Malaysian tender for Light Combat Aircraft

randomradio

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The only true fighter jets are the LCA and Mig-35. The others are all trainers with very limited capabilities and the FA-50 is also just a glorified trainer. So the contest depends on requirements, and whether they are going to shortlist based on technical capabilities before considering costs. If they are just looking at the cheapest of them all, then the LCA has no chance.

All the jets should be able to do something as simple as carry small AShMs and PGMs, but that's not going to challenge the PLAN.

Malaysia was supposed to be a proving ground for the fight between JF-17 and LCA. It's no surprise that the JF-17 was withdrawn.
 

Ashwin

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Supersonic Flight Capability, Inflight Refueling System , BVR capability and 50% payment in Palm oil.
These are important factors which will rule out a lot of players.
LCA SPORT if it's fructifies will have a good chance.
HAL should put money in that SPORT LIFT version.
 

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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HAL should put money in that SPORT LIFT version.
The trainer versions certification for IAF is still pending, so no need to get any hopes.

Further everything Israeli will need to be substituted. The pulse Doppler radar is a modification of Israeli one, so that might not be a problem. But SPJs , A2A missiles and guided munitions. Work is required on all things.
 
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randomradio

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So the demand is for 8 LIFT and 10 fighters.

I feel the contest is between LCA, F/A-50 and the Chinese L-15. Mig-35 is over-specced. M-346 is not suitable for supersonic combat, it's only meant for training. Hurjet doesn't exist yet.

Amongst the three, the LCA and F/A-50 carry engines the Malaysians are familiar with and is common with their Hornets. The L-15 carries 2 Ukrainian engines. The twin-engine design + ex-Soviet legacy will make the LCC suffer. All three jets are supersonic, and the LCA should demonstrate the best fighter-like performance. The LCA has higher G performance and climb rates compared to the other two.

When it comes to A2G, all three jets should be similar in capability when it comes to range and payload.

When it comes to A2A, the F/A-50 with its new Block 20 and the L-15's combat version are still WIP. And the F/A-50 needs a non-Israeli solution for the radar.

The LCA's airframe and engine are navalised, hence suitable for Malaysia's marine, tropical environment. While F/A-50's engine is suitable, the same cannot be said for the airframe. It's the other way round for the L-15.

SoKo holds the most advantage in terms of maturity, with many international orders under the F/A-50's kitty. Otoh, India's military relationship with Malaysia is deeper. China has a deep civilian relationship, but their military relationship is extremely strained. The entire point of starting this contest is to counter China.

All three jets should be able to meet the localisation demand of 30%.

Only India and China should be able to meet the 50% palm oil demand. SoKo's palm oil market is very small. Probably the most important parameter in the contest.

Right now, LCA is the only jet that can fulfill the role of both LIFT and fighter. Meaning, with the SPORT, it is the only jet in the market that comes in both trainer and fighter configurations. Even in the USN tender, it's the only one ready to be offered as a LIFT today. F/A-50 and L-15 are yet to catch up, and neither of them come in a single-seat configuration.
 

Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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The only true fighter jets are the LCA and Mig-35. The others are all trainers with very limited capabilities and the FA-50 is also just a glorified trainer. So the contest depends on requirements, and whether they are going to shortlist based on technical capabilities before considering costs. If they are just looking at the cheapest of them all, then the LCA has no chance.

All the jets should be able to do something as simple as carry small AShMs and PGMs, but that's not going to challenge the PLAN.

Malaysia was supposed to be a proving ground for the fight between JF-17 and LCA. It's no surprise that the JF-17 was withdrawn.
Actually no matter how optimistic we get this deal will go to the FA-50. It gives similar performance to the tejas even though overall it's quite less capable but it matches up thanks to its American munitions Integration. While tejas doesn't use the amraam so integration costs will be another headache. On top of that Israeli tech will also reduce its export chance considering how radicalised the Malaysians are. The FA-50 uses the same engine as on the Malaysian hornets. With basically the same weapons suite. It's next to impossible tejas winning this and it's good I don't want our stuff falling in enemy hands.
 

randomradio

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Actually no matter how optimistic we get this deal will go to the FA-50. It gives similar performance to the tejas even though overall it's quite less capable but it matches up thanks to its American munitions Integration. While tejas doesn't use the amraam so integration costs will be another headache. On top of that Israeli tech will also reduce its export chance considering how radicalised the Malaysians are. The FA-50 uses the same engine as on the Malaysian hornets. With basically the same weapons suite. It's next to impossible tejas winning this and it's good I don't want our stuff falling in enemy hands.

The technical specs of the LCA are much higher. Weapons commonality is irrelevant, the Malaysians will want next gen weapons. Why will the Malaysians want the AMRAAM when the Astra Mk2 will be a better option? The LCA's engine is a much more advanced version of the same engine. There is a roadmap in India to replace Israeli tech, the Koreans don't have one. The FA-50 uses an Israeli radar. The Malaysian configuration will be different from the IAF's LCA, so any loss through espionage doesn't affect the IAF.

Plus the industrial and payment options seem more suitable for India since we are willing to offer an MRO facility as well as purchase palm oil. I mean, pretty much all advantages seem to lie on India's side. Only politics can kill the deal, like American or Chinese pressure to not buy Indian weapons.

Anyway, ASEAN countries using Indian tech enhances our own security.
 

HariPrasad

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The technical specs of the LCA are much higher. Weapons commonality is irrelevant, the Malaysians will want next gen weapons. Why will the Malaysians want the AMRAAM when the Astra Mk2 will be a better option? The LCA's engine is a much more advanced version of the same engine. There is a roadmap in India to replace Israeli tech, the Koreans don't have one. The FA-50 uses an Israeli radar. The Malaysian configuration will be different from the IAF's LCA, so any loss through espionage doesn't affect the IAF.

