Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

WHOHE

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
432
228
California

watch the interview and see how French have made a habit of quoting under-price bids to win the tender and then they find loopholes to increase the cost to multiple times. And like cancellation of MMRCA , the Barracuda deal too was cancelled due to unnecessary price escalation.

Also it seems like Australia is considering F35s too. So another reason for @WHOHE to mock Rafale in very near future
Australia already flies F-35's.
 

BMD

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,149
1,798
Yeesh, it's like talking to a child.

Typhoon did not have sensor fusion at the time of the Swiss evals. The end.
Tell me about it.

It did, Rafale sensor fusion must have been bloody terrible otherwise, since it only scored 0.2 higher than an aircraft you're saying had none.

Most of Europe can't fight anyway
Pick up a history book.
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,212
833
Delhi
Tell me about it.

It did, Rafale sensor fusion must have been bloody terrible otherwise, since it only scored 0.2 higher than an aircraft you're saying had none.


Pick up a history book.
Uhhmmm that era of European dominace is long gone. The day america pulls out of Europe. It wouldn't take much time for the Russians take back most fo Europe..
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
12,070
9,209
India
It did, Rafale sensor fusion must have been bloody terrible otherwise, since it only scored 0.2 higher than an aircraft you're saying had none.



NWA 2. Contracted Rafale versus uncontracted, yet-to-be-developed, fictional Typhoon. And even fictional Typhoon still lost, even if by a small margin.
 

BMD

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,149
1,798


NWA 2. Contracted Rafale versus uncontracted, yet-to-be-developed, fictional Typhoon. And even fictional Typhoon still lost, even if by a small margin.
It was still demonstrated at the time and NWA2 very much is in place now. The Rafale tested wasn't the current one either at the time.
Another US Troll here....
MMRCA "cancellation" generated an order for 36 Rafale. MMRCA2 was never released, so never cancelled.
Short fins Barracuda was not canceled for price or technical reason. Stop to be the useless idiot of @WHOHE please.

Because they choose F35.
I'd hate to see what constitutes a Bad Plan in France.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Bon Plan

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,212
833
Delhi
Whom is this "most of Europe" you speak of and can you list them?
I think Trump listed them out pretty clearly. Except for France & U.K, I think most of Europe will be steam rolled by the Russians within a month. If you remove the 'Murican back up.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,675
3,013
73
France
transition.wifeo.com
Avions de combat : pénurie et incertitudes pour le moteur du F-35
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Fighter aircraft: shortage and uncertainty for the F-35 engine


The F-35, better known for its difficulties than for its operational excellence, is facing a new major problem with the upcoming shortage of F135 engines.

Cracks in the engine blade coating

The problems were made official in February this year: the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jet's engines require more frequent maintenance than expected, the heavy maintenance facility at Tinker Air Force Base is unable to remove the 60 engines scheduled each year, and cracks in the engine's blade coating are linked to its use in hot or sandy environments. As an increasing number of aircraft reach the 2,000-hour mark for the major engine overhaul, 42 aircraft have been unable to return to the air and the figure is expected to rise to 20% of the grounded fleet by 2025. The Air Demonstration Team has been asked to cancel many of its event appearances in 2021 so as not to increase the US fleet's flying hours and associated visits.

The cost of ownership is still rising

While engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney had promised improvements in all areas, the report published at the beginning of October is bitter and the situation will continue to deteriorate: the modification of the coating on all blades is only expected at the end of the decade, and no improvement will be possible in the medium term in terms of the time required to maintain an engine or the spacing of its visits. The cost of ownership of the F-35 will therefore continue to rise, whereas it was supposed to start falling to "only" $25,000/hour by 2025. Amanda Glode, Pratt & Whitney's Director of MCO for the F135, believes that the upward trend in costs is inevitable.

Poor weight to thrust ratio

The situation is so bad that members of the US Congress and Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall are now openly advocating the launch of a development programme for a replacement for the much maligned F135. In addition to its availability and cost problems, the aircraft is considered underpowered: it takes 40 seconds longer than an F-16 to go from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2 and its poor weight/thrust ratio causes violent landings when the weather is hot and the air is less buoyant... Pratt & Whitney and General Electric Aviation have been competing since 2016 to develop the Adaptive Engine Transition Program, an engine whose technology should enable it to equip both the future B-21 Raider stealth bomber and the modernised version of the F-35, to which it will offer a 10% increase in thrust and a 25% reduction in consumption.

Towards an acceleration of the NGAD programme?

A rapid launch of the programme would allow delivery of the new engine in 2027, but US finances may not be able to support both the additional costs of maintaining the F135 and developing its successor. In any case, engineers are already clear that the small size of the F-35's air intakes - designed for stealth - will remain a limiting factor for the aircraft and that its thrust will never be as good as that of the aircraft it is to replace... Unless all this leads to a reduction in the number of F-35s ordered, in favour of an acceleration of the NGAD programme for the 6th generation aircraft, which has received favourable feedback following its first flight in 2020?
 

BMD

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,149
1,798
:ROFLMAO:

That's exactly what I've been saying all this time. It didn't exist then, it only exists today.
RBE2-AA wasn't in service then either. They were demonstrator technologies on both sides.
The F-135, once hailed as the most powerful, most advanced, best-of-all-trades engine, has fallen from its gilded pedestal with all the disgrace of its rank.
It is looking increasingly like they should have opted for the RR-GE version.
 

WHOHE

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
432
228
California
The F-135, once hailed as the most powerful, most advanced, best-of-all-trades engine, has fallen from its gilded pedestal with all the disgrace of its rank.
Lol. I just love how you post old articles as new especially frenchy articles about issues that are resolved and getting resolved.

You do know that most of these F-35's are old block 2's and trainers, right? Your article kinda left that out.

