Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
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New Delhi
I don't know why we play with straight bat with cheats? China broke every agreement when they came charging in in Ladakh but we idiots are still sticking to agreements which have already been broken by China and also insisting on pre April 2020 status. Why should we not ask them to revert to pre 1962 status? And when they have violated all the agreements, why must we stick to them? let the gloves be off and we must again occupy Kailash range and also areas else where along LAC. Why confine to just Ladakh? The more we get aggressive on LAC, more mischief will Pakistan do on LOC. That will give us a reason to take out Pakistan and once we take out Pakistan, we will be able to divert about three corps to the chinese border and after that even Lhasa will be much nearer.
 

screambowl

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
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switzerland
You should remember that talks are being held at military level and commanders need to send that message.

The external affairs minister said that India and China had to “deal with each other on merits” and establish a relationship based on mutual respect.
This Idiot intervened and things got spoilt. Had sushma swaraj been there China would have moved back. Just like in Doklam.

 

Cole_phelps

Well-Known member
Jun 19, 2019
639
766
India
problem with India is that we are playing to china's strength not their weakness. One of the reasons why pakistan resorts to terrorism is the enormous cost advantage. Instead of trying to match china boot for boot ,bullet for bullet we need to find other ways to tie them down and raise the cost of confrontation. The existing idea of arming ourselves to teeth wont simply work with china.

You have to be ahead of China in terms of cutting edge technology by acquiring western weapons that are reliable, easy to maintain and always work. Two most important platforms are fighter jets and submarines that we have to have major edge over China. Second option is to have our platforms with advanced western weapons. We'll have to cut some corners for Atmanirbhar Bharat as our home grown weapons may match china and Paxtan but won't outclass them.
 

vvabhiram

Well-Known member
Sep 18, 2019
207
347
Andhra Pradesh
I don't know why we play with straight bat with cheats? China broke every agreement when they came charging in in Ladakh but we idiots are still sticking to agreements which have already been broken by China and also insisting on pre April 2020 status. Why should we not ask them to revert to pre 1962 status? And when they have violated all the agreements, why must we stick to them? let the gloves be off and we must again occupy Kailash range and also areas else where along LAC. Why confine to just Ladakh? The more we get aggressive on LAC, more mischief will Pakistan do on LOC. That will give us a reason to take out Pakistan and once we take out Pakistan, we will be able to divert about three corps to the chinese border and after that even Lhasa will be much nearer.
Not gonna happen sir with our current ruling dispensation and babus ....

Remember the mantra is ... "Downplay the threat.. No one occupied our lands, Indian soldiers are grazing sheep"
 
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SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
131
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Kerala
sorry, but people from Himachal Uttarakhand Ladakh North East can't focus on economy when death is sitting up there on hills. It's easily said than done. It hardly affects people in Kerala or Tamil Nadu its not a border state and but those people up there in hills are facing the PLA! And that another version of Kirshna Menon = S Jaishanker must realize this soon it will be better for his career before he gets the bloat.

1962 you focused on economy people of Ladakh lost their land Uttarakhand lost Mansarovar kailash. We need Aksai Chin and Mansarovar back for better tourism to focus on economy.
there are plenty of water resources and it will add to our economy!
First of all ,Dont try to establish these borderstates inland states shit here.
Each of the states have their own way .
It is the Southern states that house more or less technology and economy .
Always keep that in mind
And now what is your bright plan to defend them?
You dont know the Chinese or you didnt learn a single lesson but the policy makers knows who are they .
This negotiation is just a drama to buy some time .Chinese wont respect any deals or negotiations they dont care at all.
All of these issues started after 2019 and the reason whether you likes or not was the abrogation of article 370 .
Its not the abrogation but the speed and planning of the GoI that caused anxiety in them.
Second reason was rigorous infrastructure Construction at border .

And its not India ,Its is the China that wants a war now .And they wont invade because that will severly backfire to them .They want India as invaders .In such a case world community including Quad will abstain from issue and India will face two front war .
They will get two benefits from it.They will get international support and their internal issues will clear.Last year their performance in their nation for their killed soldiers was for the same strategy .Consolidating their citizens and fanning nationalism.


Problem in India is that we cant act for now..We had opportunity two decades before but thanks to the moronic UPA there was no preparation both in economic or military Industry side .
After this Govt infrastructure construction started.But within that time they finished theirs and was very well prepared.

