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Hellfire

Hellfire
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Nov 30, 2017
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Let me start getting things back on track.

Bhai log , escalation is not far away

Nothing yet.

The lull that has been seen over the past few days, is because the Government of India has given time to the major World Powers, including and not limited to China, Russia, US, UK & France, to 'convince' the GoP led by Mr IK Niazi, to walk the talk. Towards this end, the statement by Chinese Foreign Minister Mr Wang Yi today, must be read in the context of what is happening behind the scenes.

Bravado notwithstanding, both GoP and PA have been made clear that there is no world condemnation of Indian actions in present case. That GoI has, inspited of clear provocation by PAF action, reserved the right to take all measures and refrained from undertaking any action and allowed GoP to work towards what it says it is honest in implementing, indicates that Indian action was taken under it's War on Terror and not as War on Pakistan.

That India has refused to declare any stand down in it's posture till terror is stopped, is indicative of India willing to take measures as deemed appropriate if Pakistan fails to show visible, verifiable and concrete steps against any and all entities undertaking acts of terror against India.

A sad news
IN was about to blow Karachi a REDUX of 1971 and was about to take out PN. Also 3 more Pak cities were to be blown up by IA and IAF was ready to blow all PAF bases. Last minute intervention by US, Abhinandan, Pak govt begging prevented it. Their luck got them wing co Abhinandan who was returned unhurt got them reprieve....😁😁😂


All hyperbole, disregard. IN was not going to do any such thing. Pakistanis and their imaginations.

A very sad news though chopper crash at Budgam was due to friendly fire.....😥😥


Nonsense.

Ne one wants to bet with me on escalation?
Time period 3 mnths..10000bucks?
I say bajwa ki bajegee.


And how many lives are we supposed to lose doing that?
 

sid4587

Active member
Jan 10, 2018
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India
There seems to be a much larger game at work here. I believe the entire thing is related to the Afghanistan Withdrawal by US Forces.
Diplomatically, Pakistan has already faced complete isolation. Even the Chinese will find it hard to defend Pakistan Publically(Everything will be much clearer on 13th). I honestly would not be surprised if the country even lasts until the next General elections in 2024. Contrary to popular belief, Modi's Pakistan policy has been consistent. Which is to gradually attack the Pak economy from several fronts. Even if that means assisting Bangladesh improve its exports. That is the reason Pak has been desperate to over throw Modi.
Modi is almost following pakistan policy but here instead of giving thousand cuts he is giving thousand penetration which cannot be healed via stitches
 

Hellfire

Hellfire
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LOL.
We were telling the world what's coming next and it did.
The next morning,
We were busy arresting your pilot and trying to put out the fire on his wreckage.
While the shoopa doopa invincible SU-30 was falling in the indian territory.


Ignoring the sequence of trolling that led to your post as here. Let me just put out few points:

1. GoP had declared back in Dec 2008 that the ramifications of an Indian Air Force strike into PoJ&K may be a war in Nuclear backdrop.
2. IAF struck targets inside Pakistan, not merely PoJ&K, when PAF was on continuous alert for almost 12 days.
3. PAF strike was expected. It was intercepted. Contrary to the fanboys claims on either side, 01 x Mig 21, the only loss that took place, from what I can verify through multiple channels and data summaries, did manage to shoot down a F-16, something which I take as being exhibitive of an action taken in consonance with the stated objective of strikes in Pakistan of being 'pre-emptive' and against terrorists.
4. War against Pakistan has and had not been declared by GoI and IAF merely undertook defensive actions in accordance with the rules of engagement as valid under all bilateral agreements.

I shall elaborate on Mig-21 shooting down subsequently in a later post not addressed to you.
 

Star Wars

Well-Known member
Dec 1, 2017
484
506
Bangalore
And how many lives are we supposed to lose doing that?

