Malaysian tender for Light Combat Aircraft

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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May be.
Because big ticket indigenous items got full support from Govt and to some extent military also.
For now US is avoiding India from any kind of friction.
Because Chinese together Russians are kicking from all sides.
This is also an opportunity to us also.
This US Chinese duel will continue in coming decades.GoI is planning for that opportunity also.
S400 deal didnt go well with Americans.

So in a way a USSR type fate shouldnt occur to Chinese.If that happens West will turn against us.
Its obvious because after all this backstabbing Americans still have relation with Paxtan

It's gonna be a multipolar world in the future. Everybody's gonna be playing all the sides. So it's important that we get some or most of the ASEAN on our side so that we have less problems from neighbours, like it's the case with the US, and that will allow us to deal with other neighbours and powers outside our influence. The key to that is Indonesia and Malaysia.

Nepal and Lanka will eventually fall to our side. BD is headed that way. Can't do much about Pakistan, unless we invade it or it collapses, and China.

IOR is mainly dominated by outside powers, but if ASEAN falls to the Indian side, it will allow us to completely dominate BoB. It can become a death sentence to any opposition navy that enters those waters.

US, Russia and Europe are irrelevant to India's own standing in the future.
 
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Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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Between the two, I will take Malaysia any day over Indos, as the latter is highly unreliable trade partner and has history of siding with our enemies during war and even claiming our terrorists ridiculously.
Also Malaysia has a lot of Malay people who are much more sympathetic to us and Malaysia being a much more developed country, give us a huge advantage in ASEAN region.
The so called DR,Mr Zakir Naik wants to say hi to u.
 

thinkingcap81

Active member
Jun 2, 2019
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Reasonable. Any nation would want atleast 1 user of the offered product.
Not going for Tejas would make sense for Malaysia - (i) it will not anger Xi, (ii) it won't make the Malaysian Air force have a true 4+ gen fighter and so no neighbour will be rattled, (iii) keeps the Malaysians close to the Western block, (iv) does not make the Malaysians vulnerable to the anti-Muslim bias of the ruling BJP.

A failure will nudge HAL and other DPSUs improve their services especially since the ruling BJP may not have patience with them and is actively involving the private sector.

I think that since the BJP govt wants to increase defence exports and the prestige of our defence manufacturing, this setback (if it does happen) will make them a little vary about pandering to the vote bank. Some form of nationalism and pride about Hinduism is fine and necessary, but it should not come at the cost of peddling unhistorical facts and increasing irrational hatred against the minorities expecially in the 21st century. We should have Israel's strength but not the fanaticism displayed by a significant chunk of the Jews.
 

Ankit Kumar

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Not going for Tejas would make sense for Malaysia - (i) it will not anger Xi, (ii) it won't make the Malaysian Air force have a true 4+ gen fighter and so no neighbour will be rattled, (iii) keeps the Malaysians close to the Western block, (iv) does not make the Malaysians vulnerable to the anti-Muslim bias of the ruling BJP.

A failure will nudge HAL and other DPSUs improve their services especially since the ruling BJP may not have patience with them and is actively involving the private sector.

I think that since the BJP govt wants to increase defence exports and the prestige of our defence manufacturing, this setback (if it does happen) will make them a little vary about pandering to the vote bank. Some form of nationalism and pride about Hinduism is fine and necessary, but it should not come at the cost of peddling unhistorical facts and increasing irrational hatred against the minorities expecially in the 21st century. We should have Israel's strength but not the fanaticism displayed by a significant chunk of the Jews.
Or simply that the twin seater LCA is still not in service was the reason?
We need to remember the primary requirement was for training.
 
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thinkingcap81

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Or simply that the twin seater LCA is still not in service was the reason?
We need to remember the primary requirement was for training.
The MK1 trainer is in service. The Mk1A trainer isn't a quantum leap over it. They may not be getting additional refurbished F18s, their Su 30 MKMs are costly to maintain. Why do they need so many trainers when they can just go for additional Hawks?
 

randomradio

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Or simply that the twin seater LCA is still not in service was the reason?
We need to remember the primary requirement was for training.