And suppose if India starts the war , what would be the result .?There will be two chance.
In both cases in one way or another India will be defeated .
Conventional way China can tear India's defense.
They have 18 trillion economy to back up.
Almost 6 times that of India's.They want a war like that because they can test their newly developed weapons .
Considering nationalist rule in India next worst scenario will happen ,mobilizing nuclear force.
It would be a great event and still India will be on losers side because we will stamp as invaders.

China also has additional advantage .Pakistan .
.
All they need to do to give a blanck checks to our moronic neighbour and they are eagerly looking for it .

Whatever the case India will lose .

Do you want that ?

We dont want that because we are not stupid

Its a cold mountain desert and all it takes high tech intense strong military action which we can do in future if we want .
So you to use your brain not dick for strategy
 
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SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
131
100
Kerala
Taiwan has maintained the ability to make nukes since decades. They are considered a threshold nuclear weapons state. So they can make a nuke whenever they want to.

China is not considered an existential threat to India. Any border war will remain conventional.

You think our current rulers will allow a repeat of 1962.?
Considering how the PMO reacted after Commander Abhinandan case it wont be that easy .PM Modi is not that kind of flexible guy.

Our strategy is correct now.
Stop the Chinese from further incursion dramas .Complete the infrastructure.
Pump up the economy .
Ensure at least 70% of self reliance in military purchase sphere .Develop our own Aircraft industry .
Until then keep them within negotiation and occasional incursion in to their land .
If the Govt is 100% committed it might take at least one decade .

Taiwan will be safe because this time US will interfere .Not because they love them but their economy and TSMC like industries
 

Defc0n

Well-Known member
Sep 8, 2019
693
730
India
You think our current rulers will allow a repeat of 1962.?
Considering how the PMO reacted after Commander Abhinandan case it wont be that easy .PM Modi is not that kind of flexible guy.

Our strategy is correct now.
Stop the Chinese from further incursion dramas .Complete the infrastructure.
Pump up the economy .
Ensure at least 70% of self reliance in military purchase sphere .Develop our own Aircraft industry .
Until then keep them within negotiation and occasional incursion in to their land .
If the Govt is 100% committed it might take at least one decade .

Taiwan will be safe because this time US will interfere .Not because they love them but their economy and TSMC like industries

US will not do jack if China takes over Taiwan. Specially not the Biden administration. This I can guarantee. Verbal support is one thing, sending own soldiers to die for another country is completely different. If the Afganistan crisis has shown anything, it is how inept the planners are in US as well. So Taiwan either has to defend itself or be sh*t scared of consequences.

As far as Ladakh and Arunachal are concerned, China will receive a bloody nose from IA & IAF if things escalate. Let's see if they have the will to start a shooting war.

Just to point out this fact - we didn't do sh*t after Abhinandan's capture - after PAF tried to target our military installations on 28th morning. Targeting of our military installations should have had severe retaliation. If getting them to release Abhinandan is to be considered as an "achievement" we better not talk about fighting a war. Then let's not talk about how the entire episode was milked for the then upcoming elections...
 

SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
131
100
Kerala
US will not do jack if China takes over Taiwan. Specially not the Biden administration. This I can guarantee. Verbal support is one thing, sending own soldiers to die for another country is completely different. If the Afganistan crisis has shown anything, it is how inept the planners are in US as well. So Taiwan either has to defend itself or be sh*t scared of consequences.

As far as Ladakh and Arunachal are concerned, China will receive a bloody nose from IA & IAF if things escalate. Let's see if they have the will to start a shooting war.

Just to point out this fact - we didn't do sh*t after Abhinandan's capture - after PAF tried to target our military installations on 28th morning. Targeting of our military installations should have had severe retaliation. If getting them to release Abhinandan is to be considered as an "achievement" we better not talk about fighting a war. Then let's not talk about how the entire episode was milked for the then upcoming elections...

No US will interfere.
Otherwise they can say bye bye to an ally that contributes 23% of world semiconductor industry or US influence will drastically reduced .
They can do that also.
Japanese airbase have even top end fighters like F 22.
Afghanistan was nothing and leaving like that will give them profit .
Here if anything happens to Taiwan a lots of US Corporates will face trouble.Americans cares money not people.

Of Course let them develop our own MIC then talks about war
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,202
827
Delhi


This Idiot intervened and things got spoilt. Had sushma swaraj been there China would have moved back. Just like in Doklam.

