Is history actually written by victors ?

Golden_Rule

Boundless Seeker
Dec 6, 2017
988
666
USA
Well, yes, and no.

Why do want to shift effusions of great quantities of water vapour from one thread to another? Is this a forum or a heat exchanger?
First - your comments project immense amount of "fact, proof, rationality and common sense" based thinking. You reject anything which does not comply with your "systems thinking built over fundamentals of above". I really like it and appreciate it and somehow think that you are an ardent student of "Edward de Bono" - bonobashi :LOL:

Now a Question to you - Assume Christianity and Islam would have never happened in the world, and no other culture would have invaded India - like the Huns, Alexander, etc. Also I am assuming that you consider Chanakya, Maurya, and Buddha to be part of Indian history. However I consider it to extend further beyond to Krishna's period, Ram's period and the pure meditative Sages. Ignoring what my understanding of history is, but simply based on your understanding of India's history, how would you comprehend the adherence Indian people from vast times of past, the discourse of immense knowledge in mathematics, geometry, accuracy of vedic astronomical measurements, Zero and decimal system, Ayurveda, architecture, metallurgy - the Iron pillar of Delhi, the Vedas, Uppanishads, discovery of submerged city of Dwarka thru marine archeology, discovery of Saraswati, Rama Setu, and several other Shashtras, Sutras, Puranas, Vedangas, Itihas, Cosmology confirmed by modern scientific findings, the concept of Yugas, the age of Universe, and the whole system of ancient Indian knowledge.

Do you think this whole ocean of Indian Smriti and Shruti as documented from ages is simply a consolidation of several fiction writers through ages as Churchill thought or like that British guy McCauly in 1835 demeaned; and that the Indian people have been living in some fictitious make believe world of their own which has absolutely no relation to the grand reality?

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aravind

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
This is written in Mahabharatha. It is not edited recently. These people came to know of world map only in the last 300 years. Mahabharatha had it written much before. So, it is a fact, not fiction.

I am not speaking of Quran here as this is a thread of history being written by victors. Quran is revelation, not history
WHAT is written in the Mahabharata is important, not when it was written. To take such vague references and retro-fit a geographic model to it is more or less on the lines of the learned idiot who professed to present the aerodynamics of the Pushpaka Vimana to a scientific audience.

You might find it useful for passing the time on a forum such as this, that seems to have vast tolerance for such idiocy. but it won't last for more than two minutes anywhere else (gatherings of bhakts excepted).
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
This is written in Mahabharatha. It is not edited recently. These people came to know of world map only in the last 300 years. Mahabharatha had it written much before. So, it is a fact, not fiction.

I am not speaking of Quran here as this is a thread of history being written by victors. Quran is revelation, not history
If you are able to show a useable Indian map that is 300 years old, that would be an achievement.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
In Israel, in Arab, in there language. They call people from India as "Hind".
Religious BS in which sense? Geographical sense? In muslim country, Afghanistan, there is a place called as Hindu Kush. The definition is

That is religious BS too? Or are you suggesting we should stop learning geography and history. Because that is religious BS?
Some 150 years ago, there was no word Hindu. That was required for bureaucratic purposes. That is religious BS too?
It seems that you don't read your excerpts. That meaning Hindu Kush is a possible meaning. It is not established to be so, except by victimhood seeking bhakts and triumphalist Muslim bigots. Both these sets should be locked into the same room, and the world relieved of their annoyance.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
In Israel, in Arab, in there language. They call people from India as "Hind".
Religious BS in which sense? Geographical sense? In muslim country, Afghanistan, there is a place called as Hindu Kush. The definition is

