Malaysian tender for Light Combat Aircraft

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Better we should not win this tender. Why would we import billion dollar worth palm oil for selling an engineering product,why would we disturb local oil producing farmers? By doing so Malaysia is getting an aircraft & buisness for their farmers & palm oil industries. The biggest loser here is the one who sell aircraft to them.

That's how military deals with countries that don't take security as seriously as others are. Their main goal is to get minimum capabilties necessary along with political-economic benefits. The latter is of greater importance to them.
 

Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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That's how military deals with countries that don't take security as seriously as others are. Their main goal is to get minimum capabilties necessary along with political-economic benefits. The latter is of greater importance to them.
If overall gain is negative for the one who sell military gears , then there is no point in pursuing that buisness.
1) Malaysia is Turkish pakistani lap dog, by selling them our wannabe mainstay interceptor we are destroying our own security integrity.
2) By barter trading palm oil, we are destroying or atleast put a huge dent on domestic edible oil industry.

I do remember Malaysia did same thing with India long back for a railway project. Railway got a contract,but it was a bad deal for country. And barter system is a failed system, that's why people had invented money.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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If overall gain is negative for the one who sell military gears , then there is no point in pursuing that buisness.
1) Malaysia is Turkish pakistani lap dog, by selling them our wannabe mainstay interceptor we are destroying our own security integrity.
2) By barter trading palm oil, we are destroying or atleast put a huge dent on domestic edible oil industry.

I do remember Malaysia did same thing with India long back for a railway project. Railway got a contract,but it was a bad deal for country. And barter system is a failed system, that's why people had invented money.

1. Won't affect us. HAL says the configuration will be different.
2. We are dependent on palm oil imports. HAL has already roped in a palm oil company that will buy it. HAL gets cash from the company. Barter deals like this actually benefits India because the palm oil will come in at lower than market price. We need to encourage such deals in some cases since it reduces competition while India can absorb produce owing to the large market. Plus it's better than financing a loan. It's a win-win for both sides.

There is lot of potential for political benefits too. For example, a vote against Pak in FATF.
 

suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
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2) By barter trading palm oil, we are destroying or atleast put a huge dent on domestic edible oil industry.

Could you please provide statistics on how it puts a dent on the domestic edible oil industry. Also, could you provide insights on the repercussion of palm cultivation on the ecology of the land.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,230
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Mumbai
Could you please provide statistics on how it puts a dent on the domestic edible oil industry. Also, could you provide insights on the repercussion of palm cultivation on the ecology of the land.

You cruel cruel man!!

Kerala is THE WORLD aa far as anything related to coconuts go. Kerala exports coconuts & it's oil all over the world. Malaysia mostly makes up the remainder. This move by HAL is anti national. It definitely impacts Sakhavus in Kerala.
 

Jersey27

Member
Nov 26, 2021
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9
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You cruel cruel man!!

Kerala is THE WORLD aa far as anything related to coconuts go. Kerala exports coconuts & it's oil all over the world. Malaysia mostly makes up the remainder. This move by HAL is anti national. It definitely impacts Sakhavus in Kerala.
Palm oil and coconut oil are not the same thing. India is probably not even on the top 10 palm oil producing countries.
 

thinkingcap81

Active member
Jun 2, 2019
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India
2025.



Logically Hurjet doesn't stand a chance because it does not even exist. So the Turks are instead offering joint development and production. Whereas we are offering an MRO facility. Regardless our offer is much better and more cheaper in the long run along with better business opportunities, without even including the palm oil advantage.

Politically, Turkey is closer to Malaysia for obvious reasons, but at the same time the Turks are susceptible to pressure from China, whereas India is not. Malaysia clearly wants an anti-China jet.

Trying to use Turkey to get a better deal from India won't work because the Hurjet doesn't exist. Anyway, with the FA-50 competing, the Tejas already has competition. Plus HAL says they are offering at the same cost as the IAF, excluding any R&D needed to replace Israeli stuff, so it's not gonna get any lower than that.
Joint development and production of the Hurjet is fraught with risks due to the Chinese pressure you mentioned. They can stop the co-development of the Hurjet upon Chinese insistence. The Turkish economy is in a pickle now. I was amazed to hear that Pakistan did not join Biden's democracy summit due to Chinese economic and diplomatic pressure. Pakistan without China is a very fragile state.