Just read the tweets. He is literally bending backwards to appease the Chinese. Iyer Mitra was not wrong when he said MEA is compromised.
 

Defc0n

Well-Known member
Sep 8, 2019
693
730
India
No US will interfere.
Otherwise they can say bye bye to an ally that contributes 23% of world semiconductor industry or US influence will drastically reduced .
They can do that also.
Japanese airbase have even top end fighters like F 22.
Afghanistan was nothing and leaving like that will give them profit .
Here if anything happens to Taiwan a lots of US Corporates will face trouble.Americans cares money not people.

Of Course let them develop our own MIC then talks about war
Time will tell, with the Biden administration, it looks highly unlikely.

Meanwhile,

 

Jaymax

Well-Known member
Apr 1, 2019
907
902
3rd Rock from the Sun
Does it not look like China is doing to us what we tried to do to Pak - the US plan on USSR - kill them by raising the costs.

LAC is now a money sink. Winter deployments even more so.

Its going to be another winter of waste. A needless deployment for India caused by decades of flacid lethargy.

Pak - Does not dare start a war
Ind - Will never start a war
Chn - Does not need to start a war
 

Defc0n

Well-Known member
Sep 8, 2019
693
730
India
Does it not look like China is doing to us what we tried to do to Pak - the US plan on USSR - kill them by raising the costs.

LAC is now a money sink. Winter deployments even more so.

Its going to be another winter of waste. A needless deployment for India caused by decades of flacid lethargy.

Pak - Does not dare start a war
Ind - Will never start a war
Chn - Does not need to start a war
Exactly. This is the reason I said in an earlier post, the last thing we need is the
LOC-ISATION of the LAC. We need to break the chain here.
 

screambowl

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
2,541
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switzerland
Does it not look like China is doing to us what we tried to do to Pak - the US plan on USSR - kill them by raising the costs.

LAC is now a money sink. Winter deployments even more so.

Its going to be another winter of waste. A needless deployment for India caused by decades of flacid lethargy.

Pak - Does not dare start a war
Ind - Will never start a war
Chn - Does not need to start a war
Exactly. This is the reason I said in an earlier post, the last thing we need is the
LOC-ISATION of the LAC. We need to break the chain here.

Take POK especially the area in touch with Wakhan. The dynamics will change.
 
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Jaymax

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Apr 1, 2019
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3rd Rock from the Sun
Exactly. This is the reason I said in an earlier post, the last thing we need is the
LOC-ISATION of the LAC. We need to break the chain here.

But how to do that. GoI will not start a conflict that much we know. The feasible outline is to smash PA's offensive capacity, realign the LoC to reduce infiltration and pivot on to China, reinforcing ourselves but not taking any bait where we go deep and get hammered.

Offense of LoC and Deterrence on LAC.

A clean cut limited objective 3-4 week plan with clear defined objectives free from all political interference driven purely by Military objectives preferably confined to Kashmir/Ladakh area only.

Will it win any brownie points or be a GRAND victory? No

Will it improve our on ground situation - YES.
 

screambowl

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
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First of all ,Dont try to establish these borderstates inland states shit here.
Shivshankar menon, Nirupama Rao , G parthasarthy, Ranjan Mathai have led the MEA and misguided the ministers so that they don't have to do much work and retire in peace with pension.

MK naryanan and Shiv Shankar menon were the NSA from 2005 to 2010 and 2010 to 2013 respectively what did they do? The govt changed and brought in Doval other wise Ranjan Mathai was the next NSA.. Bunch of losers.


It is the Southern states that house more or less technology and economy .
Always keep that in mind
And now what is your bright plan to defend them?

Ladakh Arunachal Uttarakhand Sikkim and Himachal have lost territories in 1962. Because that Krishna Menon was busy giving business to south. Where was he when China attacked in 1962 some one please google.

Had Sushma Sawaraj been there she would have negotiated. This Jaishanker is a babu without decision making capability because he is not a leader he doesnt know how to talk.

You dont know the Chinese or you didnt learn a single lesson but the policy makers knows who are they .

