vstol Jockey

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Nobody had a clue as to what was happening. He was able to give an approximation of the number of attackers and weapons he saw. That was something better than nothing. The pertinent point was, MARCOS were already getting into position and were told to stand down. We had specialized troops in the city readily available, but they were ordered to stand down.

No one has ever asked the question why, of those who were in power that time.

Forget that, if the air arm was so vital as Chidambaram is saying, what did he do for the next 7 years?
Infact, when CS of Maharastra asked IN for help, IN responded with MARCOS deployment and as they started moving in. Suddenly the order came that NSG is being dispatched from Delhi and MARCOS should stand down. MARCOS had already confined these guys to a small area in the hotel and could have pinned them down there but the stand down resulted in these guys moving freely to engage in killings and mayhem.
Other very interesting news which came out much later was that the entire security set up in Home Ministry was on a tour in Pakistan and they were taken to Murree resorts for couple days just a day prior to these attacks happened. Murree did not have Cell phone connectivity. I have always maintained that 26/11 was planned by someone in India and executed from Pak soil.
 
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suryakiran

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@Hellfire @vstol Jockey
You really want to know, what I think?

It was a decision taken to capture intelligence inputs. A very rare scenario, where we had details of sim bought, triangulated to a confined area and ability to track down where the calls were being made to.

Hitherto, we could listen to calls and nail with precision an ongoing terrorist attack in a major city and use the same to nail the Pakistani asses like a crucifixion parade. I think, I would have done the same. I understand, that lives were lost and that is deplorable. But, if I had an opportunity to do the above, I would have done the same. Bought more time, got more evidence and intelligence.

Now, I know am sounding like a monster. So there.
 
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vstol Jockey

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@Hellfire @vstol Jockey
You really want to know, what I think?

It was a decision taken to capture intelligence inputs. A very rare scenario, where we had details of sim bought, triangulated to a confined area and ability to track down where the calls were being made to.

Hitherto, we could listen to calls and nail with precision an ongoing terrorist attack in a major city and use the same to nail the *censored* asses like a crucifixion parade. I think, I would have done the same. I understand, that lives were lost and that is deplorable. But, if I had an opportunity to do the above, I would have done the same. Bought more time, got more evidence and intelligence.

Now, I know am sounding like a monster. So there.
Indian Navy and Indian CG were given co-ordinates of the the mother ship which brought these guys to Indian waters where they took over Kuber fishing boat. But someone changed the co-ordinates and when IN+ICG plotted them, they found them to be on land. You don't have ships sailing on land. And it all happened from the Home Ministry. Our assets on ground in Pakistan were very accurate in their info but someone within the govt was withholding the info and distorting it. Just go thru the timeline of so called Saffron Terror narrative and picking up of Col Purohit. You see a better picture.
Those sims were given to intercept calls of Kashmiri militants and not of these mumbai attackers.
 

_Anonymous_

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but someone within the govt was withholding the info and distorting it. Just go thru the timeline of so called Saffron Terror narrative and picking up of Col Purohit. You see a better picture.
Those sims were given to intercept calls of Kashmiri militants and not of these mumbai attackers.
Can you elaborate on this? & the Purohit angle apart from the SIMS.
 
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vstol Jockey

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Can you elaborate on this? & the Purohit angle apart from the SIMS.
Good about three months prior to these attacks, GOI had the info that some people are being trained to attack some coastal city thru sea route. But no alert was issued to either IN or ICG. One of the main finance network of these terrorists in India was the fake note racket run by ISI from Bangladesh and Purohit had penetrated this network. He found a very senior Samajwadi Party Neta directly involved in this. This neta is very well known and was also very close to NCP & Congress. The financing of the modules which did recce for this strike was done thru this network of fake notes from BD. Purohit had reached very close to uncovering this planning for 26/11 when he was picked up.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Nobody had a clue as to what was happening. He was able to give an approximation of the number of attackers and weapons he saw. That was something better than nothing. The pertinent point was, MARCOS were already getting into position and were told to stand down. We had specialized troops in the city readily available, but they were ordered to stand down.

No one has ever asked the question why, of those who were in power that time.

Forget that, if the air arm was so vital as Chidambaram is saying, what did he do for the next 7 years?

Infact, when CS of Maharastra asked IN for help, IN responded with MARCOS deployment and as they started moving in. Suddenly the order came that NSG is being dispatched from Delhi and MARCOS should stand down. MARCOS had already confined these guys to a small area in the hotel and could have pinned them down there but the stand down resulted in these guys moving freely to engage in killings and mayhem.
Other very interesting news which came out much later was that the entire security set up in Home Ministry was on a tour in Pakistan and they were taken to Murree resorts for couple days just a day prior to these attacks happened. Murree did not have Cell phone connectivity. I have always maintained that 26/11 was planned by someone in India and executed from Pak soil.

Wasn't the reason that the MARCOS were not trained enough to deal with hostage rescues of the scale in Mumbai?
 

vstol Jockey

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Wasn't the reason that the MARCOS were not trained enough to deal with hostage rescues of the scale in Mumbai?
MARCOS are trained for all such rescue ops also but their operating philosophy is different from that of NSG so when NSG was given the overall control of ops, MARCOS were withdrawn.
 