The MK1 trainer is in service. The Mk1A trainer isn't a quantum leap over it. They may not be getting additional refurbished F18s, their Su 30 MKMs are costly to maintain. Why do they need so many trainers when they can just go for additional Hawks?

The article is biased. It's only favouring the two aircraft because they are older and have export customers.

It's funny that there is no mention of Tejas anywhere in the article. It already has everything that the article suggests is being put on the other "safe" jets, and there is quite literally no safer choice than the IAF also operating the same jet.

So we should take the usual stand, don't believe unnamed sources.

The twin-seat is gonna enter service long before the Malaysians get their first jet.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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The MK1 trainer is in service. The Mk1A trainer isn't a quantum leap over it. They may not be getting additional refurbished F18s, their Su 30 MKMs are costly to maintain. Why do they need so many trainers when they can just go for additional Hawks?
No trainer is in service as of today as far as I know. Those twin seaters flying today are not of production standards.

18 (8 mk1 and 10 Mk1A ) twin seaters will be of same configuration and their assembly will start soon. Non are in service as of yet.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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The article is biased. It's only favouring the two aircraft because they are older and have export customers.

It's funny that there is no mention of Tejas anywhere in the article. It already has everything that the article suggests is being put on the other "safe" jets, and there is quite literally no safer choice than the IAF also operating the same jet.

So we should take the usual stand, don't believe unnamed sources.

The twin-seat is gonna enter service long before the Malaysians get their first jet.
Super sonic flight was deemed important by the Malaysians , by those standards the Italian one should not have qualified. Anyways I didn't had much expectations here. Lets see what happens.
 

randomradio

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Super sonic flight was deemed important by the Malaysians , by those standards the Italian one should not have qualified. Anyways I didn't had much expectations here. Lets see what happens.

It's the opposite for me. I have more expectations in Malaysia than anywhere else.
 

Ankit Kumar

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It's the opposite for me. I have more expectations in Malaysia than anywhere else.
The issue I see is that they want everything Israeli replaced. So without those as of today FA50 can fire AIM9 while LCA is stuck with R73 then. No Derby too. Problem with Radar too. But FA50 has the option of AN/APG67. FA50 always had the upper hand.

After South Koreans took the deal away in Pillipeans.. we should be aware of them.
 
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randomradio

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The issue I see is that they want everything Israeli replaced. So without those as of today FA50 can fire AIM9 while LCA is stuck with R73 then. No Derby too. Problem with Radar too. But FA50 has the option of AN/APG67. FA50 always had the upper hand.

After South Koreans took the deal away in Pillipeans.. we should be aware of them.

LCA has far superior European and Indian weapons options compared to the old Aim-120 and 9X. FA-50 is stuck with Israeli equipment, there's no guarantee of America releasing its tech for the FA-50, whereas the LCA already has a non-Israeli roadmap for Muslim countries. And the avionics on the LCA are also naturally superior, like the Uttam AESA over the old APG-67. Not to mention stuff that were developed with Israeli help, like Mayawi, are pretty much Indian IP. A lot of other tech being developed with foreign assistance will be fully Indian owned.

The LCA has a roadmap for the replacement of British tech for Argentina as well.

Every single advantage needed to win the competition is in LCA's favour, technology, offsets, security of supply and payment terms. The only thing not completely in favour is politics.
 

Ankit Kumar

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LCA has far superior European and Indian weapons options compared to the old Aim-120 and 9X. FA-50 is stuck with Israeli equipment, there's no guarantee of America releasing its tech for the FA-50, whereas the LCA already has a non-Israeli roadmap for Muslim countries. And the avionics on the LCA are also naturally superior, like the Uttam AESA over the old APG-67. Not to mention stuff that were developed with Israeli help, like Mayawi, are pretty much Indian IP. A lot of other tech being developed with foreign assistance will be fully Indian owned.

The LCA has a roadmap for the replacement of British tech for Argentina as well.

