India to ban Crypto ?

RISING SUN

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Now imagine a bag of cash. how exactly would it be different?

The biggest ransomware ever was tracked and returned.


Indian "conservatives" are showing the same behaviors as the pre 90's generation of socialists. Fear of technology. Let the west deal with those, close the borders and we will do our own thing.
You can't carry cash above the allowed limit through customs/border control without proper identification and there is very high percentage of success in illegal money capture compared to Cryptocurrency which we don't have any idea who owns and utilizes for what ends. Cryptocurrency can't be mainstreamed till KYC rules are forced upon the industry globally at the same time. And even then also, it takes ridiculously crazy amount of computations to do what, just make money! That's what cryptocurrency is!!!

Aside, nobody has responded to my query till now, that how do you think Indian law enforcement will trace such illegals, and try to bring them to the books which is second part, neither here nor in twitter post.
 

Tatvamasi

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You can't carry cash above the allowed limit through customs/border control without proper identification and there is very high percentage of success in illegal money capture compared to Cryptocurrency which we don't have any idea who owns and utilizes for what ends. Cryptocurrency can't be mainstreamed till KYC rules are forced upon the industry globally at the same time. And even then also, it takes ridiculously crazy amount of computations to do what, just make money! That's what cryptocurrency is!!!
Hilarious, so old-school customs/border control will work but KYC won't?

How are you not understanding every bitcoin block can be tracked but its impossible with hard cash? Where are these half-baked ideas of "ridiculously crazy amount of computations" and "anonymity" coming from?

Aside, nobody has responded to my query till now, that how do you think Indian law enforcement will trace such illegals, and try to bring them to the books which is second part, neither here nor in twitter post.
Because its the exact ridiculous question (now) which our uncles then used against electronic communications. Its bytes flying in a vacuum how are we supposed to deal with it?!

TLDR: How are they tracking everything digital now? just like that.
 

RISING SUN

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Hilarious, so old-school customs/border control will work but KYC won't?

How are you not understanding every bitcoin block can be tracked but its impossible with hard cash? Where are these half-baked ideas of "ridiculously crazy amount of computations" and "anonymity" coming from?


Because its the exact ridiculous question (now) which our uncles then used against electronic communications. Its bytes flying in a vacuum how are we supposed to deal with it?!

TLDR: How are they tracking everything digital now? just like that.
Yes we are so old school that we don't know what is 135 million dollars, estimated to have been paid to get the confidential details back by major US and European organisations, ransom demanded and successfully paid in much adorable "BITCOIN" without workable trace. That's not me saying, that's FBI saying. Anything else?

Missed to add, that too only in less than six years timeframe investigation done by criminal agencies.

We don't say cash or plastic money is full proof but there is plenty of documented KYC evidence to nail the criminals, not so in the case of Cryptocurrency.
 
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Tatvamasi

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Yes we are so old school that we don't know what is 135 million dollars, estimated to have been paid to get the confidential details back by major US and European organisations, ransom demanded and successfully paid in much adorable "BITCOIN" without workable trace. That's not me saying, that's FBI saying. Anything else?

Missed to add, that too only in less than six years timeframe investigation done by criminal agencies.
What are you referring to? The largest ransomware was tracked and refunded by the FBI.


Admitting you are just like your socialist uncle won't cut it. Fearing what you don't understand is understandable but try to be reasonable. Telling its a western conspiracy and 'sub milahua hai' line wont work everytime.

We don't say cash or plastic money is full proof but there is plenty of documented KYC evidence to nail the criminals, not so in the case of Cryptocurrency.
Now, explain to me. If you find a bag with 1cr cash with supposedly illicit money how does indian law enforcement track it?
 

RISING SUN

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Why do hackers like cryptocurrency?​

Cryptocurrency provides a helpful ransom tool for cybercrooks. Rather than being an aberration or misuse, the ability to make anonymous (or pseudonymous) transfers is a central value proposition of cryptocurrency.

"Bitcoin can be acquired fairly easily. It's decentralized and readily available in almost any country," says Koen Maris, a cybersecurity expert and advisory board member at IOTA Foundation.

Different cryptocurrencies feature different levels of anonymity. Some cryptocurrencies, like Monero and Zcash, specialize in confidentiality and may even provide a higher level of security than Bitcoin for cybercriminals.

That's because Bitcoin isn't truly anonymous -- it's pseudonymous.