That is religious BS too? Or are you suggesting we should stop learning geography and history. Because that is religious BS?
Some 150 years ago, there was no word Hindu. That was required for bureaucratic purposes. That is religious BS too?
Apparently you don't even know in which language the people from India are called 'Hind'.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Actually, Duryodhana was called Suyodhana the good one, it was his Mamaji Shakuni who scripted the whole thing as retaliation for Duryodhana enslaving Gandhara kings and putting them to death in penal colony It was Afghanistan which was Gandharis place of birth.
The point being? this is a fable, this is not history. Not other than for the cow-belt.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
It described all kings and allies who took part in war, even the South Indian kings of Andhra Pradesh, Even Patala ,South america was described , QuetzalCoatl is a reptilian god Incas,aztecs prayed to, You need to read 'popul vuh' Your world starts 3-2000 yrs ago, our world starts lakhs of years ago.
Hindu units of time - Wikipedia
First, that list of kings means nothing. The Mahabharata was written around a core section a fraction of its current volume (about one fifth). It is plain silly to take the accretions of subsequent times and present them as knowledge of the entire territory of India. Second, the latest revisions of the Mahabharata may have been as late as 400 AD; using the present text as any kind of historical evidence is plain barmy.

Your maculay missionary education doesn't mean our scriptures are wrong,
No, the education type does not mean that our scriptures are wrong. It is a study of history that clearly separates fable from fact.

let me ask how does canonisation happen,
There is a process whereby the Catholic Church takes evidence of apparent miracles that have occurred due to a candidate for canonisation possessing the right divine grace. Only the superstitious and religion laden believe in this nonsense. How this is relevant to a discussion on history is difficult to fathom.

red sea parting,
Complete fiction. Nothing of the sort is scientifically possible. This is the Christians and the Jews at their gullible best. At this level, they compare well with Hindu idiots.

immaculate conception,
Like any other hedge scholar, you don't seem to know what immaculate conception refers to. Look it up before citing it.

rise from dead happen?.
Only an idiot would claim that anyone can rise from the dead. Are you one of them?

It would be better if you stuck to your Evangelism propaganda that 'we Dharmics got enlightenment only after YOU ABRAHAMICS came ' instead of ridiculing our Dharmic faith,
"We are intolerant Hindus " remember. ;)
Actually you are barking up the wrong tree. I am not enthusiastic about evangelism, as I am not, in the first place, a Christian.

As for you, I certainly wouldn't say that you got enlightenment after the Abrahamics came; I would say you have a long way to go for enlightenment. A couple of centuries for you individually, perhaps less for other more fortunate ones.

The intolerant Hindu existed long before Abrahamics came into India. You don't probably know either date, but that's about the extent of your knowledge; sketchy, very sketchy.

You do realise how stupid each succeeding post of yours appears? It gets more and more ludicrous.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
First - your comments project immense amount of "fact, proof, rationality and common sense" based thinking. You reject anything which does not comply with your "systems thinking built over fundamentals of above". I really like it and appreciate it and somehow think that you are an ardent student of "Edward de Bono" - bonobashi :LOL:

Now a Question to you - Assume Christianity and Islam would have never happened in the world, and no other culture would have invaded India - like the Huns, Alexander, etc. Also I am assuming that you consider Chanakya, Maurya, and Buddha to be part of Indian history. However I consider it to extend further beyond to Krishna's period, Ram's period and the pure meditative Sages. Ignoring what my understanding of history is, but simply based on your understanding of India's history, how would you comprehend the adherence Indian people from vast times of past, the discourse of immense knowledge in mathematics, geometry, accuracy of vedic astronomical measurements, Zero and decimal system, Ayurveda, architecture, metallurgy - the Iron pillar of Delhi, the Vedas, Uppanishads, discovery of submerged city of Dwarka thru marine archeology, discovery of Saraswati, Rama Setu, and several other Shashtras, Sutras, Puranas, Vedangas, Itihas, Cosmology confirmed by modern scientific findings, the concept of Yugas, the age of Universe, and the whole system of ancient Indian knowledge.

Do you think this whole ocean of Indian Smriti and Shruti as documented from ages is simply a consolidation of several fiction writers through ages as Churchill thought or like that British guy McCauly in 1835 demeaned; and that the Indian people have been living in some fictitious make believe world of their own which has absolutely no relation to the grand reality?

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
What IS your question? The last two paragraphs?
 

Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
1,158
1,245
Badacow7
The point being? this is a fable, this is not history. Not other than for the cow-belt.
Ehh.. are you sane? i am a Telugu guy from Telangana, your typical South Indian, Mr.Bonglodeshi. don't tell me what is our history, I got my family tree dating beyond Vijayanagara Empire. So stick to your Red sea parting fable, don't peddle in things you watch with your Sickular googles.
Sucks for you, i feel the same as my North Indian family, Sri Adi Shankaracharya from Kerala united all Hindus pan India.
What exactly is COW-BELT FOR YOU? i feed cows every Saturday. Am i too Cow Belt? :giggle:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kshithij Sharma

Golden_Rule

Boundless Seeker
Dec 6, 2017
988
666
USA
What IS your question? The last two paragraphs?
Yes,

1. How would you comprehend the adherence Indian people from vast times of past, the discourse of immense knowledge in ....

2. Do you think this whole ocean of Indian Smriti and Shruti as documented from ages is simply a consolidation of several fiction writers through ages as Churchill thought or like that British guy McCauly in 1835 demeaned; and that the Indian people have been living in some fictitious make believe world of their own which has absolutely no relation to the grand reality?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aravind

Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
1,158
1,245
Badacow7
The point being? this is a fable, this is not history. Not other than for the cow-belt.
First, that list of kings means nothing. The Mahabharata was written around a core section a fraction of its current volume (about one fifth). It is plain silly to take the accretions of subsequent times and present them as knowledge of the entire territory of India. Second, the latest revisions of the Mahabharata may have been as late as 400 AD; using the present text as any kind of historical evidence is plain barmy.



No, the education type does not mean that our scriptures are wrong. It is a study of history that clearly separates fable from fact.



There is a process whereby the Catholic Church takes evidence of apparent miracles that have occurred due to a candidate for canonisation possessing the right divine grace. Only the superstitious and religion laden believe in this nonsense. How this is relevant to a discussion on history is difficult to fathom.



Complete fiction. Nothing of the sort is scientifically possible. This is the Christians and the Jews at their gullible best. At this level, they compare well with Hindu idiots.



Like any other hedge scholar, you don't seem to know what immaculate conception refers to. Look it up before citing it.



Only an idiot would claim that anyone can rise from the dead. Are you one of them?



Actually you are barking up the wrong tree. I am not enthusiastic about evangelism, as I am not, in the first place, a Christian.

As for you, I certainly wouldn't say that you got enlightenment after the Abrahamics came; I would say you have a long way to go for enlightenment. A couple of centuries for you individually, perhaps less for other more fortunate ones.

The intolerant Hindu existed long before Abrahamics came into India. You don't probably know either date, but that's about the extent of your knowledge; sketchy, very sketchy.

You do realise how stupid each succeeding post of yours appears? It gets more and more ludicrous.
Good, that a sniveling weasel like you, saw reason and stopped abusing my female family members, After you found out i was South Indian your Macaulay Dictionary stopped so you went after my family?
Listen Vymanika Shastra by Bharadwaja Maharishi is a reality studied by Verner Von Braun and Thule Society.
Dont you try to shame us dharmics, we wont be guilt tripped by you folks.

Enjoy a memory from your past. ;)
 

Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
1,158
1,245
Badacow7
No, it isn't a fact. There is no evidence that the writers of the Mahabharata knew anything about global geography. Giving reasons or evidence for fundamental things, for instance, for your utterly half-baked ideas about the Quran and its teachings, really will not serve any purpose. I don't see the point of these fundamental discussions. We really need to leave this rubbish behind us and go into the real world.

And, of course, typically for you, we are asked to accept as absolute truth that the blind king existed, that he had to be instructed on geography, and that geography consisting of fanciful objects.
Bharat was calculating distance of sun, when your folks burned Galileo. You now call us Backward, Cow-Belt? I ask you this question , because i studied in a Christian college, did all Regular Chicks, attended all kinds of healing festivals. I read Old testament and King James Bible, Koran many times. Tell me what is a half baked idea about someone called a 'Ghazi' ? why is that title bestowed upon someone, "Read Koran first"did you ever,forget Dharma.
 

Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
1,158
1,245
Badacow7
If you are able to show a useable Indian map that is 300 years old, that would be an achievement.
If you were able to prove Gog,Magog and the Magi visited a boy in a stable, that would be an achievement. How exactly was December 25, Birth day of Jesus of Nazareth?
 

Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
866
944
Ban galore
@Aashish
@nair
@Hellfire

Are you seriously trying to rebuild Older Forum, which was an attempt to rebuild PDF, with material as unpromising as this?

Think, guys, think.

And Merry Christmas from an Evangelist Bonglodeshi, who personally saw the Red Sea part.
Mr bonobashi it takes two hands to clap. Perhaps you could go back to last few posts of yours and check how much venom and filth you have typed. When outnumbered and ran out of logic startedplaying victim cards ? You have been using many terms which are a strict no under forum rules. I stopped short of reporting many if your posts to admins.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Yes,

1. How would you comprehend the adherence Indian people from vast times of past, the discourse of immense knowledge in ....

2. Do you think this whole ocean of Indian Smriti and Shruti as documented from ages is simply a consolidation of several fiction writers through ages as Churchill thought or like that British guy McCauly in 1835 demeaned; and that the Indian people have been living in some fictitious make believe world of their own which has absolutely no relation to the grand reality?
No. Much of it may be fact; I am not going through it item by item. But what did we do with it? Nothing.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Good, that a sniveling weasel like you, saw reason and stopped abusing my female family members, After you found out i was South Indian your Macaulay Dictionary stopped so you went after my family?
Listen Vymanika Shastra by Bharadwaja Maharishi is a reality studied by Verner Von Braun and Thule Society.
Dont you try to shame us dharmics, we wont be guilt tripped by you folks.

Enjoy a memory from your past. ;)
LOL.

You actually think that von Braun sent up rockets based on Vymanika Shastra? Nothing more needs to be said. You stand fully exposed by yourself.

And don't keep talking about your female family members. Go through your own family tree, and you will see that not a single female is mentioned on it. Only the males. Don't divert attention and strive for victimhood.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
You should be the last one passing your Snide comments on Hindus and my female Family members, Now you are crying Victim? Seriously? and complaining?
On the ignorant and superstitious, certainly, whether they are Hindu - or Muslim, or Christian. Your female family members? If you don't know how to read English, not my problem. Ask for a translator. :D
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Bharat was calculating distance of sun, when your folks burned Galileo. You now call us Backward, Cow-Belt? I ask you this question , because i studied in a Christian college, did all Regular Chicks, attended all kinds of healing festivals. I read Old testament and King James Bible, Koran many times. Tell me what is a half baked idea about someone called a 'Ghazi' ? why is that title bestowed upon someone, "Read Koran first"did you ever,forget Dharma.
It still remains pertinent. You have studied everything and learnt nothing. Someone who says out loud that the Vymanik Shastra has any practical value desperately needs re-education. As for Ghazi, if you knew the origin of the word, a participant in a Ghazwa, you wouldn't be talking rubbish. Look it up. You might learn something.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
If you were able to prove Gog,Magog and the Magi visited a boy in a stable, that would be an achievement. How exactly was December 25, Birth day of Jesus of Nazareth?
I don't think that they did. I think it's a fable, like all fables for the credulous. Wishing someone Merry Xmas doesn't involve believing the fairy tales linked with it. Unlike your involvement, where every detail is swallowed up whole.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Mr bonobashi it takes two hands to clap. Perhaps you could go back to last few posts of yours and check how much venom and filth you have typed. When outnumbered and ran out of logic startedplaying victim cards ? You have been using many terms which are a strict no under forum rules. I stopped short of reporting many if your posts to admins.
Why did you stop short? And if you did, why are you bragging about it now? To demonstrate your tolerance?

It isn't your tolerance in question here, it's your credulity. Figure out the difference.