News India China Border dispute- News, updates and discussions

Shashank

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Dec 4, 2017
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New visuals show PLA deployment is close to last year’s face-off point and hasn’t thinned down as Indian Army chief Gen. Rawat claimed last week.

New Delhi: Almost five months after India and China agreed to end their tense military face-off in the Himalayan region of Doklam, Beijing has almost completely taken control of the northern side of the disputed plateau, latest satellite images accessed by ThePrint show.

The new images show concrete posts, seven helipads, new trenches and several dozen armoured vehicles close to the point where the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops were locked in a 72-day confrontation last year.

The discovery comes days after Army chief General Bipin Rawat said that China continues to have troops in North Doklam but also added that the deployment had thinned down recently.

However, new satellite imagery accessed by ThePrint from 10 December 2017 shows that the Chinese side is now well entrenched in the area, with heavy road building machinery still present close to the stand-off point.

The face-off was triggered last June after Indian troops prevented Chinese workers backed by the PLA from completing a road that would have given them fast access to the south Doklam area. The Doklam plateau is contested between China and Bhutan, with India also having a strategic interest in keeping the area demilitarised.

These are first images that show the extent of the Chinese deployment at Doklam – and indicate a likely permanent PLA deployment, retaining the capability to construct the contested road at short notice.

Troop strength

The PLA has occupied almost every nook and corner, if not every inch, of the northern side of the plateau. Google Earth imagery clearly shows a large number of troops and equipment in semi-permanent structures under camouflage.

There is at least one complete mechanised regiment of possibly ZBL-09 IFVs or infantry fighting vehicles. There is also a strong possibility of another mechanised regiment under camouflage nets.

Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
Two major parking areas have been observed for tank transporters of smaller size, suggesting their use for mechanised vehicle transport. There are, in total, two regiments’ worth of tank transporters on the Doklam plateau.

There are more than a hundred large troop/equipment-carrying vehicles, or what the military calls ‘B-vehicles’.

At least four large bulldozers and four tippers have also been observed. This indicates a clear intention of pursuing the construction of the road beyond the contested point.

A large number of troops seem to have been kept in tents under very good camouflage, but certainly not good enough for satellite imagery not to spot them.

The observation tower

There is a very tall observation tower, at least two storeys high, constructed with cement concrete less than 10 metres from the most forward trench occupied by the Indian Army.


New trouble for India: China fully occupies Doklam, with armoured vehicles and 7 helipads
 

Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
866
946
Ban galore
A rebuttal but not sure how reliable.

It’s the same old ‘renewed aggression at Doklam’ lie in a brand new ‘The Print’ package

It wasn’t too long ago, in October 2017 when we debunked the lies of renewed Chinese aggression at Doklam, but for some unexplained reason, this lie just doesn’t seem to die down.

I had explained that last time that for any Chinese troop build up to be of grave concern for India, the troop build up has to south of Sinchela Ridgeline.



As long as the PLA build up, or presence is not south of Sinchela Ridgeline and not between Batangla and Gyanmochen, it is preposterous to say that there is ‘renewed aggression’ by China. The dispute, as seen from the image, lies in South Doklam. North Doklam and beyond North Doklam, the Yadong area, is undisputed Chinese Territory and China is well within their democratic right to increase PLA presence in their own territory.

During the stand-off between India and China, India had objected to road construction in that area marked between blue and red lines. After disengagement, the status quo was agreed at 150m and that has not been breached.

The Print article claims that China has “occupied North Doklam” with armoured vehicles and 7 helipads. For the layman’s benefit, this is like saying India has “occupied” Sikkim by increasing the presence of its own troops in its own territory. As mentioned before, North Doklam and the area beyond North Doklam, Yadong, are undisputed Chinese territory and China can do as they please. One wonders then, what does The Print mean when it says that this poses “New trouble for India”?

PLA presence has always been there in Yadong and North Doklam and this phenomenon is nothing new. Increased presence, if at all, is of no relevance as long as the 150m status quo is maintained both by the Indian Army and PLA.

The Print article very cleverly says :

“The new images show concrete posts, seven helipads, new trenches and several dozen armoured vehicles close to the point where the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops were locked in a 72-day confrontation last year.

The discovery comes days after Army chief General Bipin Rawat said that China continues to have troops in North Doklam but also added that the deployment had thinned down recently.

However, new satellite imagery accessed by ThePrint from 10 December 2017 shows that the Chinese side is now well entrenched in the area, with heavy road building machinery still present close to the stand-off point”.

The author insinuates that the so-called build up of PLA is “close to the point where India and China were locked in a stand-off”. In an area like that of the Doklam plateau, a few kilometres can potentially take days to travel, hence this assertion doesn’t hold water unless the author gives the exact location of troop build up and proves that it is south of sinchela ridge.

Then, he goes on to quote the Army Chief, General Bipin Rawat who said that Chinese troops are present in North Doklam but the deployment has thinned. The author follows that by saying there is heavy machine deployment “close to the stand-off point”.