Every single advantage needed to win the competition is in LCA's favour, technology, offsets, security of supply and payment terms. The only thing not completely in favour is politics.
A lot of that is in development for LCA. They will ask for what's available/certified today.
 

randomradio

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A lot of that is in development for LCA. They will ask for what's available/certified today.

Pretty much everything is ready. In fact, compared to what everyone else is offering, the LCA Mk1 itself is more advanced than any competitor, never mind Mk1A.
 

jk007

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Apr 9, 2020
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Not going for Tejas would make sense for Malaysia - (i) it will not anger Xi, (ii) it won't make the Malaysian Air force have a true 4+ gen fighter and so no neighbour will be rattled, (iii) keeps the Malaysians close to the Western block, (iv) does not make the Malaysians vulnerable to the anti-Muslim bias of the ruling BJP.

A failure will nudge HAL and other DPSUs improve their services especially since the ruling BJP may not have patience with them and is actively involving the private sector.

I think that since the BJP govt wants to increase defence exports and the prestige of our defence manufacturing, this setback (if it does happen) will make them a little vary about pandering to the vote bank. Some form of nationalism and pride about Hinduism is fine and necessary, but it should not come at the cost of peddling unhistorical facts and increasing irrational hatred against the minorities expecially in the 21st century. We should have Israel's strength but not the fanaticism displayed by a significant chunk of the Jews.
You forgot to mention - to remove the anti-minority bias, India should implement sharia laws + allow triple talak + reserve a constitutional position like president or similar to muslims. Allow mr.Naik to come over and speak whatever he wants etc [had Mr.Naik been non-muslum and he speaks similar in Muslim countries, he would have been finished off long back etc].

Probably, change the dress code to something like arab dress code etc.

Then, LCA may win a contract.

PS: Appeasement will never solve anything.
PS: It is better for LCA to not win this contract.
 
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jetray

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Not going for Tejas would make sense for Malaysia - (i) it will not anger Xi, (ii) it won't make the Malaysian Air force have a true 4+ gen fighter and so no neighbour will be rattled, (iii) keeps the Malaysians close to the Western block, (iv) does not make the Malaysians vulnerable to the anti-Muslim bias of the ruling BJP.

A failure will nudge HAL and other DPSUs improve their services especially since the ruling BJP may not have patience with them and is actively involving the private sector.

I think that since the BJP govt wants to increase defence exports and the prestige of our defence manufacturing, this setback (if it does happen) will make them a little vary about pandering to the vote bank. Some form of nationalism and pride about Hinduism is fine and necessary, but it should not come at the cost of peddling unhistorical facts and increasing irrational hatred against the minorities expecially in the 21st century. We should have Israel's strength but not the fanaticism displayed by a significant chunk of the Jews.
we seriously need to diversify and increase private sector participation in major sectors like defence & space. Public sector companies are not just slow in R&D but also have become serious bottleneck in quantitative output. Companies like HAL or BEL have order books padded with thousand of crores and they still take their own sweet time to produce the products.
 
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thinkingcap81

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You forgot to mention - to remove the anti-minority bias, India should implement sharia laws + allow triple talak + reserve a constitutional position like president or similar to muslims. Allow mr.Naik to come over and speak whatever he wants etc [had Mr.Naik been non-muslum and he speaks similar in Muslim countries, he would have been finished off long back etc].

Probably, change the dress code to something like arab dress code etc.

Then, LCA may win a contract.

PS: Appeasement will never solve anything.
PS: It is better for LCA to not win this contract.
Hello @jk007 ! Good morning! Had a nice nationalistic sleep? When i wrote the post above i knew that you definitely would respond in a certain way only, and you did respond in exactly the way i thought. I've read your similar posts on PDF also (what a worthless forum PDF has become; i'm a member there too).

Look man, every powerful leader will impose a good amount of nonsense on the system he controls. Nehru and his band of elites imposed socialism which gave us our infamous inefficiency. The Soviets committed hara-kiri. So many strongman leaders are ridiculed the world over. Turkey's Erdogan is a good example of a seemingly decent leader, but is now allowing his religious rubbish to take his country down. Pakistan is not even a worthwhile place to talk about now.

