Indian Naval Aviation : Updates and Discussions

Arvind

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What is the future for NLCA? Isn't Navy not interested in it?

Seems may end up in a TD only.
 

_Anonymous_

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What is the future for NLCA? Isn't Navy not interested in it?

Seems may end up in a TD only.
In all likelihood yes. You can see this as preparations going ahead with the AMCA.

But then there's the NLCA - Mk 2 . Is it similar to the MWF / LCA Mk2 in its dimensions, power thrust MTOW,weapons payload, hardpoints, flight radius, ferry range, etc ? @randomradio
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
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In all likelihood yes. You can see this as preparations going ahead with the AMCA.

But then there's the NLCA - Mk 2 . Is it similar to the MWF / LCA Mk2 in its dimensions, power thrust MTOW,weapons payload, hardpoints, flight radius, ferry range, etc ? @randomradio

IMO Navy is fully justified not settling with anything less than best of the world stuff because its not just the aircraft, they have to build a whole carrier battle group around it. Considering the huge cost that goes into it, no compromise with aircraft make full sense.
 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
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This is huge for Indian aviation. NLCA has a great chance to become a trainer for Naval pilots. I think ADA and Navy has two options to go about it. Instead of developing NLCA Mk2, they can go for AMCA Naval prototype directly. In this way when MK2 for Air force gets ready you could have an Naval prototype for AMCA ready from which an air variant can be developed.
This saves time as well.

Anantha Krishnan M 🇮🇳 (@writetake) Tweeted:
The landing speed of #NLCA NP-1 was at 132 knots and the sink rate at 4.4 m/s while the arrester hook load was about 37 tonnes.

UPDATED copy: First arrested landing of Naval LCA successful | Video

@akananth Anantha Krishnan M on Twitter ( )

Sink rate is too low. It needs atleast 5.5m per second to be qualified for carrier trials. But when fully certified it needs a sink rate of 7.3m/s. Perhaps they will do more test to qualify it further.
 
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_Anonymous_

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This is huge for Indian aviation. NLCA has a great chance to become a trainer for Naval pilots. I think ADA and Navy has two options to go about it. Instead of developing NLCA Mk2, they can go for AMCA Naval prototype directly. In this way when MK2 for Air force gets ready you could have an Naval prototype for AMCA ready from which an air variant can be developed.
This saves time as well.

PKS has been arguing for it for years. Apparently ADA is having none of it. They're going ahead with development of the IAF variant first. Last year, there was some chatter about whether ADA would develop a Naval variant too. If memory served me right, IN & ADA were in talks. Apparently, the Naval version will follow the IAF version or both will be developed concurrently. I'm not sure what's the sequence of events regarding this .

Sink rate is too low. It needs atleast 5.5m per second to be qualified for carrier trials. But when fully certified it needs a sink rate of 7.3m/s. Perhaps they will do more test to qualify it further.
In all fairness, this was only the first trial. The goals would definitely be modest. The first priority would be to secure more funding from the MoD for the NLCA programme which is what this test seems to be all about before moving on to more stringent tests and finally on board the aircraft carrier so as to fully qualify the NLCA programme .
 
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Vicky

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PKS has been arguing for it for years. Apparently ADA is having none of it. They're going ahead with development of the IAF variant first. Last year, there was some chatter about whether ADA would develop a Naval variant too. If memory served me right, IN & ADA were in talks. Apparently, the Naval version will follow the IAF version or both will be developed concurrently. I'm not sure what's the sequence of events regarding this .


In all fairness, this was only the first trial. The goals would definitely be modest. The first priority would be to secure more funding from the MoD for the NLCA programme which is what this test seems to be all about before moving on to more stringent tests and finally on board the aircraft carrier so as to fully qualify the NLCA programme .

Mk2 I understand the need to go for AF version first. But AMCA. Cos India hasnt decided the next carrier yet. It might take 10-15 years for the next carrier to come in. If Navy decides to go for AMCA it will be a great, and they can bypass Naval Tejas altogether. I think Navy should order some 10-15 Mig 29k for INS Vikrant. Will make a total of 60 fighters for 2 carriers for now with spares and training. Should drop the 57 MMRCA and put that money into Naval AMCA. By the time AF Tejas Mk2 is ready, Naval AMCA should be in prototype testing or TD phase, making it easier for AF to adopt.

India should have brought the design for Mig29K long back. Its a missed chance.
 

Ashwin

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70611119_2489933687767731_2281353470764122112_o.jpg
 

Ashwin

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Tejas: thoughts on an unusual wing

Tejas
The pictures shown earlier reveal that in making its recent arrested landing, Tejas was using an upward deflected LEVCON. This innovation makes a lot of sense for Tejas, because, as a pure delta with no balancing tail or canard surface, a conventional slat-and-flap high lift system cannot be used.

