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Hellfire

Hellfire
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What about Pakistani fighters operating within their side of LOC when they're raining munition into the Indian region (aon a military brigade HQ)
Offensive actions taken by PAF jets even from their side of LOC should/must trigger immediate retaliation!


A very typical approach of you of posting a coherent and valid question here.

Let me just try and give a brief answer. We can expand later if you want.

1. PAF strike was carried out from their side of LC but within 10 kms of the agreed no fly zone, thereby a technical violation wherein we were in our power to shoot them down. Did we? No. Because we probably were vectoring Su-30 MKIs towards the threat and scrambling the Mig-21s from Srinagar AFB.

2. It would have taken about 1-2 minutes for F-16s, which would have 'pooped up' from within the mountain contours to fire their munitions into Indian territory, in the process ingressing about 3-5 kms into our side as they sought to egress back.. All the while their escorts would have been holding to engage Indian fighters moving in.

3. In that scenario, with strike package egressing into their territory, and no declaration of war by India against Pakistan, constraints of ROE forbade BVRAAMs from firing. The only option was WVRAAM, taken by the Mig-21 and the consequences therafter.

4. Yes, this was a situation which was expected, PAF retaliation was expected and we were waiting. What we were not waiting for, was our hero to get shot down, inspite of ROE and Radar Controllers warning him. That, sir, was an act of aggression undertaken precisely in same manner as PAF F-16, changing the narrative briefly from anti-terror air operations by IAF to potential Indo-Pak War. The whole diplomatic maneuvering space got constricted.

5. The right to retaliation was and is still ours. Right to aggressive action against air force of a country retaliating for an attack against a terror group, without declaring the nation a terror nation for supporting militarily the terror group by GoI till now, is farcical and antithetical to our own narrative of this being an anti-terror operation.
 

Hellfire

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The Military I mean, you destroy the Military and the ISI. The people cease to become a threat. They will be too busy killing their own people to be too bothered about us. Without the military, and a broken/non existant govt. We will be able to bomb/ or do what ever we wish to terror camps at will.


How?

What do you think are the potential effects? What do you think are the steps required to addres them?

My proposal, why don't you create an opinion, let us throw ideas around, including and not limited to options, actions required, diplomatic, political, military and economic fall out, expected challenges, expected results and actions needed to be undertaken and post-result security situation and managing the same with, of course, the cost to us in terms of human lives, both during and after conflict and economic.
 
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Hellfire

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I am sure about it. The so called poem by IAF today is a clear indication of it. One of my relatives who was an Instructor in IMA and also a DS in the house of OWLS is now commanding an armoured regiment in deserts of Rajasthan. I do have lot of Info but can't post. God willing, in next 6-8 years, at least two Chiefs will be from my bloodline.


Okay sir. If you say so. :)
 

Star Wars

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How?

What do you think are the potential effects? What do you think are the steps required to addres them?

My proposal, why don't you create an opinion, let us throw ideas around, including and not limited to options, actions required, diplomatic, political, military and economic fall out, expected challenges, expected results and actions needed to be undertaken and post-result security situation and managing the same with, of course, the cost to us in terms of human lives, both during and after conflict and economic.

I'm at office, I'll post in detail later when I have some spare time. Though I'm pretty sure what I'm about to post is probably what the govt. is doing. The Rough idea is to impose an economic war on them and make it unsustainable for them to maintain such a big military. Once that happens, their own bluster and propaganda which they have regurgitated on their own population should help us.
 
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Hellfire

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@Falcon. You say a Million things
But you never make sense

You want me to make sense for you, for your 'peace', on an open forum? How about I just send a write up to DG ISPR about what is going to happen? What do you think?

You simply go around in Circles
Beating around the Bush

LOL, blame Indian Army for that - we are taught to make sure nothing is hiding in the bush.

If you think that this problem will be solved
Without using military force
Then you are badly mistaken

I may be mistaken, doubt am perfect by even the P. But I asked you to expand. Military option chant is pure nonsense. You need to expand.


