India to ban Crypto ?

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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With that logic we should have banned internet.

Only someone who has no idea about crypto would act like this.
Is that the logic Crytpo exchanges are going to make their case?

Let me make a simple and already happened instance and wait for a convincing reply.

How to trace a extortionist from a foreign country who asks for funds in exchange for stolen goods/information/security details if that extortionist lives In foreign country with loose KYC regulations? How will law enforcement trace such guys?
Politicians and Businesses are already using them to hide their black money.
Reason- able to maintain their anonymity, hence all the more reason to ban it. Further how are you going to convince FATF that GOI did became a unwilling partner in crimes by financing terror and hawala dubious transactions?
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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The government of India is one of the largest (inefficient) Banking operators. Crypto gaining strength will kill GoI and its minions who use PSU banks like their personal kitty will get affected. Not to mention GOI's holding in private banks will degrade in value.
Blockchain isn't equal to Crypto currency and that's the error many make. Without including crypto currency, banking system is still being overhauled using blockchain technology, example new Blockchain based OTP and transactions. RBI is rather aggressively pushing for blockchain in trials contrary to the minority opinions here.
 
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RISING SUN

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Now explain yourself. How exactly is "not advantageous to India right now" but ok for everyone else?

Its a total misconception that somehow crypto makes you anonymous thus its more susceptible to black money. Every single transaction of crypto can be tracked and traced. It makes transactions more transparent, unlike a regular bank. Every current indian exchange adheres to KYC and is linked to PAN. All addresses can be traced to an individual.

Cash is the most opaque and non-traceable transaction mechanism medium we use. Nothing comes close.

Banning crypto will slow down innovation and take out huge opportunities in the web3 era. It will make sure that India remains laggard in this new gen of tech innovations too like it was for all previous generations.
Do all crypto currency and exchanges across the world adhere to same/similar set of contact tracing? There lies your answer.
 

RISING SUN

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195 out of 195 countries use Fiat, why do you think it just kills GoI?
Fact of the matter is, only those countries are accepting it as primary source currency who did worst financially, be it Russia or some south american country. Very few if any western world countries have allowed it as currency considering the terror funding risks it involves.
Crypto does not change anything here. Traceability and proving who did what with it will be transparent and easy to establish.

An example:

Vitalik buterin transferred close to billion-dollar to indian covid relief fund.


Here is the transaction:

Now you can track each and every penny. Where and how it spends.


Clearly, you do not know much about this subject. It's not possible to buy crypto now without KYC. On the stock market, Please do not search for "DeFi" you will get nightmares. :LOL:

The point is, innovation will happen with or without India. This field has created already generated more value than the entire GDP of India. A blanket ban will only take the capital, talent, and opportunities out. It will be too late before the inevitable reversal.
An error every Indian Crytpo currency supporter makes is that they assume the same KYC norms with same rigititdy are maintained throughout the globe...
 
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RISING SUN

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Fiat currency circulation is around $40 trillion USD, and several times more in reserve. Yeah, just give your monetary control from USD to private currencies.

What a great idea this is.

People in the US are talking about this, and here we talking about such a matter. Hum Indians alag level ke ch hai.


And please use a good crypto mixer, if someone doesn't want authorities to track your transactions.
India is going to follow the lead of China in this instance and it troubles Russians a lot seeing India banning "private" Crypto currency all together.
 

RISING SUN

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195 out of 195 countries use Fiat, why do you think it just kills GoI?
I was going through Binance chief interview and, if I remember correctly, what he stated that he doesn't see Crypto reaching the level of free market currency same as doller level in next 1-2 decades as trust level is missing in the crypto currency and fiat currency easy to keep track of comparatively. He says he is pushing for KYC follow in crypto world but isn't sure if it will be implemented fully ever due to fundamentals of cryptocurrency to maintain anonymity.
The whole point of crypto is that it costs several billion times more processing powers than normal online banking, which is why there are now gigantic bitcoin mining farms in various poor countries where power is cheap (especially China). And while it's hard to really measure how much electricity crypto mining consumes exactly, it's estimated that it's on par with the power consumption of a small developed country. This is only going to grow and grow as more and more people embrace crypto, and the chains get longer and longer. To get the entire population of the Earth to use crypto banking, you'd need to start by building a Dyson sphere around the sun so as to collect enough power to fuel it.

Pretty funny to see people arguing that crypto, something that is by design deliberately inefficient, will kill off "inefficient banking operators".
More power consumption than 50 country's economy individually speaking. That was recorded recently.
 

Arpit

Vox Populi
Nov 30, 2017
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Delhi
I was going through Binance chief interview and, if I remember correctly, what he stated that he doesn't see Crypto reaching the level of free market currency same as doller level in next 1-2 decades as trust level is missing in the crypto currency and fiat currency easy to keep track of comparatively. He says he is pushing for KYC follow in crypto world but isn't sure if it will be implemented fully ever due to fundamentals of cryptocurrency to maintain anonymity.

More power consumption than 50 country's economy individually speaking. That was recorded recently.
What a joke. Please ask them do they want Silk Road in India? And does our law enforcement have resources like of FBI to trace the servers?

Seriously, do they ever check the dark web? You can even buy child pornography with bitcoin, I am surprised the idioticness exists in India.
 

Arpit

Vox Populi
Nov 30, 2017
306
282
Delhi
And I have actually seen how some companies in Gurgaon and Noida used to do business in stolen iPhones using bitcoin. Don't go into much detail, but business-like Cellbudy is not 100% legit.

This in fact exemplifies how we have a socialist government just like congress. They think somehow there is something called "private crypto". I have never seen anyone else use that term. RBI crypto makes me giggle.

