LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Possibly IAF chief has quietened down about Mk2 so that he can demand 114 MRFA. He knows that Mk2 in good numbers will anyway be imposed on IAF, so why not ask for the best 4++ gen aircraft so that it can come in the shortest possible time? Mk2 will also be a good addition to the force mix.

There's nothing for the IAF to talk about the Mk2 right now. It's a crucial capability, not just a good addition.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Not even 36 Rafales...we want 114 MRFA, I am not sure where is the budget for this :rolleyes:... Are we going close all our indigenous programs?

The deal's gonna play out when we our GDP's between $5T to $10T, ie 2027-2037. Out of the IAF's $7-8B capital budget a year, the LCA outgo is less than $1B a year on average. There will be enough funds for an accelerated induction by then, like what we did with MKI between 2009 and 2015.
 

thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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Not even 36 Rafales...we want 114 MRFA, I am not sure where is the budget for this :rolleyes:... Are we going close all our indigenous programs?
If the LCA program did not close when it was at its weakest, we can be confident that our indigenous programs like Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA etc will continue. Our project management needs to improve a lot.
 

thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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There's nothing for the IAF to talk about the Mk2 right now. It's a crucial capability, not just a good addition.
Ya, Mk2 is going nowhere; it's here for good. I agree that it'll be a vital addition. But IAF does not want to allow the GoI to restrict them to only indigenous aircraft untill AMCA becomes worthy.
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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Yea, I also believed it got to do with GE 414 engines. But reading again..
It may also denote some engine JV or kaveri dry.. Is in pipeline for New jet - Tedbf / Drone - Ghatak making Mk2 less likely option to be exercised. .
I am overthinking here..

MWF getting orders is logical and more probable.
For all you know this must be some inside joke based on information that HVT & Hellfire are privy to.

Apparently the new partner for GTRE to develop the latest iteration of the Kaveri which is expected to power the AMCA Mk2 will be finalized next year. It's likely to be RR but no official or unofficial confirmation or news of this has come through at present except old reports from the recent past.

Then there's also talk of an alternative to develop another iteration of the Kaveri with another party ( SAFRAN ?) for the Mk1 / Mk1A / Mk2 during it's MLU which as of this time is too far in the future to consider but work for which must commence soon.
 
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randomradio

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Ya, Mk2 is going nowhere; it's here for good. I agree that it'll be a vital addition. But IAF does not want to allow the GoI to only think about indigenous aircracft only till AMCA becomes a worthy aircraft.

Mk2 deliveries will begin even before the MRFA contract is signed.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
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Mk2 deliveries will begin even before the MRFA contract is signed.

I have observed one thing
That DRDO and HAL are talking very optimistically for Both MK 2 and AMCA

However , There is No good justification or explanation for delays of MK 1A

MK1A ,first plane will be available in FOC configuration in 2024

Two Test beds are coming out in 2022

So obviously MK 2 serial production cannot begin before 2026

AMCA even much later

We need a Rafale 114 order ASAP
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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I have observed one thing
That DRDO and HAL are talking very optimistically for Both MK 2 and AMCA

However , There is No good justification or explanation for delays of MK 1A

MK1A ,first plane will be available in FOC configuration in 2024

Two Test beds are coming out in 2022

So obviously MK 2 serial production cannot begin before 2026

AMCA even much later

We need a Rafale 114 order ASAP

The delays with Mk1A were financial. First, the Israelis charged a lot for their stuff and prices had to be brought down through a tender. Then, HAL overcharged the MoD and needed negotiations. Anyway, the delays would have helped fine tune the airframe even more. The objective was a late 2018 contract signature, but was delayed to early 2021. It's pretty okay.

Definitely would have been nice to see all 83 delivered by 2025 though, but if the delay has allowed for the further indigenisation of the aircraft with an Indian radar, then that's at least something.
 

jk007

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Apr 9, 2020
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Boston, USA
So MRFA will be signed after 2026? :mad:
Or maybe later, we should thank IAF / MOD etc for giving us opportunity to discuss ad nauseum and ad infinitum.

Many times, I wonder what would have happened if Pak is at least 60% of GDP of India, with a good defence budget.

I am removing China from equation, as I can't believe we can do more than holding something, while allowing them to take what they want, while speaking all hyperbole.

Now, welcoming brickbats from folks who get offended with this post.

