Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Lolwa

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Rafale is much more nimble and has better STR and ITR and far better nose authority than aerodynamic disaster called F18.
MICA with HOBS and along with better HMD , Rafale has high chances to kill F18 in WVR.

In BVR F18 has AIM 120 D which is quite comparable to Meteor and together with IRST, Powerful jammers, DIRCM and Infrared jammers can shoot down Rafale. Or at least have higher chance of killing it than in WVR fight.
F/A 18 doesn't have an irst and won't carry one in most scenarios. The OSF of Rafale will pretty much see the f/A 18. Now since both have similar RCS it's a matter of who sees first and with the OSF Rafale has the higher chance.
Lol. He doesn't know that all these have clauses how they can be used.
They don't that's why we bought them.
 

halloweene

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Dec 1, 2017
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I'm talking about fighters are in service now the F4 won't enter service until mid 2020s, bruh. As for F-18 I was talking about the latest block 2 blockIII just entered service and is more capable.

Thales makes it clear.

The AESA RBE2 is the very high performance radar designed for the omnirole Rafale fighter. It has been designed in close collaboration with Dassault Aviation and DGA -French defense procurement agency- to meet expectations of Air Forces by combining advanced fire control radar detection and target tracking needs thanks to innovative technologies.

In a radar, an antenna is said to be «active» when it has a single subassembly for amplification of radiated power and pre-amplification of received power. This is achieved by the antenna front end, which comprises an array of several hundreds transmit/receive modules (T/R modules). By controlling each T/R module individually, the active antenna can steer the radar beam at speeds of an electronic chip. This is called «electronic scanning in space» and effectively allows the radar to overcome the mechanical constraints of steering a single antenna. It also allows the radar to track multiple targets simultaneously in all directions. The active antenna thus replaces the conventional antenna and its mechanical steering system, along with the radar transmitter and the first stage of signal reception.

"SEVERAL HUNDREDS" it says.
Shall we count?
View attachment 22249
You calling Thales a liar?
Exactly what i meant : a dummy antenna presented for an airshow and cooling elements counted. Real photos of the antenna are blurred. In 2013, CEAM disclosed the real number : around 1000. Btw, RBE2 has a real time 3D mapping capability for ground following flights. Doese it make RBE2 AESA superior to AN/APG 79? No. Exactly as GMTT/GMTI modes do not make APG superior to RBE2.

Oh and F4 standard Rafale was recently inducted in Air Force, and DGA has proceeded to testing it in May. AND it displays a GMTT/GMTI mode...
 
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AbRaj

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F/A 18 doesn't have an irst and won't carry one in most scenarios. The OSF of Rafale will pretty much see the f/A 18. Now since both have similar RCS it's a matter of who sees first and with the OSF Rafale has the higher chance.
I think they do. And it’s supplied by LM
They also have all kinds of other advanced sensors too supplied by other US oems that can be mounted externally on ad hoc basis. That’s why USN considers it very mission flexible.
 

Lolwa

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I think they do. And it’s supplied by LM
They also have all kinds of other advanced sensors too supplied by other US oems that can be mounted externally on ad hoc basis. That’s why USN considers it very mission flexible.
It's a pod. It's integrated to the airframe some thing like this
images - 2021-12-26T164923.981.jpeg

This is because USAF doesn't use irst in its air doctrine in general and hasn't ever needed it because of their avionics superiority. Also it's still behind the OSF which is a generation ahead of the su-57's 101KS-O. You can see how badly it will do against the Rafale.
 

_Anonymous_

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No, no GaN on F4 radar. They found another way to improve it, shortening travel time of signal in electronic circuits, bit it is highly classified.
Why don't you provide a brief introduction of yourself to @WHOHE

Otherwise he'd be under the impression you're just another defense enthusiast.
 

AbRaj

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I think they do. And it’s supplied by LM
It's a pod. It's integrated to the airframe some thing like thisView attachment 22252
This is because USAF doesn't use irst in its air doctrine in general and hasn't ever needed it because of their avionics superiority. Also it's still behind the OSF which is a generation ahead of the su-57's 101KS-O. You can see how badly it will do against the Rafale.
LM has moved on to Fifth gen EOTS on F35. And can make is backward compatible with Fourth gen fighters.
One benefit of external pods is that the sensor can be rapidly upgraded and integrated in quick time.
 

lcafanboy

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CH-47 Chinook
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Lol. He doesn't know that all these have clauses how they can be used.

Not a single fighter plane or offensive platform... 😊

All the above US weapons systems have alternatives with our armed forces. During war even commercial planes and choppers can be used for transport hence these don't carry any restrictions for use. M777s too can't be blocked from usage and not High end weapons for which we can't service without OEM support.

The only offensive platform in this list is Apache helicopter which are not in huge numbers and won't affect even if grounded during wartime as soon LCH Will come in numbers.

Fighter planes are a complete different case as they need OEM support during war for spares, software updates to integrate new weapon like we did to Mirage 2K during Kargil war to carry PGMs. These can be denied and infact block fighters by blocking access to fighters especially F-35 which can be controlled by alis software, by US govt of that time if that US government doesn't want India to punish Pakistan if it becomes a US Lapdog again or against any US interest. Hence IAF is skeptical of any US fighter planes in its inventory.. 🤗
 
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_Anonymous_

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I think you have mixed up two different articles. First one was from Hushkit and second one was from Wordpress.
Pls stop expecting anything logical from Paddy. He's as disingenuous as anybody else out here but much more clumsy & stupid than others with an agenda. Faux pas to him is the name of another weird French dish.
 