And you dont understand the Pakistani psyche

I, perhaps, do, a bit better than most here?
 

vstol Jockey

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Just one question which I asked earlier also about war in the short run and you said yes this time it will be different...now after the events of past one week again asking, have we descalated or there is a strategic pause which will allow us to regroup and hit hard once again. Has interenational community taken given their word about our enemies future behaviour and we are watching? Thanks
We pinched them and never escalated or de-escalated. We are going to keep them in this state of limbo of undeclared war for some time till we wreck them financially as what was stated by @Falcon in his post about imposing cost on Pakistan. The initiative has been wrested from Pakistan. We now have the ability to dictate and impose our will. The choice of escalation or de-escalation lies with Pakistan now.
 

Hellfire

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I'm at office, I'll post in detail later when I have some spare time. Though I'm pretty sure what I'm about to post is probably what the govt. is doing.

Take your time.

Also understand that when you will expand and elaborate, I can comment without constraints. But when people expect me to be clear, I can not, for I can insinuate, point but never quantify exactly. Those who understand, good for them.
 
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_Anonymous_

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YOu tried it, got humiliated and you are welcome to try again..
Nothing gives us more adreneline rush than a war with India.





O boy O boy. See the adrenaline rush. The PA seems poised to take on an army twice it's size and win. See the Josh.
 
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Guynextdoor

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This fundamental of prayer is the bullshit that will do us in. He has been kidnapped, do you think it possible that Police will not know who took him? Let the war expand, kidnap the NOK of the perpetrator. It shall send the message loud and clear.
Fighting on field is one thing ......

I will believe in miracles until the adverse is confirmed. I hope he comes back
 
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Guynextdoor

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Exactly. The present dispensation spends more time downing RaGa and Kejriwal that their achievements are put if background as narrative becomes of screams, abuses and counter abuses. That is precisely what opposition wants, the great work being done by GoI ignored and people being fooled on a daily basis. And BJP loves playing the same, being the idiots that they generally are.

I'm not going to comment upon accomplishments or lack of because this is not the time. But yes, involving in mud-slinging in this sensitive time reduces the quality of leadership.
 

BlackOpsIndia

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@Falcon with due deference sir I strongly belive whatever action against terrorists we want will be cosmetic, maybe a step up from previous times with the kind of pressure they are in today but I have no doubt that it will be just a tactical retreat, once things settled down Pakistan will be back in bed with terrorists, I have no doubt about it.

They are biding their time and they won't change a bit instead will come back with greater animosity towards us for putting them in this suffering and humiliation.

There are no easy solutions to this, we are trapped in a war where there is no easy exit except becoming a madman, except going after the top leadership again and again (not of terrorists but Pakistani military establishment) they most certainly will try same and we will lose few top people too but when it will start affecting the masterminds and their families they will think twice.

Other way is we keep playing this like we are doing and focusing on economy, keep Pakistan engaged in security problems, still ready to take few blows (will public accept?) be ready to lose elections for not paying back in same coin and maybe after 12-15 years when gap between us and Pakistan is monumental we go for a final squeeze, with our standing we may not even need burning our diplomatic capital to put Pakistani top leadership on tight leash.
 

vstol Jockey

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My rejoinder, sir, is that are not each and everyone of us responsible for it? We get what our society is, at every level.
I agree, very few know the exact shloka of Chanakya which states Yatha raja , Thatha praja. The shloka starts from water. The real shloka says," The way the water under the land, same is the kind of seed and crop it will have, the way a nation speaks (Constitution), the same way people will behave and have the kind of king.

*यथा भूमिस्तथा तोयं यथाबीजस्तथाङ्कुरः।*
*यथा देशस्तथा भाषा यथा राजा तथा प्रजाः।।*
Bhaio, ab Brahmanon ko sanskrit mat samjhana.
 

The enlightened

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Dec 2, 2017
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Pakistan's biggest advantage is that it truly is a suicidal entity fighting a nation that can be spooked by the loss of just one man.

This allows them the confidence to act and shape the course of this journey while we spend our time bean counting the 'costs of war'. Pakistanis have already taken those costs into their stride and have gotten a fair measure of our visible cowardice.