Its Pakistan, as long as we sit and do nothing. We are gradually going to loose lives. Its simply does not seem healthy for a country as diseased as Pakistan to exist besides India in its current state. Way back in 2011-12, I had hope that they would learn from their war on terror, the APS massacre and the countless lives they had lost. The first thing they did after stabilizing their internal situation was to focus on India. India will always remain their prime focus. There is only one way to solve that problem.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,515
4,615
Let me start getting things back on track.



Nothing yet.

The lull that has been seen over the past few days, is because the Government of India has given time to the major World Powers, including and not limited to China, Russia, US, UK & France, to 'convince' the GoP led by Mr IK Niazi, to walk the talk. Towards this end, the statement by Chinese Foreign Minister Mr Wang Yi today, must be read in the context of what is happening behind the scenes.

Bravado notwithstanding, both GoP and PA have been made clear that there is no world condemnation of Indian actions in present case. That GoI has, inspited of clear provocation by PAF action, reserved the right to take all measures and refrained from undertaking any action and allowed GoP to work towards what it says it is honest in implementing, indicates that Indian action was taken under it's War on Terror and not as War on Pakistan.

That India has refused to declare any stand down in it's posture till terror is stopped, is indicative of India willing to take measures as deemed appropriate if Pakistan fails to show visible, verifiable and concrete steps against any and all entities undertaking acts of terror against India.




All hyperbole, disregard. IN was not going to do any such thing. Pakistanis and their imaginations.




Nonsense.




And how many lives are we supposed to lose doing that?

Sir if we de escalate now for say three months, in that period , what steps can we expect from the World community

As far as we have seen in the past
When ever we descalate , Pakistan goes
Back to its earlier habits
 

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
6,255
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New Delhi
Sir if we de escalate now for say three months, in that period , what steps can we expect from the World community

As far as we have seen in the past
When ever we descalate , Pakistan goes
Back to its earlier habits
It was an undeclared war and Wg. Cdr. Abhi was treated as a POW. But Pak Army and Pak AF have violated lot of articles of Geneva Convention. India has every right to move International War Tribunal and ask for trial of Pak Army Chief and PAF chief for trial for war crimes.
 
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Hellfire

Hellfire
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We lost media war due to the cheats within. We need a better media center than ISPR as they are the masters of this game. AND given our ability, we can out smart them anyday.


We lost the perception war because of the following reasons:

1. All parties were on board and during the execution of the operations, not one party made any comment.
2. Amit Shah, in Guwahati, on 26th Feb 19, made a statement that unlike Congress, this time there is a Government that will respond to attack.
3. This opened the can of worms ... whereby politicization was always a given. This is precisely what happened in aftermath of Uri - GoI declared and then there should have been a gag order. This is what happened now - ill informed claims of kills. Whatever message was being sent with the strike, gets lost as now, the threshold will be lowered in terms of scale of attack, yet frequency will increase. Eg Jammu grenade attack.
4. The foot in mouth disease which the present dispensation seems to have, undoes all the gains made.
5. No one ever questioned the Armed Forces till the first refrain from present government 'Are you questioning the armed forces' came out. Now? Every tom, dick and harry on twitter is questioning the armed forces themselves.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,515
4,615
It was an undeclared war and Wg. Cdr. Abhi was treated as a POW. But Pak Army and Pak AF have violated lot of articles of Geneva Convention. India has every right to move International War Tribunal and ask for trial of Pak Army Chief and PAF chief for trial for war crimes.

The thing is very simple

Pakistan considers the Feb 26 - 27 engagement as equal - equal

Now they are under no obligation to act
Against Terrorists

The only thing that they are afraid of is FATF
And UN sanction on Masood Azhar
 

Star Wars

Well-Known member
Dec 1, 2017
484
506
Bangalore
We lost the perception war because of the following reasons:

1. All parties were on board and during the execution of the operations, not one party made any comment.
2. Amit Shah, in Guwahati, on 26th Feb 19, made a statement that unlike Congress, this time there is a Government that will respond to attack.
3. This opened the can of worms ... whereby politicization was always a given. This is precisely what happened in aftermath of Uri - GoI declared and then there should have been a gag order. This is what happened now - ill informed claims of kills. Whatever message was being sent with the strike, gets lost as now, the threshold will be lowered in terms of scale of attack, yet frequency will increase. Eg Jammu grenade attack.
4. The foot in mouth disease which the present dispensation seems to have, undoes all the gains made.
5. No one ever questioned the Armed Forces till the first refrain from present government 'Are you questioning the armed forces' came out. Now? Every tom, dick and harry on twitter is questioning the armed forces themselves.


