Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Innominate

Well-Known member
Jun 23, 2021
1,248
810
California
Seems block 4 has been finally fixed.

Lockheed, Pentagon strike deal for next three lots of F-35s​

FARNBOROUGH, England — Lockheed Martin and the F-35 Joint Program Office have reached a deal to deliver approximately 375 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters over the next three lots.

“We are pleased to announce that the Department and Lockheed Martin reached a handshake agreement for the next F-35 lot buy on a basis of 375 aircraft,” William LaPlante, the Pentagon’s chief weapons buyer, said in a statement.

The final price and quantities are not entirely certain and aren’t expected to be final for weeks or months. LaPlante said the deal may be changed by Congress in the FY23 budget and by international partners’ orders.

In an email sent Monday evening, after the first day of the show, Lockheed said more information on the pricing of the Lot 15 through 17 fighters will be announced when a final contract is signed. Information about how many of each variant the deal includes, and a breakdown by countries that will buy more of the planes, also will be released later, Lockheed said.

In an email to Defense News, company spokeswoman Laura Siebert said the contract likely will be awarded in late summer or fall.

“Through a collaborative effort with the F-35 enterprise, including the Joint Program Office, we have successfully reached an agreement on Lots 15 through 17,” the statement from Lockheed said. “In the midst of continued COVID-19 impacts and decreased F-35 quantities, the F-35 enterprise was able to achieve a cost per jet lower than record-breaking inflation trends.”

Reuters reported that the deal would be worth about $30 billion.

Lockheed said the deal also includes modernized hardware that will be needed to run the F-35′s Block 4 capabilities, which include the ability to carry more weapons, improved target recognition, and advanced electronic-warfare capabilities.

In a roundtable with reporters July 16 at the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in England, Air Force acquisition chief Andrew Hunter said the deal was close to being done, but that multiple factors such as the COVID-19 crisis and the transition to Block 4 had complicated negotiations.

“We really, really need those Block 4 capabilities,” Hunter said Saturday. “And so we want to make sure that the contract accomplishes that, and it will. ... So I think it’s understandable that has taken a little bit of time to come together.”

The last deal for three lots of F-35s was finalized in 2019, which brought the cost of each F-35A under $80 million, hitting $77.9 million by Lot 14.

F-35Bs and Cs also saw their unit costs drop by Lot 14, to $101.3 million for the B variant and $94.4 million for the C.


Once J-20s start probing Indian airspace making themselves known only when they are egressing I think India will start banging on LM door for some F-35's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BMD

BMD

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
11,927
2,482

1658306262548.png
 

Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
1,616
1,025
Delhi
Seems block 4 has been finally fixed.

Lockheed, Pentagon strike deal for next three lots of F-35s​

FARNBOROUGH, England — Lockheed Martin and the F-35 Joint Program Office have reached a deal to deliver approximately 375 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters over the next three lots.

“We are pleased to announce that the Department and Lockheed Martin reached a handshake agreement for the next F-35 lot buy on a basis of 375 aircraft,” William LaPlante, the Pentagon’s chief weapons buyer, said in a statement.

The final price and quantities are not entirely certain and aren’t expected to be final for weeks or months. LaPlante said the deal may be changed by Congress in the FY23 budget and by international partners’ orders.

In an email sent Monday evening, after the first day of the show, Lockheed said more information on the pricing of the Lot 15 through 17 fighters will be announced when a final contract is signed. Information about how many of each variant the deal includes, and a breakdown by countries that will buy more of the planes, also will be released later, Lockheed said.

In an email to Defense News, company spokeswoman Laura Siebert said the contract likely will be awarded in late summer or fall.

“Through a collaborative effort with the F-35 enterprise, including the Joint Program Office, we have successfully reached an agreement on Lots 15 through 17,” the statement from Lockheed said. “In the midst of continued COVID-19 impacts and decreased F-35 quantities, the F-35 enterprise was able to achieve a cost per jet lower than record-breaking inflation trends.”

Reuters reported that the deal would be worth about $30 billion.

Lockheed said the deal also includes modernized hardware that will be needed to run the F-35′s Block 4 capabilities, which include the ability to carry more weapons, improved target recognition, and advanced electronic-warfare capabilities.

In a roundtable with reporters July 16 at the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in England, Air Force acquisition chief Andrew Hunter said the deal was close to being done, but that multiple factors such as the COVID-19 crisis and the transition to Block 4 had complicated negotiations.

“We really, really need those Block 4 capabilities,” Hunter said Saturday. “And so we want to make sure that the contract accomplishes that, and it will. ... So I think it’s understandable that has taken a little bit of time to come together.”

The last deal for three lots of F-35s was finalized in 2019, which brought the cost of each F-35A under $80 million, hitting $77.9 million by Lot 14.

F-35Bs and Cs also saw their unit costs drop by Lot 14, to $101.3 million for the B variant and $94.4 million for the C.