They did the same thing with Data Protection Draft Bill. Government is fully exempt from it. This public/private binary mindset cannot be fixed on these boomer generations I guess.
So Govt should enact rubber stamp FISA courts like US?
Atleast they are truthful. it is high time to operationalise NATGRID.
 
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jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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Now you can track each and every penny. Where and how it spends.
why do you need crypto for that blockchain will do that, not just money/financial field it can be used in most of the sectors.
Clearly, you do not know much about this subject. It's not possible to buy crypto now without KYC.
Do you know what KYC should stand for ? "know your country". You are talking about India rt?


Any idiot can get a ID card in India, do you think we are able to prevent hawala right now with aadhar , then what makes you think we can prevent crypto abuse. As I said India as a system is not ready, there is a good reason why capital controls exist. Its not just hawala every tom & dick harry will put his money in crypto and Indian govt will have hard time getting it back.

The point is, innovation will happen with or without India. This field has created already generated more value than the entire GDP of India. A blanket ban will only take the capital, talent, and opportunities out. It will be too late before the inevitable reversal.
do you know what is the valuation of Tesla , all the car companies combined together. But tesla's revenue or cars sold is hardly any thing to boast about.

Crypto is not the silver bullet more than that seems you are mesmerized by it that you dont want to look at the -ves of it.

On BTC, Multiple trillions worth of transactions happened without a hack. And it is verifiable by everyone on the chain. Can show me one instance of BTC or ETH's "falsify history" case ?
Think in a practical manner all those systems are outside the country and most of it is now led owned by foreign powers. All that they need to do is kick you out of the system. The country or organization which owns the most computing power will will control the system.
There's proof of stake to deal with that.
and one who owns the most stake will kick you out of the system. Who will own the most stake the guys who created it of course, does dollar ring a bell?
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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and one who owns the most stake will kick you out of the system. Who will own the most stake the guys who created it of course, does dollar ring a bell?

That's not how it works though. For PoS, you need to hold 51% of the crypto in order to invalidate even good transactions. Any coin that wants long term growth will need to avoid a single majority holder or a cartel. The alternative is the coin will simply lose its value since the information of transactions themselves are public and up for scrutiny. The point being only good, clean coins will survive. The rest will just drop into the scam trash bin.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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As I said like, dollar ones clean no manipulation nothing whatsoever.

The dollar is backed by real wealth, crypto is not. Crypto is backed by being clean. A PoS coin that fails at ensuring a clean system can and will be dropped overnight. The dollar will never drop like that. You think the US will mess around if they can disappear overnight taking such risks?

The main advantage of PoS is the whales need to keep the system clean if they want to keep their value. There's no value in being a whale if there's no demand to the coins held.
 

screambowl

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Dec 19, 2017
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People with huge investment will then get their money through Nepal. Babus can't trace anything. They request foreigners to get details in return of business. India doesn' have that high technology to trace transactions especially when it's 2048 bit encryption. That's why they are banning it :p
12th standard teen are more expert than their whole ED, IB and RAW babus these days.
 

jetray

Senior member
Mar 15, 2018
1,840
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India
The dollar is backed by real wealth,
brute force.
The main advantage of PoS is the whales need to keep the system clean if they want to keep their value.
we are no whales, if whales are in control it will be for their advantage not yours. Probably you need some dose of practicality , dollar is kept in vogue by the bretton woods institutions, like IMF & world bank .. a elaborate system designed to favor one party. Same thing will happen with crypto too, why would you jump into a system which is designed & controlled to make you fail?
People with huge investment will then get their money through Nepal. Babus can't trace anything. They request foreigners to get details in return of business. India doesn' have that high technology to trace transactions especially when it's 2048 bit encryption. That's why they are banning it :p
12th standard teen are more expert than their whole ED, IB and RAW babus these days.
even if you trace it also there is nothing we can do abt it, it will be just like extraditing mallya or nirav modi. In this case it will be even more worse.
 

Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
Moderator
Dec 2, 2017
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Blockchain isn't equal to Crypto currency and that's the error many make. Without including crypto currency, banking system is still being overhauled using blockchain technology, example new Blockchain based OTP and transactions. RBI is rather aggressively pushing for blockchain in trials contrary to the minority opinions here.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating. Go to any SBI (Largest PSU bank) branch and see what trickles down from RBI.
 

Jaymax

Well-Known member
Apr 1, 2019
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3rd Rock from the Sun
The issue is old school mandarins who feel Bitcoin is creating money without Govt control. This money is beyond their control. They cannot track it, they cannot seize it.

That is what they cannot stomach.

Long story short - how does the govt stop an Indian sitting in India to get Paypal/ virtual cards - get bitcoin and then transact anonymously?
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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Proof of the pudding is in the eating. Go to any SBI (Largest PSU bank) branch and see what trickles down from RBI.
As I said it's under mass testing, OTP failure you would have heard off late. That's because blockchain is getting Integrated in telecom and banking system.
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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Is that the logic Crytpo exchanges are going to make their case?

Let me make a simple and already happened instance and wait for a convincing reply.

How to trace a extortionist from a foreign country who asks for funds in exchange for stolen goods/information/security details if that extortionist lives In foreign country with loose KYC regulations? How will law enforcement trace such guys?

Reason- able to maintain their anonymity, hence all the more reason to ban it. Further how are you going to convince FATF that GOI did became a unwilling partner in crimes by financing terror and hawala dubious transactions?
 

Tatvamasi

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Jan 5, 2018
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Now imagine a bag of cash. how exactly would it be different?

The biggest ransomware ever was tracked and returned.


Indian "conservatives" are showing the same behaviors as the pre 90's generation of socialists. Fear of technology. Let the west deal with those, close the borders and we will do our own thing.