Milspec

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No one has ever asked the question why, of those who were in power that time.

Forget that, if the air arm was so vital as Chidambaram is saying, what did he do for the next 7 years?
Bent over.
 

Milspec

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This is when one feel we should have "Deep state".....
Shallow would be suffice for now, given that there is race at the top who would sing duets with the Pakistani leadership every chance they get.
 
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hellbent

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Dec 4, 2017
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The main reason why TSD was shut down is because it had started closing in to the cross border financing of certain politicians .

The main conduit is bollywood , next time remember every RS 500 you spend on a bollywood movie around RS 50 gets to the terrorist kitty . May be more.

A eco system has been propped up which cannot be eliminated in entirety because it will also take down the institution's on which we Indians espose our faith.
 

Ashutosh

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Nov 30, 2017
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LOL

51 SAG (for anti-terror/hostage rescue) and 52 SAG (anti-hijacking/hostage rescue) are 100% armed forces. And MARCOS are trained for similar intervention since 1987 in their dedicated facilities both on ships and off them. You think that could be the reason?

The reason was, the attack had inside support from some politician(s?)/babu, next they would carry out a purge in the name of national security.

Kasab was not hanged for a reason, and when he was hanged, he was for a reason. That he was captured alive was never supposed to happen.
 

hellbent

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Dec 4, 2017
651
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Not relevant to the topic

but can some of the guys here confirm the alleged rumours that component level hardware had being smuggled out of indian defence companies to Pakistani establishment in the past ? Maybe till date.

Interestingly Os/car from peedf had himself slipped it out long ago ? And then the post had been changed soon after.
 

CountryFirst

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Dec 11, 2017
462
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Bharat
The less said the better. It is simply amazing to see a vehement anti-Muslim narrative being mainstreamed ... the number of moles and their religious denomination will be a serious eye opener.

That is why, I remain anti-religious and anti-caste based posts. In the name of 'enlightment', divisions are being created, oft by ill informed 'patriots' who are too stupid to see the long term ramifications of their 'zeal'!

If you noticed, there was a thrust elsewhere on Sikh soldiers, their valour etc ... what do you think that was intended to achieve? Even in my circle of armed forces, senior officers felt offended when I asked them to not forward on whatsapp, specific write ups emanating from the Pakistani side on celebrating Sikh soldiers' achievements in 1971 war and earlier. Instead, to always emphasize the greatness of Indian Army.

The classical psy ops works on principle of building a narrative with which a reader/target audience, is able to identify. Then, you champion that narrative, and then only do you work to create a difference, subtly and very slowly. Now you see Kartarpur-Khalistan being played out.

In a nation such as ours, where there is always an emphasis on diversity and never on cohesiveness, this technique yields rich dividends.

Let us stake an example of a caste based narrative. Even the simple discussion on how a system developed to promote progression in all the segments of societies by enabling preservation of verbalized lessons in form of perpetuation of what modern day would call, 'interns' or 'apprentices' , will still leave a residual feeling of animosity for those who have strong identification with the system. Person like me, is neither aware nor interested in gotra or varna but then, I am amazed that I appear 'ignorant' for others. I digress. So once a subtle feeling of animosity is subconsciously created, how long does it take to exploit an idiot (our national average IQ is a pathetic 82 and education system has nothing to do with it, all society - idiots breeding idiots and teaching idiocy from diaper stage)?

You seem to have fallen into the trap of Statesmen, Intellectual bracket which is more dangerous preventing you from coming to terms with reality. That you say it is an anti-muslim narrative when it is a protectionist and conservative narrative shows that you do have misjudgement.

About caste and varna, the negativity is only because we have let a pseudo intellectual leftist (traitors) class who just repeat the manufactured narrative set by foreign anti-Bharat elements. Atleast the so called right wing bodies (RSS) you accuse of blatantly is doing something to solve and set the narrative straight, such as preserving the original oral knowledge, explaining the original quality based varna system, fighting caste exploitation, etc through awareness raising.

About Indians being 82 IQ (you seem to have no problem quoting western media which has been proved time and again to show the country in a bad light, despite your talk of not promoting misinformation) or is it because the media is lying to the face and the people are too naive they have not been held account. I see that as the innocence and straightforwardness of the countrymen and something that is a good indicator of society. But it does pose a national threat because we our security apparatus has been meak and weak and never held these media bodies accountable and failed the peopple. SO I guess the blame the security apparatus and former govts for their failures rather than blaming the people.

Muslims in the country have *censored* identites, people who celebrate a lack of native identity are bound to become a problem. It is not about a narrative being mainstreamed, but it is a refelection of the ground realities that was suppressed for long. Isn't it that Indira Gandhi hesitated to attack west Pakistan in 1971 (one of the reasons) because she feared of internal muslim backlash in votes? Why are you always coming of as biased, but you might think you are not, not knowlingly maybe, but you do have this distaint for posting things that goes against common sense under the pretext of whisky drinking intellectuals who are more interested in giving lectures than doing anything on the ground.
 