Some people boasted about how Balakot strikes were the first time a nuclear powered country had performed air strikes on another nuclear powered country. Great. Except that doesn't come close to the achievement of that nuclear powered country that had earlier physically occupied the land of said nuclear armed country and walked away with it without retaliation.

Meanwhile even in supposed peacetime, we continue to bleed - thousands of soldiers dead and thousands more to come. Yes, Pakistan has lost more, but that was due to their own stupidity, not from India avenging its dead and guess what, people learn from their mistakes. In fact despite all the carnage, Pakistanis have played a brilliant game of outwitting and outlasting the global superpower. It's not long before Taliban returns to power and all the 'bad terrorists' start making their way to Kashmir again.

Thankfully, the people in charge at the time did not suffer such fear when we were dealing with the erstwhile East Pakistan and withstood all the 'economic, diplomatic, military fall outs'. Imagine the 'costs' India would have had to pay had they not.
 

jetray

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Long back in 1996, just after leaving IN, I had gone for training to Germany with Lufthansa for Boeing B737. My Instructor their was very anti-British. he told me that wherever British have gone, they have left poverty, English and right hand drive behind. Same is the case with USA. Whereever they have gone, they have left the place in total disarray and in a worst condition than what it was before they went in. I have a feeling that US wants us to sort out Pakistan and thru that Taliban before they leave Afghanistan. Things are going to turn pretty bad for Pakistan in next few months and all the hullabullo about Taliban talks will die down completely.
There's a good reason why ISIS is popping up in that place. I am very much sure US has a plan for Pakistan.
 

Shajida Khan

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Dec 27, 2017
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@Falcon. You say a Million things
But you never make sense

You simply go around in Circles
Beating around the Bush

If you think that this problem will be solved
Without using military force
Then you are badly mistaken

And you dont understand the Pakistani psyche
His central thesis is written in his status. Helping Pakistani Make Pakistan Grate Again! If you understand that, you will have no problem in understanding what he says.
Though I doubt that it is the best recourse for us.
 
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safriz

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Jan 1, 2018
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YOur Pilot Abhinandan did impress us a person and a soldier.
How he presented himself and stuck to the script was how a true soldier should behave.
Well trained and thoroughly professional.
The IAF should have given him better equipment such as SU-30 instead of waisting him on a flying coffin.
 

lcafanboy

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Dec 22, 2017
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LOC too hot to handle...
Heavy artillery being used liberally...
2 Pak border posts decimated...
Ambulances seen across the border, heavy casualties inflicted on Pak side.....😊😊😊
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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YOur Pilot Abhinandan did impress us a person and a soldier.
How he presented himself and stuck to the script was how a true soldier should behave.
Well trained and thoroughly professional.
The IAF should have given him better equipment such as SU-30 instead of waisting him on a flying coffin.
If a flying coffin brings down a FA which is the pride of your air Force, I'd take that every day.
 

BlackOpsIndia

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
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YOur Pilot Abhinandan did impress us a person and a soldier.
How he presented himself and stuck to the script was how a true soldier should behave.
Well trained and thoroughly professional.
The IAF should have given him better equipment such as SU-30 instead of waisting him on a flying coffin.
You are presented with a platform and instead of talking sense you are busy with troll posts most of the time, what a waste of opportunity.

Do you really think that by posting flamebait troll kind of replies you will somehow insult us or become superior? People get back at you with much more derogatory language and in all that in your little pissing match the thread goes to hell for next few pages.

Avoid these flamebait posts otherwise we have to move them to chit chat off topic section, we can't keep seeing this beautiful thread derailing again and again.
 

lcafanboy

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Dec 22, 2017
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YOur Pilot Abhinandan did impress us a person and a soldier.
How he presented himself and stuck to the script was how a true soldier should behave.
Well trained and thoroughly professional.
The IAF should have given him better equipment such as SU-30 instead of waisting him on a flying coffin.
Yeah! Even pa-ki girls and Aunties are impressed by our wing co Abhinandan...😁😁😂😂😂
They found him hot and full....😁😁😂
 
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