Once J-20s start probing Indian airspace making themselves known only when they are egressing I think India will start banging on LM door for some F-35's.
IAF will be only interested in the f-35 after it attains FOC status so probably after blk 4.
Same for the su-57M when it gets the izdeliye 30.
The IN could buy the f-35B's. Let's see.
 

Innominate

Well-Known member
Jun 23, 2021
1,248
810
California

Czech Republic selects F-35 as next fighter jet​

WARSAW, Poland — The Czech government has decided to launch negotiations with the United States to buy 24 F-35 Lightning II fighter jets for the country’s Air Force.

The aircraft are to replace the 14 Saab JAS 39 Gripens currently operated by the Czech military, making the country the second Eastern European ally after Poland to order Lockheed Martin’s fighters.

Oh boy. LM is going to need to open up another production line all these nations wanting the F-35 is getting ridiculous.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,956
India
Seems block 4 has been finally fixed.

Not Block 4, but TR3. TR3 is the B4 friendly hardware.

The first time a block purchase was made was bigger than this order, so it's not supposed to be impressive.

This is supposed to be the main clincher--
In the meantime, the service plans to slash F-35A procurement, which officials believe will allow it to avoid expensive costs to retrofit operational jets in the near future. The Air Force requested funds to buy 33 F-35As in FY23 and 29 jets in FY24, before ramping up to 43 in FY25. (In previous years, the Air Force had regularly requested 48 F-35As per year.)

With the ramp up expected only in 2025, that's not even the entry level of what the USAF considers it to be a combat ready aircraft. FRP is expected to take is to 72 jets. So that's the main clincher. Basically, the USAF needs to buy 72 jets a year, and that's the year the F-35 will be ready to fight.

And that could happen in--
This year’s report extends Block 4 development and delivery “into fiscal year 2029, in part, due to the addition of new capabilities,” the GAO said in its annual report on the F-35.

And--
“The Block 4 capabilities are what we really need for the pacing challenge — for China and their advanced systems. So we need to get that done,” Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said last week. “We’ve been behind schedule for a couple of years with that.”

Need Block 4 to challenge China. Without it, and without a new engine, even the Pentagon has to keep knocking on LM's doors until it happens.

But we believe the Rafale is more than enough. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: BMD

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,956
India

Czech Republic selects F-35 as next fighter jet​

WARSAW, Poland — The Czech government has decided to launch negotiations with the United States to buy 24 F-35 Lightning II fighter jets for the country’s Air Force.

The aircraft are to replace the 14 Saab JAS 39 Gripens currently operated by the Czech military, making the country the second Eastern European ally after Poland to order Lockheed Martin’s fighters.

Oh boy. LM is going to need to open up another production line all these nations wanting the F-35 is getting ridiculous.

They are buying it at almost the right time, unlike the other partners.

But the best time to buy this jet would be around 2027-28 or even 2030 for post 2030 deliveries, ie, around the time B5/10 capabilities begin deliveries equipped with next gen systems, like GaN, DIRCM, DEW, better MMI etc. Basically stuff the Rafale F4 and Su-57M will get around 2025.
 

Herciv

Well-Known member
Nov 30, 2017
275
258
FRANCE
Seems block 4 has been finally fixed.
No it hasn't.
The next lots will only be block4 ready without a new engines.

To be fully block4 the F-35 need a new engines and to have the 70 new modules sheduled to be delivers until 2029.

Then all the deliveries to come will habe to be refitted with more or less 20 millions dollars.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Picdelamirand-oil

Optimist

Active member
Oct 31, 2021
463
226
Australia
The F135 update costs $20 million for existing aircraft? Over and above the current cost of a major overhaul. Which is when it would be done. You are making this up. Liar is another word people would use.
For new aircraft the cost would be minimal
 
Last edited:

Herciv

Well-Known member
Nov 30, 2017
275
258
FRANCE
Hello Opti.
The F135 update costs $20 million for existing aircraft? Over and above the current cost of a major overhaul. Which is when it would be done. You are making this up. Liar is another word people would use.
For new aircraft the cost would be minima
Nope Because
- making a F-35 ready to a full f-35 is not only to change the engine but also to put non delivrable part of TR3.
- Of course the EEP or AETP price is not the same to put in the F-35B or even the C.
For example even if it itsen't for the block4 :
"Lockheed explains that the contract, that issued by Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) on behalf of all F-35 users, will see the company to perform the engineering necessary to modify the aircraft to perform “full up” SEAD and DEAD. The current F-35A’s SEAD/DEAD suite is able to perform the mission in a “limited” fashion. A structural modification is needed because the aircraft will be fitted with new munitions and/or sensors to carry out the role (which usually involves detecting, fixing, and attacking ground-based air defense threats, that can be mobile or stationary)."

