minister of the Armed Forces Florence Parly. These close relations maintained over the long term have made it possible to achieve this long-awaited success in this country, which is strategically very important for France on the geopolitical level. As is Egypt, for that matter.

The Rafale, a more mature aircraft

For a long time the Emiratis asked Dassault Aviation for a Rafale, which did not yet exist. An aircraft that would have had to be developed at a cost of billions. Hence the very high price tag presented in 2011 by the manufacturer. This had particularly ruffled the feathers of the Crown Prince, who complained at the time of a significant price gap between his estimates and those of Dassault Aviation. Ten years later, the Rafale's performance is close to the operational requirements of the Emirates, which are buying the F4 standard, the same as that of the French air force. Moreover, the Rafale's performance during its many sorties in French external operations has been widely dissected by the Emirates.

Currently under development in France, the Rafale's F4 standard will be put into service in two successive stages in France, in 2023 and then in 2025, in order to benefit from the most advanced technologies and innovations of the moment as soon as they become available. Validation of the F4 standard is planned for 2024, with some functions available from 2022. The Emiratis' choice is therefore a real sign of confidence in France on the part of Abu Dhabi and Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed (MBZ) while the aircraft is still under development.

The F-35, an aircraft of dependencies

By buying the Rafale, the Emiratis are sure to be able to use it as they please with the required performance. This is not really the case with the F-35, the American aircraft from Lockheed Martin. This particularly annoyed MBZ during its discussions with the Americans, although it initially wanted this aircraft. For two reasons. Without confirmation of the maintenance of the military technological superiority QME (Qualitative Military Edge) by Washington, Israel would never have accepted the sale of the F-35, such a sophisticated weapon system, to the UAE. As a result, the Emirati F-35s would have been degraded ("de-rigged") in their capabilities, especially in terms of sensors and weapons, in order to guarantee the Israeli armed forces air supremacy in case of a reversal of alliances.

Moreover, the F-35 remains a fighter aircraft with a very short leash for the countries that buy it from the Americans. An electronic system for maintenance, diagnostics, supply chain management and fleet management of aircraft sold for export is operated directly by the Hybrid Product Support Integration (HPSI) agency, a joint agency between Lockheed Martin and the US Department of Defense. The F-35 remains an aircraft of dependencies, not of independence and operational autonomy. Like France, the United States has discovered in MBZ a very demanding customer who is not willing to accept just anything. This does not mean that the F-35 will never land in Abu Dhabi.

France and the UAE, strategic partners

Notwithstanding the Greens, France has a very important strategic partnership with the United Arab Emirates, a key player in the resolution of tensions and conflicts in the region. They do not hesitate to conduct a foreign policy that differs from that of its large neighbour, Saudi Arabia, on a case by case basis. On 1 January they will become non-permanent members of the UN Security Council and will host the COP 28 climate summit in November 2023. France, which maintains a joint military base in the UAE, often relies on MBZ's interpersonal skills to advance crucial issues in the region.

This partnership was reinforced during Emmanuel Macron's visit. As the president said on Friday in Dubai, it follows an agenda with several directions: "peace and stability in the region, the fight against all extremes, the fight against terrorism, and very concrete cooperation on sensitive situations. The Emiratis have also been at the side of the French in Operation Apagan, an evacuation operation organised by the French armed forces following the capture of Kabul by the Taliban in August 2021. The UAE has been "admirable", according to Paris.

In addition, the UAE, like many other countries, has noted the disengagement of the Americans in the Middle East. This is pushing them to diversify their political and strategic partnerships as well as their arms supplies, including France. "I always place our commercial and military agreements within the framework" of a strategic partnership, said the French president. This is the case for the sale of the 80 Rafales sold to the UAE.

Michel Cabirol
This article is practically admitting that Dassault won because of extraneous reasons & not on it's own merits. That if relations between the US & it's gulf allies weren't so uncertain thanks to Biden's policy of indifference, his re engagement with Iran, initial refusal to see the F-35 over ruling Trump's decision to sell them the JSF, followed by rescinding the decision to the deal being stalled by Congress & the all strings attached deal that usually accompanied the JSF, the UAE finally had enough & decided to snub the US.

In some ways this perhaps compensates for the shoddy treatment the French received at the hands on the Australians. You win some, you lose some.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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This article is practically admitting that Dassault won because of extraneous reasons & not on it's own merits. That if relations between the US & it's gulf allies weren't so uncertain thanks to Biden's policy of indifference, his re engagement with Iran, initial refusal to see the F-35 over ruling Trump's decision to sell them the JSF, followed by rescinding the decision to the deal being stalled by Congress & the all strings attached deal that usually accompanied the JSF, the UAE finally had enough & decided to snub the US.

In some ways this perhaps compensates for the shoddy treatment the French received at the hands on the Australians. You win some, you lose some.
You just forget that:
Ten years later, the Rafale's performance is close to the operational requirements of the Emirates, which are buying the F4 standard, the same as that of the French air force. Moreover, the Rafale's performance during its many sorties in French external operations has been widely dissected by the Emirates.
[...]
The Emiratis' choice is therefore a real sign of confidence in France on the part of Abu Dhabi and Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed (MBZ) while the aircraft is still under development.
 

_Anonymous_

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You just forget that:
Quite frankly, 10 yrs ago the objections were to the price tag. Moreover there's no clarification on what the UAE's reservations were on the technical front then & what caused the UAE to be satisfied with the Rafale today. Besides, 10 yrs ago there was no inkling on when the F-35 would come into service leave aside whether they would be offered to the US's gulf allies like the UAE.

In a way, barring Peru & Taiwan, Dassault has been able to retain the entire customer base it sold the Mirage - 2000 too with Croatia as a bonus customer .
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Quite frankly, 10 yrs ago the objections were to the price tag. Moreover there's no clarification on what the UAE's reservations were on the technical front then & what caused the UAE to be satisfied with the Rafale today.
I think I have already explained the point you are making:


And I would add that the Emiratis now have a very good knowledge of the Rafale, because we have a base there equipped with Rafales. For example, they asked for a 9t thrust engine, probably to have a dick contest with the Typhoon. But the ATLC exercise where the Typhoon lost 4:0 and then 3:1 against the Rafale, which had weapons with reduced capacities compared to the corresponding real weapons, took place at their base. They organised the match and therefore know exactly what happened. The conclusion is that they no longer require the 9t thrust engines. And it's probably the same story for the other characteristics.

Besides, 10 yrs ago there was no inkling on when the F-35 would come into service leave aside whether they would be offered to the US's gulf allies like the UAE.
10 years ago was 2011/12 and at this time the F-35 FOC was planned for 2018. :sick: :cool:
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Corporal Frisk is well known to the Finns who are interested in the Finnish tender for the replacement of their F-18. He tested the different participants in this tender in a scenario he created. He himself says that there is not enough information for the exercise to rank the participants, but that it has allowed him to be surprised by the efficiency or weakness of some participants when confronted with realistic situations.

Wargames

 
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