Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

TARGET

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SOSUS Network from Resonant news

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Ashwin

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Yeah, they are just operationalizing optical fiber to the island but they already installed sonar along the entire Andaman sea (Even touching Indonesia). That too without any other close neighbors protesting. When these kinds of installations are directly against their sovereignty and it's inside their EEZ for god sake. And PLAN chooses to ignore these developments in the international waters?

Who produced this so-called SOSUS at such a scale ? We know suppliers of our most secretive arihant project. Is this more secretive than that? It is one thing to say we are developing and testing seabed sonars and another to give a map of kilometers of deployed one. They are yet to operationalize a basic towed array sonar for comparison.
 

_Anonymous_

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Yeah, they are just operationalizing optical fiber to the island but they already installed sonar along the entire Andaman sea (Even touching Indonesia). That too without any other close neighbors protesting. When these kinds of installations are directly against their sovereignty and it's inside their EEZ for god sake. And PLAN chooses to ignore these developments in the international waters?

Who produced this so-called SOSUS at such a scale ? We know suppliers of our most secretive arihant project. Is this more secretive than that? It is one thing to say we are developing and testing seabed sonars and another to give a map of kilometers of deployed one. They are yet to operationalize a basic towed array sonar for comparison.
You think there's going to be an official announcement that SOSUS has been deployed with some sort of an online virtual inauguration program? Moreover, India's own deployment of such underwater sensors would be in it's littoral areas or the EEZ & wouldn't be part of the US Japan India trilateral or the quad's responsibility. @hellbent
 

Ashwin

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You think there's going to be an official announcement that SOSUS has been deployed with some sort of an online virtual inauguration program? Moreover, India's own deployment of such underwater sensors would be in it's littoral areas or the EEZ & wouldn't be part of the US Japan India trilateral or the quad's responsibility. @hellbent
Did i ask for inauguration date? I was refering to map posted above.

Quad as a military instrument is very new. They only just started discussing on inteligance shareing and co ordination. It's far from the joint deplyment of anything. These navies are yet to undertake a joint excercise with any coordianted ops other than PASSEX,SAR, and ASW (its still not in between navies). There is no way these countries move fast and breach other country's sovereign waters/EEZ and deploy survilance equpments.
 

_Anonymous_

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Did i ask for inauguration date? I was refering to map posted above.

Quad as a military instrument is very new. They only just started discussing on inteligance shareing and co ordination. It's far from the joint deplyment of anything. These navies are yet to undertake a joint excercise with any coordianted ops other than PASSEX,SAR, and ASW (its still not in between navies). There is no way these countries move fast and breach other country's sovereign waters/EEZ and deploy survilance equpments.
Sosus or Fish hook network has already been deployed by Japan US all the way from the Sea of Japan to the Straits of Malacca. Look up your recently discovered favourite PKS on Trishul. He came up with a neatly detailed write up on it a few years ago arguing why India should be & eventually will be part of this network.
 

hellbent

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Indian uderseas network is an independent network contrary to assertion that it is linked to others and it is localised in areas of interest and expanded over a period of time. It is total misinformation being spread that it is linked to SOSUS. india recieves 'selected' data from SOSUS and that is it .

Frankly speaking I have no idea of their location.

I know of one system which was place right in the doorsteps of the ' party ' 😛 and later recovered after it approached end of service life .

I can name the company which makes these seabed arrays or rather integrates them.

Nobody will publicize all these

The effectiveness of these systems lies in their annonimity , especially their location is kept secret if possible

And unrelated let me tell you another thing india does submarine cable tapping ( though not in th deep seas afaik )

@_Anonymous_
 
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Ashwin

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Is the Rudra M-1 and NGARM the same missile?

Screenshot_2020-10-09 English_Book Final pmd - 16_Defence_5 pdf.png


NGARM was approved on Dec 2012

The name Rudra M-2/3 only came up recently.

EjnaH70XsAM47-j


I would assume all missiles under 'Rudra' share similar airframe. Or are they calling NGARM as Rudra M1 now? @hellbent @Gautam
 
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Gautam

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Is the Rudra M-1 and NGARM the same missile?

View attachment 18194

NGARM was approved on Dec 2012

The name Rudra M-2/3 only came up recently.

EjnaH70XsAM47-j


I would assume all missiles under 'Rudra' share similar airframe. Or are they calling NGARM as Rudra M1 now? @hellbent @Gautam

Excellent question, I have no clue. If there is a Rudra M-2/3 there should be a M-1 too right ? That's just natural progression, who names the first missile of series as "2" ?