Ask some kid from from sikkim or Arunachal, he knows more about China than these diplomats who enjoy their tea in their cosy rooms on tax payers money.
And suppose if India starts the war , what would be the result .?There will be two chance.
In both cases in one way or another India will be defeated .
Conventional way China can tear India's defense.
They have 18 trillion economy to back up.
Almost 6 times that of India's.They want a war like that because they can test their newly developed weapons .
Considering nationalist rule in India next worst scenario will happen ,mobilizing nuclear force.
It would be a great event and still India will be on losers side because we will stamp as invaders.

Your economy will not go beyond 5 trillion even in next 500 years because you do not have resources. . Past 70 years we are only shouting economy economy economy and fooling eachother.

Why Indians don't understand that that region of tibet and POK is your economy!!! And this is why they have cut you from central Asia and EU. Are chinese fools making roads throughout the world?

I mean this is insanity of Indians! Blind people!! Nikamme log hai hum. Gadhe hai hum.
 
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SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
131
100
Kerala
Shivshankar menon, Nirupama Rao , G parthasarthy, Ranjan Mathai have led the MEA and misguided the ministers so that they don't have to do much work and retire in peace with pension.

MK naryanan and Shiv Shankar menon were the NSA from 2005 to 2010 and 2010 to 2013 respectively what did they do? The govt changed and brought in Doval other wise Ranjan Mathai was the next NSA.. Bunch of losers.




Ladakh Arunachal Uttarakhand Sikkim and Himachal have lost territories in 1962. Because that Krishna Menon was busy giving business to south. Where was he when China attacked in 1962 some one please google.

Had Sushma Sawaraj been there she would have negotiated. This Jaishanker is a babu without decision making capability because he is not a leader he doesnt know how to talk.



Ask some kid from from sikkim or Arunachal, he knows more about China than these diplomats who enjoy their tea in their cosy rooms on tax payers money.


Your economy will not go beyond 5 trillion even in next 500 years because you do not have resources. . Past 70 years we are only shouting economy economy economy and fooling eachother.

Why Indians don't understand that that region of tibet and POK is your economy!!! And this is why they have cut you from central Asia and EU. Are chinese fools making roads throughout the world?

I mean this is insanity of Indians! Blind people!! Nikamme log hai hum. Gadhe hai hum.

If the ministers are that much losers they have to find some other jobs .
These officials are not the one that controlled PMO or power.RAW was directly under the PMO .They wont report none of them above .
What they did all these years?

And what exactly these Doval changed at ground ?
Nothing .
Problem is still there , you have an unsettled unmarked border and fluctuating Chinese.
PMO initially gave NSA the full authority to deal both Chinese and Pakistan.
He had final answer about them then what happened.
Later MEA took charge means NSA performance didnt satisfied the PM.
Suppose India invades China ,What do the Indians actually have to decisively change the situation on the ground?
Nothing .
And what you are exactly going to do about it ?
Nothing .
Chinese have money and technology .
Any kind of war most probably a lots of lands of the states you mentioned will ended up with them.Or you have to spend entire resources on it.
When you had the time and opportunity and you didnt perform then this will happen .

Chinese had a vision and motivation .
MEA purpose is diplomacy not a war .
Diplomats can bargain only up to where the comprehensive national power can support .
And where the democratic system wasnt up tomark.

Unlike the morons in the North ,South Indians spend much resources for education ,infrastructure etc.We have good law and order in South
Private companies only looks for that .
And if North failed in that aspect that is not our issue

Resources and everything is here.
But the attitude of the people that need to change.
From 2014 PM regularly talk about Swatch Bharat .
But our so called Sanatan North Indians cant go to railway station without pan spitting and Govt spends 1200 crore only to clean that shit .
 

Jaymax

Well-Known member
Apr 1, 2019
907
902
3rd Rock from the Sun
If the ministers are that much losers they have to find some other jobs .
These officials are not the one that controlled PMO or power.RAW was directly under the PMO .They wont report none of them above .
What they did all these years?

And what exactly these Doval changed at ground ?
Nothing .
Problem is still there , you have an unsettled unmarked border and fluctuating Chinese.
PMO initially gave NSA the full authority to deal both Chinese and Pakistan.
He had final answer about them then what happened.
Later MEA took charge means NSA performance didnt satisfied the PM.
Suppose India invades China ,What do the Indians actually have to decisively change the situation on the ground?
Nothing .
And what you are exactly going to do about it ?
Nothing .
Chinese have money and technology .
Any kind of war most probably a lots of lands of the states you mentioned will ended up with them.Or you have to spend entire resources on it.
When you had the time and opportunity and you didnt perform then this will happen .