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vstol Jockey

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Kasab's capture is what led to Pakistan being where it is today. It wouldn't have happened otherwise.
The people who planned this ops from Delhi never ever imagined that anyone of the attackers will be caught alive. Most likely the MARCOS were asked to stand down as they too carry gas grenades to completely choke a room and flush out bad guys by making them unconscious and they could have captured these guys alive.
 
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hellbent

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
651
1,404
The less said the better. It is simply amazing to see a vehement anti-Muslim narrative being mainstreamed ... the number of moles and their religious denomination will be a serious eye opener.

That is why, I remain anti-religious and anti-caste based posts. In the name of 'enlightment', divisions are being created, oft by ill informed 'patriots' who are too stupid to see the long term ramifications of their 'zeal'!

If you noticed, there was a thrust elsewhere on Sikh soldiers, their valour etc ... what do you think that was intended to achieve? Even in my circle of armed forces, senior officers felt offended when I asked them to not forward on whatsapp, specific write ups emanating from the Pakistani side on celebrating Sikh soldiers' achievements in 1971 war and earlier. Instead, to always emphasize the greatness of Indian Army.

The classical psy ops works on principle of building a narrative with which a reader/target audience, is able to identify. Then, you champion that narrative, and then only do you work to create a difference, subtly and very slowly. Now you see Kartarpur-Khalistan being played out.

In a nation such as ours, where there is always an emphasis on diversity and never on cohesiveness, this technique yields rich dividends.

Let us stake an example of a caste based narrative. Even the simple discussion on how a system developed to promote progression in all the segments of societies by enabling preservation of verbalized lessons in form of perpetuation of what modern day would call, 'interns' or 'apprentices' , will still leave a residual feeling of animosity for those who have strong identification with the system. Person like me, is neither aware nor interested in gotra or varna but then, I am amazed that I appear 'ignorant' for others. I digress. So once a subtle feeling of animosity is subconsciously created, how long does it take to exploit an idiot (our national average IQ is a pathetic 82 and education system has nothing to do with it, all society - idiots breeding idiots and teaching idiocy from diaper stage)?

I don't support any political parties espousing religious causes , because for me that in itself is a big contradiction and a hanging sword.
Same as a group of people who resort to violence and frenzy over a long period of time will be expected to suddenly stop after fulfillment of their goals, habits formed over time don't disappeared suddenly , rather they seek new preys , if none are found , they turn on their own over small or imagined differences.

Regarding the religious denomination of the moles , it ain't suprising , considering the population of the said denomination. Same phenomenon in Pak...... or elsewhere.

The rot is beyond religion , religion is the playground of puppets and puppeteers. Religion only manifests the rot ie greed , lust etc which is common denominator in all nationalities.

Old story, maybe you know about it.

About a Pak..... diplomat who came under watch by IB, he used to have ........ with the wife of a army officer now and then and that women eventually hooked him up with her father in law who was a general (ex or serving I can't recall). After that what happened I don't know and which party was getting played , also I don't know.

Let's take the worse case scenario , which seems more plausible

So It will be stupid to assume both the Ind... men were not aware of the shiit going on.

So how would you define the whole thing ?

See it as depravity ? Or religious angle ? Or ....etc etc

we humans are victims of our own cognitive traps.

So what you said maybe factually correct, but not the complete truth because religion , ethnicity , race etc etc is just a means to an end either on a individual level or on a large scale and hence more visible ( therefore easier to blame sometimes for ulterior motives ) . While the individuals primary faults like lust , greed etc which led to the problems itself in the first place don't get the visibility / blame.

Humans either on a individual level or on a collective level want to dominate/prevail. There is no escaping this , what matters is the cost involved , is it one time or recurring .

the biggest irony is your main concern ( and others ) religion is not even a indian phenomenon . It is something imposed on us and then brainwashed into us.

there is no word for religion in India. And another irony Sanatan dharma is not a religion. It's a way of life .

another irony , if Islam and Christianity had not been part of modern India , Santan dharma ( Hinduism for some ) would have imploded from within in the absence of the above threats and infighting. See it in the context of survival of the fittest and the pressing need to evolve in the presence of threats or go extinct.

in the end all I wrote is my personal opinion , I am nobody and therefore irrelevant.
dont know why I even wrote it and did it even make sense lol
 
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CountryFirst

Active member
Dec 11, 2017
462
182
Bharat
The people who planned this ops from Delhi never ever imagined that anyone of the attackers will be caught alive. Most likely the MARCOS were asked to stand down as they too carry gas grenades to completely choke a room and flush out bad guys by making them unconscious and they could have captured these guys alive.

Why are these people not being tried yet!! When will be do it. Please tell me we will try these people one day and put them the whole congress upper layers in jail.
 

vstol Jockey

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Dec 1, 2017
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New Delhi
Why are these people not being tried yet!! When will be do it. Please tell me we will try these people one day and put them the whole congress upper layers in jail.
How can you prove anything against them? Hafeez is in Pakistan and ISI is an organisation which you can't bring to India. Even Hafeez will not know who actually ordered him to do it.