I have to disagree here, IF Pakistanis had accepted the fate of their F-16's and its pilots. We would not have lost the perception war, no matter what they tried to peddle in the media. The Death of their pilots would have equated everything. No amount of drama would have changed it.

The Difference here is that India is not willing to forget its pilots and its heroes. While Pakistan is willing to bury its own heroes to get a one up on Propaganda. I would prefer loosing a 1000PR battles over such crude behaviour on their own people.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,515
4,615
We lost the perception war because of the following reasons:

1. All parties were on board and during the execution of the operations, not one party made any comment.
2. Amit Shah, in Guwahati, on 26th Feb 19, made a statement that unlike Congress, this time there is a Government that will respond to attack.
3. This opened the can of worms ... whereby politicization was always a given. This is precisely what happened in aftermath of Uri - GoI declared and then there should have been a gag order. This is what happened now - ill informed claims of kills. Whatever message was being sent with the strike, gets lost as now, the threshold will be lowered in terms of scale of attack, yet frequency will increase. Eg Jammu grenade attack.
4. The foot in mouth disease which the present dispensation seems to have, undoes all the gains made.
5. No one ever questioned the Armed Forces till the first refrain from present government 'Are you questioning the armed forces' came out. Now? Every tom, dick and harry on twitter is questioning the armed forces themselves.

The Govt was being challenged to act
By the opposition

So they acted and then took all the credit

Armed forces are only looking at Revenge
After Feb 14

Politics cannot be avoided ,

26/ 11 is a Huge blot on India

Every action now will be Relative to the
In Action of 26/ 11
 
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vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
6,255
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New Delhi
We lost the perception war because of the following reasons:

1. All parties were on board and during the execution of the operations, not one party made any comment.
2. Amit Shah, in Guwahati, on 26th Feb 19, made a statement that unlike Congress, this time there is a Government that will respond to attack.
3. This opened the can of worms ... whereby politicization was always a given. This is precisely what happened in aftermath of Uri - GoI declared and then there should have been a gag order. This is what happened now - ill informed claims of kills. Whatever message was being sent with the strike, gets lost as now, the threshold will be lowered in terms of scale of attack, yet frequency will increase. Eg Jammu grenade attack.
4. The foot in mouth disease which the present dispensation seems to have, undoes all the gains made.
5. No one ever questioned the Armed Forces till the first refrain from present government 'Are you questioning the armed forces' came out. Now? Every tom, dick and harry on twitter is questioning the armed forces themselves.
This a cost we have to pay for being a sham democracy with a Supreme Court which is driven more by western Ideas than Indian. The very first line of our constitution says, "We the people of India that is Bharat, give this constitution to ourselves". The Supreme Court was created under this constitution to safeguard Indian way of life and our social structure. BUT, Supreme court has exceeded its brief and have tried to align Indian society with western values. I want to ask, is it the Supreme Court that we wanted when we created our Constitution?
 
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vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
6,255
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New Delhi
Gentlemen, I have my reasons for calling our democracy a sham. First thru the post is not the way a democracy should work. Democracy is about majority and not minority as we see in our democracy. We have had governments with less than 30% of total vote share in India.
 

NKVD

Active member
Dec 2, 2017
147
181
Delhi/NCR
Gentlemen, I have my reasons for calling our democracy a sham. First thru the post is not the way a democracy should work. Democracy is about majority and not minority as we see in our democracy. We have had governments with less than 30% of total vote share in India.
Multi party system is the reason for this. Will change in a decade when Next Generation Will be more Educated

After 1947 Nehruvian Socialist model doomed India. We Adopted Market economy even Later than Authoritarian Chinese
 
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