Bitcoin transfers are also fast, irreversible and easily verifiable. Once a ransomware victim has agreed to pay, the criminal can watch the transfer go through on the public blockchain.
Hilarious, so old-school customs/border control will work but KYC won't?

How are you not understanding every bitcoin block can be tracked but its impossible with hard cash? Where are these half-baked ideas of "ridiculously crazy amount of computations" and "anonymity" coming from?


Because its the exact ridiculous question (now) which our uncles then used against electronic communications. Its bytes flying in a vacuum how are we supposed to deal with it?!

TLDR: How are they tracking everything digital now? just like that.
Bitcoin is comparatively safer than many other cryptocurrency, however it's not the only cryptocurrency. Technology carries very much from coin to coun to the best of my understanding. Mostly when we talk of Cryptocurrency, we refer sometimes it as BITCOIN considering the popularity of it compared to rest of the cryptocurrency.
 

RISING SUN

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What are you referring to? The largest ransomware was tracked and refunded by the FBI.


Admitting you are just like your socialist uncle won't cut it. Fearing what you don't understand is understandable but try to be reasonable. Telling its a western conspiracy and 'sub milahua hai' line wont work everytime.


Now, explain to me. If you find a bag with 1cr cash with supposedly illicit money how does indian law enforcement track it?
When it's bag full of money, it most probably comes from the same series of currency notes as it's cumbersome to gather bulk notes from number of different sources. This leads to the trace of branch /ATM used to withdraw the cash. With the help of mandatory CCTV and Indian standard of KYC, it's fairly easily to trace the original withdrawer, if not the last. Person to person contact tracing is fairly easier in my opinion when concrete lead is received.

Again it's my personal opinion.

What are you referring to? The largest ransomware was tracked and refunded by the FBI.


Admitting you are just like your socialist uncle won't cut it. Fearing what you don't understand is understandable but try to be reasonable. Telling its a western conspiracy and 'sub milahua hai' line wont work everytime.
Colonial Pipeline paid 5 million dollars, not 2.3 million dollars and that too could be recovered only with combined brute force of Justice and other law enforcement agencies from US government.

The U.S. government helped recover about half of the Colonial ransom in its own cryptocurrency hacking operation, but Manky cautioned, "a big takeaway here is recovery of funds is not always possible, and in fact, is highly unlikely. This is a fairly exceptional case. People can't have that as a backup plan."

When Colonial Pipeline revealed it had paid a $5 million ransom in bitcoin to DarkSide ransomware hackers, its CEO said the company made the right choice for the nation. Most top financial officers at major companies disagree: but only because they say there was no "right" to factor into the decision — paying up was the only choice the company could make.
 

RISING SUN

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When an organization falls prey to cybercrime, the ransom is only one component of the financial cost. There are also remediation expenses including but not limited to lost orders, business downtime, consulting fees, and other unplanned expenses. Big companies might be able to ride it out, however small and medium enterprises will go immediately broke. Who do you think should pay up for such financial attacks against not only private organizations and public but also against financial sovereignty of the any country, not only India?
 

RISING SUN

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There is a saying here, when you look at too much at intense light, you tend to become blind to your whereabouts and nearby environment. People engaged in Cryptocurrency tend to over exaggerate its benifits while totally maintaining silence on the downside.
 
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Tatvamasi

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Bitcoin is comparatively safer than many other cryptocurrency,
Explain more. Shitcoin is used as assets, not for transitions.

When it's bag full of money, it most probably comes from the same series of currency notes as it's cumbersome to gather bulk notes from number of different sources. This leads to the trace of branch /ATM used to withdraw the cash. With the help of mandatory CCTV and Indian standard of KYC, it's fairly easily to trace the original withdrawer, if not the last. Person to person contact tracing is fairly easier in my opinion when concrete lead is received.
I said illicit money, not bank robbery!. :LOL:

And you think every note gone through an ATM all over the country is recorded and there is a central database where police can search note number boom location tracked now CCTV to verify o_O. Don't tell me there is nano chip in the Rs 2000 note too.

Colonial Pipeline paid 5 million dollars, not 2.3 million dollars and that too could be recovered only with combined brute force of Justice and other law enforcement agencies from US government.

The U.S. government helped recover about half of the Colonial ransom in its own cryptocurrency hacking operation, but Manky cautioned, "a big takeaway here is recovery of funds is not always possible, and in fact, is highly unlikely. This is a fairly exceptional case. People can't have that as a backup plan."