Moreover, the large upward deflection of the LEVCON will force the development of the leading-edge vortices, and the associated increase in lift, to occur at low incidence, allowing the view over the nose of the aircraft to be maintained for the approach to landing. Because the additional lift is developed over the whole length of the wing, it is likely that the pitching moment generated is less than would have been seen with a conventional system, and, on the approach, might even require a small droop of the trailing edge surfaces, which would also increase lift.
The only photographs I have seen of Tejas with LEVCON deployed are for the naval variant. The ski jump trials were conducted with the LEVCON more or less in line with the wing, increasing lift slightly, but with little effect on drag, whereas the recent arrested landing with upward deployed LEVCON would have generated significant lift and drag.
Subsequent development of the aircraft may see LEVCON integrated into the control system to improve manoeuvre capability for both variants, but whether this will be implemented remains to be seen.



f4d_skyrays_vmfaw-114_uss_fd_roosevelt_1959.jpg

Tejas is indeed an interesting little aircraft, and, in my view, is the first carrier aircraft to use a pure delta planform. I recognise that some might disagree with this, pointing to the Douglas F4D Skyray as having this distinction. In the Skyray, however, the landing approach speed problem was resolved using slats on the outboard wing, and large triangular trimming tail surfaces, forming the junction between the wing trailing edge and the fuselage, to cope with the slat-induced pitching moment. The Skyray was aerodynamically, in effect, a tailed-delta rather than pure delta.
 
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randomradio

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Tejas: thoughts on an unusual wing

Tejas
The pictures shown earlier reveal that in making its recent arrested landing, Tejas was using an upward deflected LEVCON. This innovation makes a lot of sense for Tejas, because, as a pure delta with no balancing tail or canard surface, a conventional slat-and-flap high lift system cannot be used.

Moreover, the large upward deflection of the LEVCON will force the development of the leading-edge vortices, and the associated increase in lift, to occur at low incidence, allowing the view over the nose of the aircraft to be maintained for the approach to landing. Because the additional lift is developed over the whole length of the wing, it is likely that the pitching moment generated is less than would have been seen with a conventional system, and, on the approach, might even require a small droop of the trailing edge surfaces, which would also increase lift.
The only photographs I have seen of Tejas with LEVCON deployed are for the naval variant. The ski jump trials were conducted with the LEVCON more or less in line with the wing, increasing lift slightly, but with little effect on drag, whereas the recent arrested landing with upward deployed LEVCON would have generated significant lift and drag.
Subsequent development of the aircraft may see LEVCON integrated into the control system to improve manoeuvre capability for both variants, but whether this will be implemented remains to be seen.



f4d_skyrays_vmfaw-114_uss_fd_roosevelt_1959.jpg

Tejas is indeed an interesting little aircraft, and, in my view, is the first carrier aircraft to use a pure delta planform. I recognise that some might disagree with this, pointing to the Douglas F4D Skyray as having this distinction. In the Skyray, however, the landing approach speed problem was resolved using slats on the outboard wing, and large triangular trimming tail surfaces, forming the junction between the wing trailing edge and the fuselage, to cope with the slat-induced pitching moment. The Skyray was aerodynamically, in effect, a tailed-delta rather than pure delta.

The "LCA" that will actually become operational on a carrier will also be a tailed delta.
 

_Anonymous_

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Gautam

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Made in India LCA for Indian Navy gets ready for more trials

By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | Published: November 21, 2019 11:45:23 AM

This has been a major success for all the agencies including the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and the Indian Navy which has been part of all these trials.

main-2.jpg

Since 2012, when the first LCA (Navy) took off two prototypes (NP 1 & 2) which have been built by the state-owned HAL are already under flight testing. (Photo credit: HAL)

After successfully carrying out its first-ever night-time ‘arrested’ landing at Shore Based Test Facility INS Hansa, Goa, the naval version of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft is getting ready for the Deck Landing trial soon. This has been a major success for all the agencies including the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and the Indian Navy which has been part of all these trials.

Since 2012, when the first LCA (Navy) took off two prototypes (NP 1 & 2) which have been built by the state-owned HAL are already under flight testing. After the end of successful tests, the way was paved for the indigenous aircraft to undertake Aircraft Carrier landing demonstration on board the Indian Naval Aircraft Carrier, INS Vikramaditya soon.

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(Photo credit: HAL)

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(Photo credit: HAL)

Team LCA with scientists and designers from DRDO, ADA and Indian Navy has been working behind the scenes in not only conceptualising the project but also in the experiments related to the complex software modes which are involved in this. Besides the structural expansion in the LCA Naval version, several experiments with multiple software options and hardware configurations have been carried out. These are related to avionics tools, display symbols to help the pilots and aerodynamic surfaces.

In September this year, the naval version of the aircraft had achieved short landing with arrestor wires on the SBTF and joined a select group of countries including the US, Russia, the UK, and France which have the capability to design such an aircraft which lands on a carrier.

What is Arrested Landings ?

It is an essential part of aircraft carrier flight operations and helps with high-strength wires which has a hook used in decelerating the aircraft and stop it on an aircraft carrier with a limited space of 100 meters unlike the 1 Km runway for land-based aircraft.

2-641.jpg

(Photo credit: HAL)

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(Photo credit: HAL)

For the arrested landing there has to be a close coordination with crew on the flight deck combined with the pilot’s skill, as the speed gets reduced considerably from 250 kmph to just zero in just a few seconds.

And in the night when there is no light the landing becomes more difficult.

Made in India LCA for Indian Navy gets ready for more trials