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Lolwa

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That's a comparison done by a random guy called Picard. You can't just look at missile range, it's about radar range vs EW too, and with GaN the larger APG-79(V)4 beats the RBE2 AESA and any future proposed variant of it that could possibly fit in a Rafale. Since the APG-79(V)4 is also configured for EA there is no chance in hell of a Rafale winning BVR, even with AAMs that can reach the moon.


Much like a Spectra with GaN.

Japanese defense budget released - they will buy 12 more F-35s, 8 A versions and 4 B versions - and will also will make a longer range Type 12 Ashm which could be launched from the ground, and potentially the P-1.
How will it jam when the OSF could just see the f 18, even if we consider that apg79 can successfully jam an aesa radar it still doesn't change much when a lock could be gained without the radar.
 

Innominate

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I think you have mixed up two different articles. First one was from Hushkit and second one was from Wordpress.

And BTW Rafale is well equipped to operate in that kind of electronic threat environment. It was designed to do so thanks to its SPECTRA,OSF and MICA-IR combo.
The APG-79 due to its limited size and power, is not a big threat (IMO) but the EA pods like ALQ-218 receiver, ALQ-99 tactical jamming pods, ALQ-227 Communication Countermeasures Set and The AN/ALQ-249, the Next Generation JP that
it carries on its pylons, do pose a great threat to any enemy aircraft
F-18E block II's APG-79(V) not APG-79. APG-79 is almost a 20 years old its been upgraded since then.
 

randomradio

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How will it jam when the OSF could just see the f 18, even if we consider that apg79 can successfully jam an aesa radar it still doesn't change much when a lock could be gained without the radar.

The point of radar-based jammer is to jam large ground radars at longer ranges.
 

BMD

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How will it jam when the OSF could just see the f 18, even if we consider that apg79 can successfully jam an aesa radar it still doesn't change much when a lock could be gained without the radar.
IRST is relatively short range and the range information it provides can be dubious, by then the Rafale will already be shot down. And you think OSF can outrange that huge pod F-18Es can carry?

1640547423177.png
 

BMD

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Dec 4, 2017
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I think you have mixed up two different articles. First one was from Hushkit and second one was from Wordpress.

And BTW Rafale is well equipped to operate in that kind of electronic threat environment. It was designed to do so thanks to its SPECTRA,OSF and MICA-IR combo.
The APG-79 due to its limited size and power, is not a big threat (IMO) but the EA pods like ALQ-218 receiver, ALQ-99 tactical jamming pods, ALQ-227 Communication Countermeasures Set and The AN/ALQ-249, the Next Generation JP that
it carries on its pylons, do pose a great threat to any enemy aircraft
They counted the modules of the APG-79 on f16.net, the count was 1368, for the Rafale it's 840. And the (V)4/5 radar in service now has GaN modules too.

See above, the SH's IRST is likely way better than the Rafale's.
The point of radar-based jammer is to jam large ground radars at longer ranges.
So it stands to reason that a small aircraft radar, especially a very small one, like that on the Rafale, will be jammed to the extent that Meteors become useless against APG-79(V)4/5.
 
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randomradio

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IRST is relatively short range and the range information it provides can be dubious, by then the Rafale will already be shot down. And you think OSF can outrange that huge pod F-18Es can carry?

View attachment 22253

That looks the same size as the OLS or any IRST located on the nose.

So it stands to reason that a small aircraft radar, especially a very small one, like that on the Rafale, will be jammed to the extent that Meteors become useless against APG-79(V)4/5.

That's not how it works. Rather it depends on how the array is choreographed. A fighter array performs just one or two functions at a time, so a regular EW antenna is enough, whereas large radars can perform multiple functions at once, since its greater number of T/R modules can be divided many more times.

I mean, if your ground radar has a 3mx3m antenna, then you can divide it into 9 1mx1m antennas to create 9 main beams. So then your fighter radar has enough T/R resources to create 9 beams for EA whereas your dedicated EW suite can only generate a much smaller number of beams at a time.

Whether the Meteor becomes useless or not depends far more on the quality of the hardware and software rather than the size of the antenna. Stuff like this can only be discovered during evaluations, exercises or war. It's outside the realms of speculation.
 

Optimist

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Oct 31, 2021
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Not a single fighter plane or offensive platform... 😊

All the above US weapons systems have alternatives with our armed forces. During war even commercial planes and choppers can be used for transport hence these don't carry any restrictions for use. M777s too can't be blocked from usage and not High end weapons for which we can't service without OEM support.

The only offensive platform in this list is Apache helicopter which are not in huge numbers and won't affect even if grounded during wartime as soon LCH Will come in numbers.

Fighter planes are a complete different case as they need OEM support during war for spares, software updates to integrate new weapon like we did to Mirage 2K during Kargil war to carry PGMs. These can be denied and infact block fighters by blocking access to fighters especially F-35 which can be controlled by alis software, by US govt of that time if that US government doesn't want India to punish Pakistan if it becomes a US Lapdog again or against any US interest. Hence IAF is skeptical of any US fighter planes in its inventory.. 🤗
“These end-user requirements and protection of US defense equipment are universal, non-negotiable"
You have an end-user agreement. You can't pick and choose what you will abide by.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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“These end-user requirements and protection of US defense equipment are universal, non-negotiable"
You have an end-user agreement. You can't pick and choose what you will abide by.

The EUM agreement is for the protection of American IP, it has nothing to do with how a weapon system can be used.