“Additional schedule slips to either TR3 or Block 4 will increase risk to combat mission accomplishment and to our airmen.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Picdelamirand-oil

Herciv

Well-Known member
Nov 30, 2017
275
258
FRANCE
Further, the F-35 program is in the early stages of planning to modernize the F-35 engine. According to F-35 Joint Program Office officials, the F35 program will need to modernize the current engine to provide the additional power and thermal management capabilities that are necessary to support F-35 aircraft modernization.18 According to Joint Program Office officials, DOD is considering two options:
(1) upgrading the current engine via enhanced engine package options, produced by Pratt & Whitney, or
(2) developing a new engine through an Adaptive Engine Transition Program, which would be competed among interested contractors. •
Enhanced engine package:
The enhanced engine package is a Pratt & Whitney program that would build on the technology of the existing engine and be applicable to all aircraft variants. The enhanced engine package would result in an increase in capability, such as improved range and thrust. However, Pratt & Whitney representatives stated that if the enhanced engine is required to work with all variants of the F-35, some degradation in performance would be experienced to accommodate the lift fan that is part of the engine for the F-35B. Further, these officials noted that Pratt & Whitney has also developed an option that would increase performance for the F35A and F-35C engines. These options would be integrated into the fleet over time, resulting in minimal effects on sustainment, according to F-35 Joint Program Office officials.

• Adaptive Engine Transition Program (AETP):
The Air Force is sponsoring this approach, which would result in an entirely new engine for the U.S. fleet of F-35As and F-35Cs. Air Force officials told us that the F-35 is being flown harder than originally anticipated, and 18The modernization effort—known as Block 4—upgrades the hardware and software systems of the F-35. See GAO, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter: DOD Needs to Update Modernization Schedule and Improve Data on Software Development,
F-35 Aircraft an upgraded engine is imperative for meeting increasing demands. AETP aims to produce adaptive engines that provide increased thrust during combat conditions and increased fuel efficiency during cruise conditions. Fielding such engines would enable air power with increased range and additional cooling air for thermal management. However, according to F-35 Joint Program Office officials, this option would pose three challenges that will affect engine life-cycle costs. First, the F-35C aircraft would likely need some sort of modification so that the new engine could be placed in the aircraft. Second, a new engine would present sustainment challenges as the program would have two different engines to sustain—one for F-35As and F-35Cs, and another for F-35Bs—likely requiring changes to the existing infrastructure that supports engine sustainment. Third, this approach will not work for the F-35B variant, according to F-35 Joint Program Office officials. Therefore, if an engine modernization is a requirement for all three variants—F-35A, F-35B, and F-35C—and AETP is selected for the F-35A and F-35C, then another engine modernization effort would still be required for the F-35B. According to program officials, this would result in two separate engine development efforts and have an effect on sustainment strategies and sustainment costs due to the fleet of F-35s operating two unique engines.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
3,536
4,148
74
France
F-35: Viola Amherd ne doit pas passer en force

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

F-35: Viola Amherd must not be forced into action


EDITORIAL. The popular initiative "Against the F-35" has finally succeeded and will be submitted to the Federal Chancellery on Tuesday. The debate has also been rekindled by the publication of a book by Socialist National Councillor Pierre-Alain Fridez, who denounces a "state scandal". Federal Councillor must consult the people for her credibility.


Will Federal Councillor Viola Amherd wait for the vote on the F-35 initiative before finalising the purchase of the new fighter planes?

Viola Amherd is staking her credibility and her political career on the purchase of new fighter jets. The Minister of Defence won a first round on 27 September 2020, when 50.1% of voters said yes to the replacement of the ageing F/A-18s. It was a close call, but she had succeeded where Ueli Maurer had failed with his Gripen.

However, the Valaisan was not at the end of her tether. Very much in tune with the top brass, she set her sights on the American F-35 rather than the French Rafale or the European Eurofighter. This choice was officially endorsed by the rest of the Federal Council. In fact, the college was divided, but the majority of ministers preferred to let her deal with this very thorny issue. The F-35 issue illustrates the tensions within the government and the growing lack of collegiality.

Since the decision to favour the American aircraft manufacturer, Viola Amherd has faced a flood of criticism and disturbing revelations. The latest development is the book by National Councillor Pierre-Alain Fridez denouncing a "state scandal". The term is provocative and seems exaggerated. But it reveals disturbing elements about what he calls a "shaped" procedure. Admittedly, these words come from a socialist who is clearly opposed to the F-35. But unlike the vast majority of his "comrades", he is not a dogmatic anti-militarist. The Jura politician contests the choice of the aircraft, but not the principle of air defence. In addition, new worrying information comes from the United States, where F-35s have been grounded due to technical failures.

To cut through the rumours and concerns, it is essential that Viola Amherd responds in detail to all the criticisms. But this will not be enough. She cannot avoid a new popular vote. The initiative "Against the F-35" has been successful, and a forced passage would be perceived as a democratic denial that would undermine the credibility of the Federal Councillor of the Centre. The initiators had difficulty in collecting the necessary 100,000 signatures and the war in Ukraine has reinforced the Swiss people's need for security. Viola Amherd can therefore also win the second round if she manages to reassure and convince.