PS: After the way reformist farm bills are removed, something broke inside me and I lost much hope.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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So MRFA will be signed after 2026? :mad:

Pretty normal. MMRCA began in Aug 2007 and L1 annoucement was made in Jan 2012. So that's 4+ years. We could have signed a contract the same year had things gone fine. So minimum 5 years.

Assuming MRFA takes 3+ years, and a further 6 months to a year for a signature, it will take us into 2026 at the minimum. Add a potential extra year for any sort of delays, particularly contract negotiations. So 2026-2027. And 3 years for first jet, so 2029-30.

We are at least 8 years away post RFP for potentially seeing the result. :p
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Nov 30, 2017
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Pretty normal. MMRCA began in Aug 2007 and L1 annoucement was made in Jan 2012. So that's 4+ years. We could have signed a contract the same year had things gone fine. So minimum 5 years.

Assuming MRFA takes 3+ years, and a further 6 months to a year for a signature, it will take us into 2026 at the minimum. Add a potential extra year for any sort of delays, particularly contract negotiations. So 2026-2027. And 3 years for first jet, so 2029-30.

We are at least 8 years away post RFP for potentially seeing the result. :p
But the Chinese have time to invade Taiwan first and turn against India later. 😟
 

jk007

Member
Apr 9, 2020
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But the Chinese have time to invade Taiwan first and turn against India later. 😟
Remember, after 1962 debacle and having lost all respect / significant amount of land, the then indian prime Minister said India had "dharma" on our side.

We still have it (i.e. dharma), and will still have it in future (i.e. after another debacle).

PS: Actually, the Chinese don't need to invade us. They can simply fund some NGOs, "farmer" organisations etc etc...we will break ourselves apart.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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But the Chinese have time to invade Taiwan first and turn against India later. 😟

Yes. Even though it's 8 years away, we need at least 2 more years to get at least 2 squadrons. So it's actually 10 years. An RFP in 2022 will give us minimum fighting capability only in 2032. And this is with Rafale. If some other jet wins, then it will take 2 more years at the minimum. To make matters worse, the tender has to cross a general election in 2024. Which is why I wanted a second order of 36 Rafales before starting MRFA. But it's unclear if the IAF will buy 2 more Rafale squadrons after MRFA begins.

Thankfully we will have a lot of SAMs by then.
 

HariPrasad

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Dec 5, 2018
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The LCA was total shit at the time. The IAF "babus" were right, the design had to undergo changes before being accepted, and Mk2 is that change.

The Mk1A is a stopgap for the Mk2. It was accepted only because the IAF was that desperate and the PAF had failed to modernise. If MMRCA was signed or the Mig-21s had 5 more years, the Mk1A wouldn't have happened. Had the PAF modernised as well, the Mk1A would not have happened. Since the Mk1 was designed as an F-16 killer anyway, it worked out. Had the PAF bought the J-10 instead of JF-17, the Mk1A wouldn't have happened.

MK1 A can kick @$$ of J10 any day. Even F16 can do that. In BVR combat, Tejas will overwhelmingly prevail. In close combat, it will be a close fight.
 

Sathya

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Dec 2, 2017
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MK1 A can kick @$$ of J10 any day. Even F16 can do that. In BVR combat, Tejas will overwhelmingly prevail. In close combat, it will be a close fight.

With quite a lot of optimization, Mk2 will be the one to beat.
Just the reduction in radome size brings so much overall improvement.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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MK1 A can kick @$$ of J10 any day. Even F16 can do that. In BVR combat, Tejas will overwhelmingly prevail. In close combat, it will be a close fight.
TBH Mk1/1A is a lot smaller than J10/F16 and is L-MRCA. J10 is M-MRCA with higher thrust engine, higher payload, fuel capacity, bigger AESA radar and more hard points.
So it’s unfair comparison. As said above Mk2/MWF is the real competition of J10 category MRCA. It has a good chance to outperform J10 in almost all performance parameters.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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MK1 A can kick @$$ of J10 any day. Even F16 can do that. In BVR combat, Tejas will overwhelmingly prevail. In close combat, it will be a close fight.
Using Tejas will be too costly for war. We will throw Kadi Ninda and Ghor Ninda missiles in response to thousands of CMs and BMs flying into India in the first 30 minutes of any conflict.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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Using Tejas will be too costly for war. We will throw Kadi Ninda and Ghor Ninda missiles in response to thousands of CMs and BMs flying into India in the first 30 minutes of any conflict.
And use 65 inch for Area Defence.
Also all those loose canons produced by BoJoP should be installed on LAC to saturate them with Bakwas missiles.