Chinese had a vision and motivation .
MEA purpose is diplomacy not a war .
Diplomats can bargain only up to where the comprehensive national power can support .
And where the democratic system wasnt up tomark.

Unlike the morons in the North ,South Indians spend much resources for education ,infrastructure etc.We have good law and order in South
Private companies only looks for that .
And if North failed in that aspect that is not our issue

Resources and everything is here.
But the attitude of the people that need to change.
From 2014 PM regularly talk about Swatch Bharat .
But our so called Sanatan North Indians cant go to railway station with pan spitting and Govt spends 1200 crore only to clean that shit .

@Ashwin for your review.
 

screambowl

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
2,541
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switzerland
If the ministers are that much losers they have to find some other jobs .

Nair Sahab please understand that Chinese don't consider S. Jaishanker equivalent to a minister. They see him as an official who used to adress the Chinese leaders with folded hands as 'sir' because he is not an elected leader of the nation. I am sure if Rajnath Singh or Amit Shah had negotiated they would have considered it.

Chinese know everything about S Jaishanker and his attitude, they analysed him long ago when he was India's envoy in Beijing. Please try to understand what I am trying to say.
These officials are not the one that controlled PMO or power.RAW was directly under the PMO .
They came on the reference and backing of P Chidambram. They reported to every one. PMO that time was not strong as it is now.
And what exactly these Doval changed at ground ?
Doval knows inside out of Pakistan and China. It's only Doval who doesn't need preparation and briefing, he needs signal, he knows what he can do . The previous ones had no clue. That's the difference.
Later MEA took charge means NSA performance didnt satisfied the PM.

The current NSA is offensive in nature, he is the one who planned border infrastructure along LAC which pissed the Chinese.. If PM wants sissy people then there are many in India can pick any one. But don't complain later.
Resources and everything is here.

You don't make policy for now, you make policy considering your grand children as well.
 

SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
131
100
Kerala
Nair Sahab please understand that Chinese don't consider S. Jaishanker equivalent to a minister. They see him as an official who used to adress the Chinese leaders with folded hands as 'sir' because he is not an elected leader of the nation. I am sure if Rajnath Singh or Amit Shah had negotiated they would have considered it.

Chinese know everything about S Jaishanker and his attitude, they analysed him long ago when he was India's envoy in Beijing. Please try to understand what I am trying to say.

They came on the reference and backing of P Chidambram. They reported to every one. PMO that time was not strong as it is now.

Doval knows inside out of Pakistan and China. It's only Doval who doesn't need preparation and briefing, he needs signal, he knows what he can do . The previous ones had no clue. That's the difference.


The current NSA is offensive in nature, he is the one who planned border infrastructure along LAC which pissed the Chinese.. If PM wants sissy people then there are many in India can pick any one. But don't complain later.


You don't make policy for now, you make policy considering your grand children as well.

Chinese knows everyone.
And they also knows the last decision would be from PM Modi .
Be it Shah,Rajnath,JaiShankar or Doval it would be always depends upon PM.
And they knows PM Modi unpredictable nature .

The problem is simple.
Chinese comprehensive national power is at least 4 times bigger than India .
They have the bargaining chip.
It was the negligence for past Congress Govt that made this mess
Chinese knows ,unlike Taiwan ,India is a powerful opponent .So they are not interested in an invasion .
They want India to do an invasion against them.

Current policy is correct and if we can keep this momentum for next 1 decade then possibly we can challenge the China decisvely.
Until then we have to keep the military there to prevent any further activity from Chinese .
That is only option.
It would be expensive.
But its also an opportunity to strengthen our nation
@Ashwin for your review.
No point in tagging Mod.

When you cant properly comprehend a situation donot go haywire on arguments.

Problem is a problem if there is a problem.
Bad social activities in some parts is really affects the reputation of India
 
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jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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997
India
Why should we not ask them to revert to pre 1962 status?
Asking will make us look like fools before aggressive chinese. They will only laugh at us. We must act , take whatever we want then go to negotiations from a position of strength.
No one takes India seriously as our ability to act or get things done is pretty dismal. If India needs to have credibility they should first act then talk. All our actions so far only have indicated that we dont want a fight and chinese are emboldened by that. It is is similar to what americans did in afghanistan who kept cribbing all the time about running away from the country while making bombastic statements on how they will secure afghanistan.