Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

smestarz

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Nov 30, 2017
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Actung Panzers
And there is a 105 mm ulh howitzer is available with kalyani, mounted on hlHummer. Saudi Arabia has already placed order for few if i am not wrong. It is far better suited weapon of choice than any light tank in mountainous region like ladakh to handle Chinese, good for indirect and direct firing with superior mobility than any variant of tank. Dont know what logic is driving IA to go for a light tank in mountainous region, without even considering this gun.
There are a few things here.
First 105 mm ULH from Kalyani is a good gun and does make an effective weapon when mounted on Hummer. Now the Saudis might be using as fast-moving mobile artillery, that is good against saying not so well armed Houthis or to simply shoot and scoot. this weapon can do very well in say Africa or even South America where Armies are not so well developed.
So, what as per you is the advantage of say 105 + Humvee against PLA light tanks? Weight.. but that is not going to help. usually, artillery guns fire low powered ammo because Field guns do not "kill" by impact velocity but rather by the explosion and the "load" thus the vehicle might not be able to fire high powered anti-tank shell as that would be high velocity. would the gun/vehicle be able to take that power?
Thus in the case of 105 HMV vs 105 PLA, the PLA would have an advantage. But when IA faces the PLA light tank with say T-90, our units have better armour and firepower so we hold a distinct advantage. Further in the terrain of Ladakh, it would not be easy for HMV to manoeuvre as easily as it can do in Saudi where most of the land is flat.
One does not really field Arty vs Arty facing each other. Artys are usually "back end" If an arty can be placed in some tactical position from where it can dominate the field, then yes, but then such positions are held, and so the mobility of HMV would not be required.
Such weapons are usually good against not so well armed opponents or an opponent which is stretched out and thus the mobility of the HMV can be used, but when the opponent is modern and well armed the uses of weapon mounted on HMV cannot be the one actually at the Front to face the enemy armour.
 
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Tatvamasi

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Jan 5, 2018
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India




Two of the longest-serving Artillery weapon systems, the 130mm Self Propelled M-46 Catapult Guns and the 160mm Tampella Mortars were decommissioned today at #MFFR. The ceremony was marked by customary firing of the last salvos.

These are in inventory of the IndianArmy for close to 60 years and the decommissioning would make way for newer equipment with latest technologies.
 
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Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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Two of the longest-serving Artillery weapon systems, the 130mm Self Propelled M-46 Catapult Guns and the 160mm Tampella Mortars were decommissioned today at #MFFR. The ceremony was marked by customary firing of the last salvos.

These are in inventory of the IndianArmy for close to 60 years and the decommissioning would make way for newer equipment with latest technologies.
More k9s?
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Two of the longest-serving Artillery weapon systems, the 130mm Self Propelled M-46 Catapult Guns and the 160mm Tampella Mortars were decommissioned today at #MFFR. The ceremony was marked by customary firing of the last salvos.

These are in inventory of the IndianArmy for close to 60 years and the decommissioning would make way for newer equipment with latest technologies.

Finally they are out of service. Good run. Now we need more K9s.

@Milspec
 

Tatvamasi

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Jan 5, 2018
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India

DRDO will begin trials of Made-in-India towed artillery in June but Army still has ‘concerns’


New Delhi: Confirmatory desert trials of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) along with private firms Bharat Forge and TATA Power SED, will begin in June.
Sources in the ATAGS development programme told ThePrint that after the summer trials this year, orders can be placed in the industry, following which the system will become operational in the armed forces.

They added that the validation trials at high altitude areas, including mobility trials in hilly and mountainous terrain have been completed.

The ATAGS is part of the Army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan, which had been drawn up in 1999. According to this plan, the Army is supposed to have a different kinds of artillery, including the towed system, which is meant to be a 155mm x 52 caliber.

With the global procurement plans for a towed gun faltering despite multiple attempts, the project for ATAGS was rolled out by the DRDO around 2010.