Plus the industrial and payment options seem more suitable for India since we are willing to offer an MRO facility as well as purchase palm oil. I mean, pretty much all advantages seem to lie on India's side. Only politics can kill the deal, like American or Chinese pressure to not buy Indian weapons.

Anyway, ASEAN countries using Indian tech enhances our own security.

Very correct. We have integrated Python 5 and I derby as well. EW warfar suite work with Isreal is already on. Fabrication of Uttam mk2 is already on. Tejas is undoubtedly the best package and value for money.
 

HariPrasad

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Mig 35 and saab grippen are excellent aircrafts in terms of capacities. However, Mig 35 are not ligh combat aircrafts, they are expensive to operate. Saab Grippen C is top class aircraft but too costly. Tejas is the best contender. It can lift 4 tons, Go to 56000 ft, It will have top class AESA and weapon package, high maintainability etc, Frrry range beyond 2000 km. Mk1A will come with lot more goodies.

Tejas comes with advance technologies such as on board oxygen generator, advance features like auto pilot and auto recovery of aircraft from low speed. It has a very low RCS which is all set to reduce in Mk1A. Only Gripen C comes close in capabilities to Tejas.
 

Tatvamasi

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Mig 35 and saab grippen are excellent aircrafts in terms of capacities. However, Mig 35 are not ligh combat aircrafts, they are expensive to operate. Saab Grippen C is top class aircraft but too costly. Tejas is the best contender. It can lift 4 tons, Go to 56000 ft, It will have top class AESA and weapon package, high maintainability etc, Frrry range beyond 2000 km. Mk1A will come with lot more goodies.

Tejas comes with advance technologies such as on board oxygen generator, advance features like auto pilot and auto recovery of aircraft from low speed. It has a very low RCS which is all set to reduce in Mk1A. Only Gripen C comes close in capabilities to Tejas.
No chance of Mig because they already operate Mig-29. Gripen is not even a contender.
 
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Amarante

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The Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia (TUDM, Royal Malaysian Air Force) has confirmed its interest in acquiring an unknown number of used F/A-18C and F/A-18D Hornet fighter aircraft from Kuwait.
« Might »
 

randomradio

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The Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia (TUDM, Royal Malaysian Air Force) has confirmed its interest in acquiring an unknown number of used F/A-18C and F/A-18D Hornet fighter aircraft from Kuwait.
« Might »

They postponed their twin engine tender for the LCA 'cause of cost. This will make up for the delay.
 
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Ashwin

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randomradio

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Hurjet seems to have become the biggest threat to the LCA in Malaysia, even though the Hurjet's timeline is more along the lines of LCA Mk2, plus it's not a fighter. Turkey is politically closer to Malaysia and interested in their palm oil. So the competition may boil down to common sense versus politics.
 
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thinkingcap81

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Hurjet seems to have become the biggest threat to the LCA in Malaysia, even though the Hurjet's timeline is more along the lines of LCA Mk2, plus it's not a fighter. Turkey is politically closer to Malaysia and interested in their palm oil. So the competition may boil down to common sense versus politics.
When do the Malaysians want the deliveries to start?

Although Modi stopped buying palm oil from Malaysia in response to Mahathir's Kashmir comments, Turkey is in a difficult economic and international situation now. Their Hurjet also requires the GE404 which can be denied to the Turks at any point of time. Pak is having to wait for its T129 helis.

Isn't our requirement for palm oil more than Turkey?

This might possibly be a trick the Malaysians are playing to get a better deal for the LCA.
 

randomradio

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When do the Malaysians want the deliveries to start?

2025.

Although Modi stopped buying palm oil from Malaysia in response to Mahathir's Kashmir comments, Turkey is in a difficult economic and international situation now. Their Hurjet also requires the GE404 which can be denied to the Turks at any point of time. Pak is having to wait for its T129 helis.


Isn't our requirement for palm oil more than Turkey?

This might possibly be a trick the Malaysians are playing to get a better deal for the LCA.

Logically Hurjet doesn't stand a chance because it does not even exist. So the Turks are instead offering joint development and production. Whereas we are offering an MRO facility. Regardless our offer is much better and more cheaper in the long run along with better business opportunities, without even including the palm oil advantage.

Politically, Turkey is closer to Malaysia for obvious reasons, but at the same time the Turks are susceptible to pressure from China, whereas India is not. Malaysia clearly wants an anti-China jet.

Trying to use Turkey to get a better deal from India won't work because the Hurjet doesn't exist. Anyway, with the FA-50 competing, the Tejas already has competition. Plus HAL says they are offering at the same cost as the IAF, excluding any R&D needed to replace Israeli stuff, so it's not gonna get any lower than that.

The T129 is different. The US has sanctioned Pakistan. If Malaysia goes for the Hurjet, they won't face much issues from the American side.
 
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Hydra

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Hurjet seems to have become the biggest threat to the LCA in Malaysia, even though the Hurjet's timeline is more along the lines of LCA Mk2, plus it's not a fighter. Turkey is politically closer to Malaysia and interested in their palm oil. So the competition may boil down to common sense versus politics.
Better we should not win this tender. Why would we import billion dollar worth palm oil for selling an engineering product,why would we disturb local oil producing farmers? By doing so Malaysia is getting an aircraft & buisness for their farmers & palm oil industries. The biggest loser here is the one who sell aircraft to them.