But the funny thing is that a good number of these leaders seek praise from members of West and their liberal system which these leaders do not want to sustain in their own country. The concept of 'democracy' which is now the most useful form of governing has been popularised by the West; even the powerful Chinese cannot afford to dismiss it. The supreme core leader Xi is making a propaganda for his countrymen that the Chinese system is the best democracy! The total lack of a decent humanities oriented curriculum in China has created a set of diplomats who resort to economic power backed wolf-warrior diplomacy which is only angering the world.

When SP's Akhilesh Yadav said that he won't take the covid vaccine which he termed as Modi vaccine, he was pandering to his Muslim vote bank. There's no shortage of such people in India. Modi also does the same. Modi also is doing several good things. But we must not brush aside the detrimental aspects of his leadership also. We want to make our country such that we have political, economic and military power and talk as an equal to the West; we don't want to be China, Russia, Turkey. We should not pander to any religious vote banks in the manner it has been going on for several decades now. There are better ways of doing it. We have voted leaders to guide us and not merely massage our biases, just like we require parents and teachers to tell us right and wrong.

This is the first and only post that i am going to address to you on this broad topic. I'm not going to respond to your reply and insults which will be full of nationalism fueled self-righteousness. Have a nice day. Goodbye!
 
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thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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No trainer is in service as of today as far as I know. Those twin seaters flying today are not of production standards.

18 (8 mk1 and 10 Mk1A ) twin seaters will be of same configuration and their assembly will start soon. Non are in service as of yet.
I don't believe that the lack of a FOC Mk1 trainer is a serious deterrent. But of course you (being closer to the armed forces than a civilian like me) would know whether such a route is preferred by a customer. As @randomradio says, it is more political than anything else. Now i think that whether we win it or lose it, it is good for us. If we win it then we have to respond to the customer demands and if we lost it then also things are likely to change.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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Hello @jk007 ! Good morning! Had a nice nationalistic sleep? When i wrote the post above i knew that you definitely would respond in a certain way only, and you did respond in exactly the way i thought. I've read your similar posts on PDF also (what a worthless forum PDF has become; i'm a member there too).

Look man, every powerful leader will impose a good amount of nonsense on the system he controls. Nehru and his band of elites imposed socialism which gave us our infamous inefficiency. The Soviets committed hara-kiri. So many strongman leaders are ridiculed the world over. Turkey's Erdogan is a good example of a seemingly decent leader, but is now allowing his religious rubbish to take his country down. Pakistan is not even a worthwhile place to talk about now.

But the funny thing is that a good number of these leaders seek praise from members of West and their liberal system which these leaders do not want to sustain in their own country. The concept of 'democracy' which is now the most useful form of governing has been popularised by the West; even the powerful Chinese cannot afford to dismiss it. The supreme core leader Xi is making a propaganda for his countrymen that the Chinese system is the best democracy! The total lack of a decent humanities oriented curriculum in China has created a set of diplomats who resort to economic power backed wolf-warrior diplomacy which is only angering the world.

When SP's Akhilesh Yadav said that he won't take the covid vaccine which he termed as Modi vaccine, he was pandering to his Muslim vote bank. There's no shortage of such people in India. Modi also does the same. Modi also is doing several good things. But we must not brush aside the detrimental aspects of his leadership also. We want to make our country such that we have political, economic and military power and talk as an equal to the West; we don't want to be China, Russia, Turkey. We should not pander to any religious vote banks in the manner it has been going on for several decades now. There are better ways of doing it. We have voted leaders to guide us and not merely massage our biases, just like we require parents and teachers to tell us right and wrong.

This is the first and only post that i am going to address to you on this broad topic. I'm not going to respond to your reply and insults which will be full of nationalism fueled self-righteousness. Have a nice day. Goodbye!
IMO You just can’t remove the Hindu bias in a majority Hindu community.
It’s common sense. So chasing mirage for some weapon sales to a Muslim country that follows Ummat Principles and goes many extra miles for avoiding anything Yahoodi, it will lead us to nowhere.

That said I’m neither a devout Hindu nor is a fan of 56 inch govt, to make things clear here.
 
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