The ATAGS, which is being developed by the DRDO with the two private firms, fired for the first time in a fully integrated model in 2016.

This development came even as the Army has been pursuing a separate process for procurement of towed guns from abroad under the ‘Make In India’ initiative.

The gun that has finally emerged as the lowest bidder for this process was the ATHOS of the Israeli firm Elbit, in 2019.

The deal was for the supply of 400 guns and indigenous production of another 1,180 guns by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), under a full Transfer of Technology (TOT) process.

However, the Army has changed its plans and is now eyeing to only procure 400 of the ATHOS, but the DRDO is objecting even to this and says the ATAGS is better and is the weapon of the future.

A final decision on ATHOS is still pending as reported on 28 May.


Army’s concern and comparison

Defence sources said that the development of ATAGS has been completed and is presently under PSQR (Weapons procurement and qualitative requirements) trials to finalise the final configuration of the gun system.

However, the Army has a “few issues of concern”.

Sources said that the first among these is the aspect of extra weight, which may impact on the operational performance of the gun system in mountainous and high altitude terrain.
The ATAGS is said to weigh around 18 tonnes. In comparison, the ATHOS weigh less than 15 tonnes.

Those advocating for the ATAGS admit that the weight is an issue, but say that other systems like the Dhanush gun can be used in the mountains, besides the lightweight howitzers that were especially procured from the US for the mountains.

“Not all guns have to operate in the same way across all terrains. In tanks, we have the T-90 and T-72 which can operate easily in the mountains and can also be airlifted there. But we also have the Arjun, which cannot operate in the same way it would in desert areas,” a defence expert, who did not wish to be identified, said.

ATAGS programme sources said the self-propelled mobility of this system is high and it is capable of crossing all Indian bridges and terrain.

They also said that the in weight category it is comparable with other comparable gun systems in the world.

Defence sources said that second concern is the “inability of the gun” system to meet the critical performance parameters, especially with regard to rates of fire.

ATAGS programme sources said that the rate of fire includes the burst firing of five rounds in one minute, intense firing of 10 rounds in two-and-a-half minutes and a sustained rate of 60 rounds in sixty minutes.

In comparison, the Elbit Systems claims ATHOS can fire three rounds in 30 seconds, 12 rounds in three minutes, and 42 rounds in sixty minutes.

The third concern expressed is the September 2020 accident during the internal validation trials of the ATAGS in a firing range. The barrel of the gun burst while firing a round.

Incidentally the cost is also a factor. While the ATHOS will cost less than Rs 11 crore per piece, the ATAGS is said to be costing anywhere between Rs 16-18 crore.

One area where the ATAGS outguns other systems is the range. The ATAGS’s range with Extended Range Sub-Bore Boat Tail (ERFB BT) ammunition is 35 km and with ERFB BB (Base Bleed) ammunition is 45 km. The ATAGS has actually fired at a range of 47 KMS in 2017.

It is said that when the ATAGS will finally be ordered, both private firms will get orders, but the lowest bidder would get the largest share – 60 per cent or more.

Both guns – Bharat Forge and TATA – have the same performance parameters and the final contract will be awarded based on the cost cited.

(Edited by Poulomi Banerjee)
 

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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Hopefully a larger order for Dhanush 52 can bring down its cost and will be enough to keep ATHOS at bay. And maybe give time to agencies to refine the ATAGS.
 

Chain Smoker

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Chain Smoker

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It has nothing to do with the lobby, it's an actual urgent requirement. And we most definitely need ATHOS, especially the supply chain behind it. In a long war with China, we will need access to NATO reserves, which can come in through ATHOS.
I don't agree no matter whatever excuse people give I am strictly against the import in this segment.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
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It has nothing to do with the lobby, it's an actual urgent requirement. And we most definitely need ATHOS, especially the supply chain behind it. In a long war with China, we will need access to NATO reserves, which can come in through ATHOS.
If there was any urgency. IA would be expediting ATAGS trials and order a limited production till the gun mature.

This is work of lobbying just like FRCV.