Indian Air Force : Updates & Discussions

randomradio

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@randomradio your thoughts on this how it is comparable to other systems present around especially our adversaries I heard that it is much faster .

There's no way to tell since we don't know enough about the hardware and such. But right now, it's pretty much the most advanced system operational anywhere today. NATO is yet to make an equivalent, they are still using Link 16 and 22, which was made back in the 80s. Russia and China are also yet to move up the chain.

2. What is operative and cooperative system?

Based on the picture, operative means multiple systems working together as a single unit, perhaps dependent on each other, a family of systems. Whereas cooperative systems are those which are completely autonomous, which means they can perform their duties on their own, like an operative system, but have to work together as a team, cooperate, in order to be effective.

It's really an advertisement for "family of systems". So a fighter jet is an operative system. But in the future, the fighter jet will act together with drones and SAMs as a single unit thereby expanding the concept of an operative system. Which means they will make decisions as a single unit, including firing off weapons without any direct contact with the weapons. For example, fighter pilots will be able to use the weapon loads of drones and SAMs no different from their own weapons. It's basically CEC, but across the entire force. And it goes further than that in terms of tactics since there's only one decision maker for multiple systems.

3. How IFF will be performed?

The usual. Send a burst of information out called an interrogation signal, and if there is a response and it matches with the database you have, then it's friendly, otherwise it's a UFO and requires further validation. Using Mode 5/S IFF, we already have hardware that allows identification of targets without having to duplicate the effort in a busy radar environment. It means multiple radars watching the same airspace won't send out IFF individually for the same target, only one radar will send it out and then inform the other radars about it.

There must be ground system which will ride on AFnet just like IACCS am I right.

AFNET is the communication backbone, it's basically the IAF's personal Internet or even intranet. IACCS consists of the hardware and applications that ride AFNET, no different from how this forum rides the Internet.
 

Chain Smoker

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There's no way to tell since we don't know enough about the hardware and such. But right now, it's pretty much the most advanced system operational anywhere today. NATO is yet to make an equivalent, they are still using Link 16 and 22, which was made back in the 80s. Russia and China are also yet to move up the chain.



Based on the picture, operative means multiple systems working together as a single unit, perhaps dependent on each other, a family of systems. Whereas cooperative systems are those which are completely autonomous, which means they can perform their duties on their own, like an operative system, but have to work together as a team, cooperate, in order to be effective.

It's really an advertisement for "family of systems". So a fighter jet is an operative system. But in the future, the fighter jet will act together with drones and SAMs as a single unit thereby expanding the concept of an operative system. Which means they will make decisions as a single unit, including firing off weapons without any direct contact with the weapons. For example, fighter pilots will be able to use the weapon loads of drones and SAMs no different from their own weapons. It's basically CEC, but across the entire force. And it goes further than that in terms of tactics since there's only one decision maker for multiple systems.



The usual. Send a burst of information out called an interrogation signal, and if there is a response and it matches with the database you have, then it's friendly, otherwise it's a UFO and requires further validation. Using Mode 5/S IFF, we already have hardware that allows identification of targets without having to duplicate the effort in a busy radar environment. It means multiple radars watching the same airspace won't send out IFF individually for the same target, only one radar will send it out and then inform the other radars about it.



AFNET is the communication backbone, it's basically the IAF's personal Internet or even intranet. IACCS consists of the hardware and applications that ride AFNET, no different from how this forum rides the Internet.
I see we already have well oiled c4isr system as a form of AFNET which can ride almost every thing.

So what sort of ground segment this ODL would have required. A separate hardware and software?

Can IACCS act as IADS system? Since it is also having air segment so I believe all the AD data collected from aircraft through ODL will be fused.
 

randomradio

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I see we already have well oiled c4isr system as a form of AFNET which can ride almost every thing.

So what sort of ground segment this ODL would have required. A separate hardware and software?

We are currently relying on the Israeli B-NET for the air force. You can look up Youtube videos about how it works. It's mostly about tanks, but the concept is transferrable to aircraft.

Can IACCS act as IADS system? Since it is also having air segment so I believe all the AD data collected from aircraft through ODL will be fused.

IADS, AWACS, fighter jets, satellites, ground stations etc, all are connected through IACCS. And yes, all the data can be fused, almost everything is running on our own computers and software, with the exception of some outliers. It's not clear to what extent Rafale and M2000 can be integrated, but everything else will be. If Rafale MII happens, then we will likely end up using our own computers on both Rafale and M2000, or the French will make an India-specific one for us in a JV and hand over the source codes for it. Or the Rafale and M2000 can always receive raw data in a format they recognise and perform the fusion on their own. Anything will do, although the third option may potentially see additional data loss.
 

Chain Smoker

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We are currently relying on the Israeli B-NET for the air force. You can look up Youtube videos about how it works. It's mostly about tanks, but the concept is transferrable to aircraft.



IADS, AWACS, fighter jets, satellites, ground stations etc, all are connected through IACCS. And yes, all the data can be fused, almost everything is running on our own computers and software, with the exception of some outliers. It's not clear to what extent Rafale and M2000 can be integrated, but everything else will be. If Rafale MII happens, then we will likely end up using our own computers on both Rafale and M2000, or the French will make an India-specific one for us in a JV and hand over the source codes for it. Or the Rafale and M2000 can always receive raw data in a format they recognise and perform the fusion on their own. Anything will do, although the third option may potentially see additional data loss.
Doesn't matter we can use any SDR. And it's not just about radio it's about whole ground based segment as well
 

randomradio

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Doesn't matter we can use any SDR. And it's not just about radio it's about whole ground based segment as well

The ground based segment was established and has been functioning since 10+ years. The AFNET and IACCS started on the ground back in the 2000s. For the wireless component, the Israelis had supplied the initial ODL in 2009, but we wanted something better. HAL tried developing an SDR and failed to meet requirements, so the IAF started a tender in 2013. The SDR has been 7 years in the making and BNET won the tender.
 

Chain Smoker

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Hydra

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Our airforce cheifs are like Indira Gandhi, she had "Gareebi hatao" slogans to pump adrenaline to people's mind. And all airforce cheifs having MMRCA /mrfa/rafale procurement announcement to do the same.
 
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TARGET

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From IAF day promo video --R 27

1633455580804.png
 

randomradio

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IAF is like A " Chess Player "

Taking their own sweet time

Time is the Biggest concern

Not at all. They have been asking for an AoN since 2019. The govt has delayed it. The IAF is hoping to get it in 2022 so the RFP process can start. Had the IAF got their AoN in 2019, we would have been in the shortlist stage by now.