When Colonial Pipeline revealed it had paid a $5 million ransom in bitcoin to DarkSide ransomware hackers, its CEO said the company made the right choice for the nation. Most top financial officers at major companies disagree: but only because they say there was no "right" to factor into the decision — paying up was the only choice the company could make.
The value of the recovered Bitcoins was only $2.3 million in large part due to a progressive drop in Bitcoin market value since the date of the ransom payment. Through possession of the private key of the ransom account.


Do I have to give every link to check? A simple search would suffice.

The majority of the colonial pipeline ransom was recovered.

Now let's compare with the old school hacker attacks. Tell me how much was recovered and traced.



Tell me which is better? How is Crypto scarier? Here there will be an undeniable evidence trail that cannot be fudged.
 

RISING SUN

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Explain more. Shitcoin is used as assets, not for transitions.


I said illicit money, not bank robbery!. :LOL:

And you think every note gone through an ATM all over the country is recorded and there is a central database where police can search note number boom location tracked now CCTV to verify o_O. Don't tell me there is nano chip in the Rs 2000 note too.


The value of the recovered Bitcoins was only $2.3 million in large part due to a progressive drop in Bitcoin market value since the date of the ransom payment. Through possession of the private key of the ransom account.


Do I have to give every link to check? A simple search would suffice.

The majority of the colonial pipeline ransom was recovered.

Now let's compare with the old school hacker attacks. Tell me how much was recovered and traced.



Tell me which is better? How is Crypto scarier? Here there will be an undeniable evidence trail that cannot be fudged.
Being a very small part of Indian financial payment mechanism system, I understand Wikipedia isn't verifiable and official document/link.

Here is the official link if you would like to refer to.

On or about May 7, Colonial Pipeline was the victim of a highly publicized ransomware attack resulting in the company taking portions of its infrastructure out of operation. Colonial Pipeline reported to the FBI that its computer network was accessed by an organization named DarkSide and that it had received and paid a ransom demand for approximately 75 bitcoins.

As alleged in the supporting affidavit, by reviewing the Bitcoin public ledger, law enforcement was able to track multiple transfers of bitcoin and identify that approximately 63.7 bitcoins, representing the proceeds of the victim’s ransom payment, had been transferred to a specific address, for which the FBI has the “private key,” or the rough equivalent of a password needed to access assets accessible from the specific Bitcoin address. This bitcoin represents proceeds traceable to a computer intrusion and property involved in money laundering and may be seized pursuant to criminal and civil forfeiture statutes​
I guess CNBC would have much better credibility than a wiki page.

Here you go.

When Colonial Pipeline revealed it had paid a $5 million ransom in bitcoin to DarkSide ransomware hackers, its CEO said the company made the right choice for the nation. Most top financial officers at major companies disagree: but only because they say there was no "right" to factor into the decision — paying up was the only choice the company could make.

Whatever I have mentioned in this thread is verifiable and publically available information, however to only those who are willing to do their own due diligence.
 

jetray

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for which the FBI has the “private key,” or the rough equivalent of a password needed to access assets accessible from the specific Bitcoin address.
NSA , cyber security arm of USA only allows technologies it can control , right from encryption to OS. Now if you have your money on the net then it is easy for them to screw you left , right & center whenever they want. They can even make your wallet disappear into thin air and there is nothing much you can do about it.
 

RISING SUN

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NSA , cyber security arm of USA only allows technologies it can control , right from encryption to OS. Now if you have your money on the net then it is easy for them to screw you left , right & center whenever they want. They can even make your wallet disappear into thin air and there is nothing much you can do about it.
Agreed, however not all countries have the level of expertise, experience and tools to extract such deeply buried information. Just for the information, in the above mentioned case of Colonial pipeline, there were 23 layers of currency and wallets used to syphon the amount. Not every nation has the right kind of tools to unearth such sophisticated attacks, not looking feasible at least in near to mid term realistically speaking.
And even with their massive resources, FBI and justice department & others were able to only unearth partial Bitcoins only. That says something about the level of cyber warfare being waged against country's sovereignty.
 

jetray

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country with highest percentage of patriots having most confidence in their currency.

 

RISING SUN

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I don't understand the difference between a Ponzi scheme and a gambling except that in one gets robbed using ulterior motives (in ponzy schemes) and second one in which person places the bet over things he/she doesn't have control.
 

A Person

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A Ponzi scheme is a disguised form of pyramid scheme.

In the classic pyramid scheme, you get told to pay X money to one person and then convince other people to pay you X money so that they can convince even other people of paying them X money, and so on. It works just fine, until it doesn't because the scheme has run out of gullible people to scam.