Is Rudram the same as Rudra M-1 ? Probably.
Are the Rudram the same as NGARM ? Looks like it. The NGARM could be the project name, where as the "Rudram" would be name given by the service i.e IAF. We have similar examples with other projects too where there is a project name & a service name. For example: LCA/Tejas, ALH/Dhruv, P-15A/Kolkata class, P-15B/Vizag class, P-17A/Niligiri class, ATV/Arihant class etc etc.

DRDO is very good at confusing people. Look at the near constant "Prithvi missile" tests. Prithvi missile is like the guy who gives proxy attendance for his friends. As far as the naming goes whether they confuse people intentionally or is this a by-product of our bureaucracy is not known.
 

Ashwin

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Excellent question, I have no clue. If there is a Rudra M-2/3 there should be a M-1 too right ? That's just natural progression, who names the first missile of series as "2" ?

Is Rudram the same as Rudra M-1 ? Probably.
Are the Rudram the same as NGARM ? Looks like it. The NGARM could be the project name, where as the "Rudram" would be name given by the service i.e IAF. We have similar examples with other projects too where there is a project name & a service name. For example: LCA/Tejas, ALH/Dhruv, P-15A/Kolkata class, P-15B/Vizag class, P-17A/Niligiri class, ATV/Arihant class etc etc.

DRDO is very good at confusing people. Look at the near constant "Prithvi missile" tests. Prithvi missile is like the guy who gives proxy attendance for his friends. As far as the naming goes whether they confuse people intentionally or is this a by-product of our bureaucracy is not known.
I don't remember the precedence of DRDO changing the name of the project in between for a sanctioned project. All the above-listed products are christened by the services. None are pure DRDO projects.

Current Prithvi tests are by Strategic Force Command (SFC). Its by the user to train or validate themselves under various conditions.
 

Gautam

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I don't remember the precedence of DRDO changing the name of the project in between for a sanctioned project. All the above-listed products are christened by the services. None are pure DRDO projects.

The NGARM is under user trials isn't it ? What are the chances the user named it ?

Current Prithvi tests are by Strategic Force Command (SFC). Its by the user to train or validate themselves under various conditions.

Sure, some of the test are for that purpose. I doubt all of them are. How many photos do you see from these Prithvi tests ? Barely 1 or 2 a year. Last few years we have seen at least half a dozen Prithvis fired off every year. Its a pretty good cover for other missile.
 

Ashwin

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The NGARM is under user trials isn't it ? What are the chances the user named it ?
Possible.

Sure, some of the test are for that purpose. I doubt all of them are. How many photos do you see from these Prithvi tests ? Barely 1 or 2 a year. Last few years we have seen at least half a dozen Prithvis fired off every year. Its a pretty good cover for other missile.
There is no need to cover-up calling it prithvi. Before they used to publically acknowledge failed tests. (Now some journalists claims its fail). How many NOTAMs passed without any PR? Some of them could be failed or unknown tests.
 

Gautam

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There is no need to cover-up calling it prithvi. Before they used to publically acknowledge failed tests. (Now some journalists claims its fail).
Yes. There is nothing secretive about the Prithvi anymore. Yet we rarely get any photos. But for new & potentially game changing weapons like SMART there ae video and photo releases.
How many NOTAMs passed without any PR? Some of them could be failed or unknown tests.
Possible. But the number of without PR Prithvi launches far outnumbers the without PR NOTAMs. Some missed NOTAMs get re-issued, like the one for the NGARM test today.
 

Ashwin

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So the pictures have the conclusive answer.

DRDO naming conventions are messed up.

It's like they are following russian missile nomenclature.


Yes. There is nothing secretive about the Prithvi anymore. Yet we rarely get any photos. But for new & potentially game changing weapons like SMART there ae video and photo releases.

Possible. But the number of without PR Prithvi launches far outnumbers the without PR NOTAMs. Some missed NOTAMs get re-issued, like the one for the NGARM test today.
Everything related to SFC is the most secretive in india.
 

Gautam

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It's like they are following russian missile nomenclature.
Don't the Russians have an alphanumeric system. That's how we end up with names like "3M-54 Kalibr". With the sheer number of munitions we are building we need a similar system if we are to keep track of our own projects.
 
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hellbent

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Dec 4, 2017
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Is the Rudra M-1 and NGARM the same missile?

View attachment 18194

NGARM was approved on Dec 2012

The name Rudra M-2/3 only came up recently.

EjnaH70XsAM47-j


I would assume all missiles under 'Rudra' share similar airframe. Or are they calling NGARM as Rudra M1 now? @hellbent @Gautam

RUDRAM-1 is NGARM , I have said it often , in the other forum atleast since long ( maybe here too , can't recall )

All 3 RUDRAM series missiles are air to surface missiles.

Anyways indications are DRDO is looking to add HOJ capability to its air to air missiles down the line