But to win this deal we need to give very strong guarantees and commitments from our end.

The T129 is different. The US has sanctioned Pakistan. If Malaysia goes for the Hurjet, they won't face much issues from the American side.

Good point. I didn't realise that.
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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Better we should not win this tender. Why would we import billion dollar worth palm oil for selling an engineering product,why would we disturb local oil producing farmers? By doing so Malaysia is getting an aircraft & buisness for their farmers & palm oil industries. The biggest loser here is the one who sell aircraft to them.
Not everything is zero-some in international relations especially when it comes to defense exchanges. Sometimes secondary benifits outweigh the primary benifits. These kind of military economic deals are sometimes offered to get a foothold in niche market. What matters the most in the end is the end goal of country & government, nothing more nothing less.

Most numerous example is none other than US itself whose military deals have involved barter trade to settle economic equilibrium.
 

RISING SUN

Senior member
Dec 3, 2017
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Besides India will import palm oil from Indonesia, if not Malaysia due to domestic consumption. And HAL will be getting the economic value from the deal. Win win situation for both, isn't it?
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Joint development and production of the Hurjet is fraught with risks due to the Chinese pressure you mentioned. They can stop the co-development of the Hurjet upon Chinese insistence. The Turkish economy is in a pickle now. I was amazed to hear that Pakistan did not join Biden's democracy summit due to Chinese economic and diplomatic pressure. Pakistan without China is a very fragile state.

Since China wasn't invited even after proclaiming that they are a democracy, how can a Pakistan join in?

But to win this deal we need to give very strong guarantees and commitments from our end.

Our offer is pretty normal as far as fighter jet deals go. It's the Malaysians who need to commit to all their required 3 squadrons.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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Besides India will import palm oil from Indonesia, if not Malaysia due to domestic consumption. And HAL will be getting the economic value from the deal. Win win situation for both, isn't it?
Between the two, I will take Malaysia any day over Indos, as the latter is highly unreliable trade partner and has history of siding with our enemies during war and even claiming our terrorists ridiculously.
Also Malaysia has a lot of Malay people who are much more sympathetic to us and Malaysia being a much more developed country, give us a huge advantage in ASEAN region.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Between the two, I will take Malaysia any day over Indos, as the latter is highly unreliable trade partner and has history of siding with our enemies during war and even claiming our terrorists ridiculously.
Also Malaysia has a lot of Malay people who are much more sympathetic to us and Malaysia being a much more developed country, give us a huge advantage in ASEAN region.

We need to absorb both into our sphere of influence.
 
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SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
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We need to absorb both into our sphere of influence.

For that we have to convert the challenges in to opportunities.
GoI for the first time is doing exactly the same
.
Conflict with Chinese in LAC forces them to do all kind of modernisation from infrastructure,economy , military etc
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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For that we have to convert the challenges in to opportunities.
GoI for the first time is doing exactly the same
.
Conflict with Chinese in LAC forces them to do all kind of modernisation from infrastructure,economy , military etc

With the exception of building border infrastructure faster and getting some emergency supplies, I don't think it's changed our actual plans a lot. It's just that what used to be discussed behind closed doors is now happening openly, since anything we do is a challenge to China (and the US). Post Galwan, we have become more assertive "publicly". While India's public perception has increased globally in the eyes of the mango man, with the exception of managing public opinion in their respective countries, nothing much has changed for foreign govts with respect to India.
 

SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
166
120
Kerala
With the exception of building border infrastructure faster and getting some emergency supplies, I don't think it's changed our actual plans a lot. It's just that what used to be discussed behind closed doors is now happening openly, since anything we do is a challenge to China (and the US). Post Galwan, we have become more assertive "publicly". While India's public perception has increased globally in the eyes of the mango man, with the exception of managing public opinion in their respective countries, nothing much has changed for foreign govts with respect to India.
May be.
Because big ticket indigenous items got full support from Govt and to some extent military also.
For now US is avoiding India from any kind of friction.
Because Chinese together Russians are kicking from all sides.
This is also an opportunity to us also.
This US Chinese duel will continue in coming decades.GoI is planning for that opportunity also.
S400 deal didnt go well with Americans.

So in a way a USSR type fate shouldnt occur to Chinese.If that happens West will turn against us.
Its obvious because after all this backstabbing Americans still have relation with Paxtan