But a pyramid scheme is very easy to recognize. The Ponzi scheme is where you basically run a pyramid scheme with an alibi. It can be a legitimate business that really bring in legitimate money; but in addition to that legitimate income there's some book-cooking to bring in an illegitimate part, that grows bigger and bigger as the scheme develop. The historical Ponzi scheme worked like this: disguising some of the money he received from investors as profit from his business, Ponzi convinced more investors to invest in his scheme for the very high returns on investment he was getting, and the more investors he had, the more of their money he cooked to make the return look bigger so as to scam even more investors, and so on. Eventually though some of the investors wanted to get their money back (now that it had been inflated to a pretendly very high amount) and that's when the whole thing crashed: at first it was possible to pay them (and it helped look legit) but as less and less new investors were lured and more and more old investors wanted to walk away with their prize, it became unsustainable and collapsed.

So it worked a bit like a pyramid scheme, in that the thing that sustains it is getting a geometric increase in the number of marks. Once growth slows down, the whole thing implodes.

And that's where cryptocurrency is a Ponzi scheme. People are sold a pretend currency with the promise that its value will only increase as time passes because It Is The Future Of Money and It Will Bring Prosperity To All. But a currency's use is trading, and it's only useful if you can use it to trade. Otherwise it's like buying a collector item, you can't use it you can just feel happy that you own it and perhaps hope to sell it at a profit to another sucker later (this is where NFTs enter the play, by the way). So to use your currency, you have to convince other people to buy in the crypto promise, too. Every crypto pigeon becomes a crypto evangelist.

And all this time, the value of Bitcoin and others keeps climbing. Hurry up and buy! The sooner you get in, the bigger your profits! Bitcoin will only go up uP UP! If it goes down, "hodl" until it goes up again, it always does!

But as the Jacobin article shows, most of the rise in value is artificial, and deliberately caused by speculators. Eventually, the book cooking will no longer suffice and everything will crash.
A Ponzi scheme is a disguised form of pyramid scheme.

In the classic pyramid scheme, you get told to pay X money to one person and then convince other people to pay you X money so that they can convince even other people of paying them X money, and so on. It works just fine, until it doesn't because the scheme has run out of gullible people to scam.

But a pyramid scheme is very easy to recognize. The Ponzi scheme is where you basically run a pyramid scheme with an alibi. It can be a legitimate business that really bring in legitimate money; but in addition to that legitimate income there's some book-cooking to bring in an illegitimate part, that grows bigger and bigger as the scheme develop. The historical Ponzi scheme worked like this: disguising some of the money he received from investors as profit from his business, Ponzi convinced more investors to invest in his scheme for the very high returns on investment he was getting, and the more investors he had, the more of their money he cooked to make the return look bigger so as to scam even more investors, and so on. Eventually though some of the investors wanted to get their money back (now that it had been inflated to a pretendly very high amount) and that's when the whole thing crashed: at first it was possible to pay them (and it helped look legit) but as less and less new investors were lured and more and more old investors wanted to walk away with their prize, it became unsustainable and collapsed.

So it worked a bit like a pyramid scheme, in that the thing that sustains it is getting a geometric increase in the number of marks. Once growth slows down, the whole thing implodes.

And that's where cryptocurrency is a Ponzi scheme. People are sold a pretend currency with the promise that its value will only increase as time passes because It Is The Future Of Money and It Will Bring Prosperity To All. But a currency's use is trading, and it's only useful if you can use it to trade. Otherwise it's like buying a collector item, you can't use it you can just feel happy that you own it and perhaps hope to sell it at a profit to another sucker later (this is where NFTs enter the play, by the way). So to use your currency, you have to convince other people to buy in the crypto promise, too. Every crypto pigeon becomes a crypto evangelist.

And all this time, the value of Bitcoin and others keeps climbing. Hurry up and buy! The sooner you get in, the bigger your profits! Bitcoin will only go up uP UP! If it goes down, "hodl" until it goes up again, it always does!

But as the Jacobin article shows, most of the rise in value is artificial, and deliberately caused by speculators. Eventually, the book cooking will no longer suffice and everything will crash.
 

jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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1,242
India
I don't understand the difference between a Ponzi scheme and a gambling except that in one gets robbed using ulterior motives (in ponzy schemes) and second one in which person places the bet over things he/she doesn't have control.
Most cryptos are a pump & dump scheme in which you will have no control unless you are the one doing it.