Why don't you post this at airdefense? You know why you won't post this because you'll get your *censored* handed to you.

Here ya go.

It must suck being french military follower... your subs are being rejected and so is your french plane. Next month Finland will select the F-35 and I can't wait to read your butt hurt-ness here and at airdefense.

Btw maybe you can tell me who's the imbecile that said...
"F-35's primary means of communication, the MADL datalink, only allows it to communicate with itself"
:ROFLMAO:
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,675
3,013
73
France
transition.wifeo.com
F-35 Stealth Jets Plagued By Engine Issues; Will USAF Dump ‘Low Yield’ Pratt & Whitney Engines For GE’s XA100?

BySafiya Khanam

October 11, 2021

The Lockheed Martin F-35 is the star of the US Air Force’s fleet of warplanes, offering the best stealth and being the most lethal, survivable, and one of the most technologically advanced fighter jets in the world.

However, to retain its position as a super-advanced jet, the F-35 Lightning II will require further improvements than what they already have, something a new engine could provide.

The service is evaluating whether an advanced engine could offer better thrust, efficiency in cruise, superior stealth, reduction in carbon emissions than what the previous engine did. But has the USAF found a replacement for the F-35’s engines?

The three variants of the F-35 – the F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL), the F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL), and the F-35C carrier (CV/CATOBAR)– all currently use the F135 engine developed by Pratt & Whitney.

Known as the heartbeat of the stealth jet, the engine provides more than 40,000 lbs. of thrust, unmatched low-observable signature, world-class thermal management, and the most advanced integrated engine control system delivering an unrivaled performance to 10 militaries globally.

But there is no rose without a thorn and there exists no engine that has no room for upgrades. With several reports of there being a shortage of engines, overheating and cracking of turbine blades and earlier than expected service requirements, the current F135 engines are encountering multiple issues.

This is, in turn, increasing the number of aircraft awaiting miscellaneous spare parts or are in need of upgraded F135 engine power modules and adding to the readiness issues faced by the service frequently.

Naturally, the Armed Service Committee is not satisfied with the aircraft’s sustainment and is on the lookout for an advanced engine that could deliver sizable gains in both costs as well as performance.

Adaptive Engine Transition Program

The 2022 National Defense Authorization Act (house version) requires the F-35 Joint Program Office to pursue a strategy for incorporation of the Adaptive Engine Transition Program (AETP) engine into the F-35 conventional takeoff fleet by the beginning of 2027.

The AETP is a research project by the US Air Force aiming to provide a 30% increase in range, an 18% decrease in acceleration time, and improved thermal management compared to the P&W F135 engine that currently powers the Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

Additionally, the high-thrust mode of this adaptive engine will direct the majority of air through the engine’s core and bypass turbofan streams, delivering greater thrust for combat manoeuvering. Due to the third flow having a cooling effect, the core will run hotter further increasing the fuel efficiency.

Basically, what the USAF is looking for is re-engining the F-35A with an adaptive engine to increase the aircraft’s 2,220km range which is viewed as too short for attacking targets within China.

Options Before USAF

Pratt & Whitney, the manufacturer of the current F135 engines and is currently developing the XA101 AETP engine, has offered to make modifications to its F135 that would be sufficient to meet all the Joint Strike Fighter’s future power and thrust needs with a margin.

It argues that modifications to the F135 engine can improve thrust and efficiency and would be far less costly than giving the F-35 fighter a new powerplant developed through the Adaptive Engine Transition Program.

Equipping a combat aircraft with a new engine would add another $40 billion to the overall cost of the remaining expected 50-year life of the program, according to P&F.



GE Aviation, a rival company, has received $4 billion from the USAF to develop its XA100 engine which is in the final stages of testing. The problem that lies with the GE or even P&F rivaling to offer an engine that can fit into the F-35 fuselage and be integrated with other onboard systems is that it is designed for the air force variant and not for the marine and navy variant.

The new engines – GE’s XA100 and P&W’s XA101 – are reported to run throughout the year at Arnold AFB’s Engineering Development Complex near Tullahoma in Tennessee, according to the USAF Materiel Command

But these new engine brings a gaping hole in the pockets of the budget of the united states compelling officials and experts to ask if the new, high-cost engines are worth the investment and R&D?

Ambiguity Over New Engines

Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall feels uncertain about the new engines saying that he favors pursuing a successor to the F135 only if it is affordable.

“If we have to, we’ll look hard at the affordability of going forward just as we have on the rest of the program. But those advantages are substantial. And I’d like to be able to pursue them if it’s affordable,” Kendall said during AFA’s Air, Space & Cyber Conference.

There are two contending issues regarding the new engines that are creating a sense of ambivalence and raising questions of viability, feasibility, and affordability.

First, since the new engine is intended to add to the newer F-35s along with the existing engines, the Air Force will have to incur huge costs maintaining two spare parts stores, two maintenance processes, and dual programs for training personnel. Second, the engine is only compatible with the Air Force variant which will be leaving the Navy and Marine services to use a separate support system.

Now, the responsibility F-35 Joint Program Office, which currently shoulders while conducting tradeoffs over the next 6-12 months, is to keep an eye on the feasibility and affordability concerns and define future options with the better range, stealth, extra thrust, and efficiency the new engine will bring in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashwin and BMD

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,675
3,013
73
France
transition.wifeo.com

F135 Depot Rebounds, But F-35 Engine Shortage Worsens

October 08, 2021

A shortage of Pratt & Whitney F135 engines that is already keeping more than four dozen Lockheed Martin F-35s grounded will continue to worsen. The year-old crisis has driven some lawmakers to call for replacing the F135 with an advanced new engine. And the bad news comes as the F135 program is...