The author and The Print treacherously omit that North Doklam is Chinese territory and by repeatedly mentioning how it’s “close to stand-off point”, insinuate that there is already renewed aggression, an assertion that cannot be further from the truth.

A very interesting portion of the article says :

“A large number of troops seem to have been kept in tents under very good camouflage, but certainly not good enough for satellite imagery not to spot them”.

Firstly, the stand-off was triggered because of ‘pakka road construction in the disputed site’. When the author seeks to fear monger based on PLA troops, living in kaccha tents in their own territory, one can only be thoroughly amused. I wish someone also informed the author, that if the troop presence can be so easily tracked by commercial satellite imagery, the troops are probably not trying to hide at all. It’s their territory and they don’t feel the need to.

After a barrage of baseless assumptions, the author finally concludes with the central point :

“New roads have been constructed to cover the North Doklam plateau. Work is in progress to widen existing roads. Most of the roads have communication trenches running along them”.

The author ominously says that new roads have been constructed in North Doklam and there is work in progress to widen the existing roads. Again, to reiterate, they can build roads in North Doklam since it is undisputed Chinese territory. As far as the widening of existing roads are concerned, it is again not something that India objects to considering it’s in their own territory. The stand-off was a result of attempts to make new pakka roads in the disputed area, not widening of old roads in undisputed areas.

This embarrassingly oft-repeated lie was also responded to by National Security Analyst Nitin Gokhale.

Trouble? I would have been surprised had the Chinese NOT done this. North Dolam is Chinese territory. They are welcome to deploy, build, operate. Things would be put in perspective if we were to see Indian deployment—and readiness—facing the PLA. India has more permanent presence ThePrint on Twitter
— Nitin A. Gokhale (@nitingokhale) January 17, 2018
Others pointed out that the Chinese are in their own territory and if they have 2 Battalions in their own territory, we have 2 divisions in ours, looking over them.

Misleading. China has “occupied” their part of the valley. Have not constructed the road tht India objected to. And there r 2 div of Indian Army looking down on the chinese “occupation” army of 2 battalions:) 卫纳夜格@Raj on Twitter
— Somnath Mukherjee (@somnath1978) January 17, 2018
Just as the last time this lie was countered in October 2017, this time too the propagandists masquerading as journalists came out to express their glee. Now, either they are truly ignorant and have no idea that this is a lie, or they know this is a lie but would like to further it anyway, hoping, it hurts PM Modi’s image, even if it hurts India’s image in the process. Either way, the jubilance was discomforting.

Now what, mitron? ThePrint on Twitter
— Sreenivasan Jain (@SreenivasanJain) January 17, 2018
These elements celebrating a lie, hoping that it were the truth, have conveniently ignored not only facts, but even the Army Chief General Bipin Rawat’s statement regarding the issue. The Chief said that they are present in North Doklam but the numbers have thinned down. That they have carried out infrastructure development, most of it temporary in nature. He said if they are there, we are also there (presumably, the chief meant that if they are present in their own area, we are present in ours too). He said if they come, India will face them but the mechanism of dialogue and to resolve such issues is functioning smoothly and he doesn’t expect any major trouble. But one has to be prepared.

The questions that plague this entire fiasco is two-pronged.

  1. Why is this lie being regurgitated over and over again, with ambiguous language and wild assertions so as to confuse the reader into believing that there might indeed be some renewed tension between China and India. Every time this lie has been regurgitated, the articles have deliberately or ignorantly missed mentioning that the PLA presence is in China’s own territory and not in Indian or disputed territory.
  2. Are the journalists and politicians who seem to celebrate every time this lie is regurgitated aware of the ramifications such misreportage can have? China is known to be extremely well versed with psychological warfare and perhaps for the very first time, India is standing toe and toe and flexing its muscles right back. These attempts to sow seeds of doubt and weaken the psychology of the nation hurts not China, but India.
Perhaps the most hilarious excuse for this kind of rabble rousing is that they are trying to “warn the army” to “stay alert”. I only wish they knew that the army knows it’s job quite well, and perhaps, they don’t need to concoct lies simply to get the army to do their job.

One thus wonders, whose side are they on?

It's the same old 'renewed aggression at Doklam' lie in a brand new 'The Print' package
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
12,638
8,158
Mumbai
A rebuttal but not sure how reliable.

It’s the same old ‘renewed aggression at Doklam’ lie in a brand new ‘The Print’ package

It wasn’t too long ago, in October 2017 when we debunked the lies of renewed Chinese aggression at Doklam, but for some unexplained reason, this lie just doesn’t seem to die down.

I had explained that last time that for any Chinese troop build up to be of grave concern for India, the troop build up has to south of Sinchela Ridgeline.



As long as the PLA build up, or presence is not south of Sinchela Ridgeline and not between Batangla and Gyanmochen, it is preposterous to say that there is ‘renewed aggression’ by China. The dispute, as seen from the image, lies in South Doklam. North Doklam and beyond North Doklam, the Yadong area, is undisputed Chinese Territory and China is well within their democratic right to increase PLA presence in their own territory.

During the stand-off between India and China, India had objected to road construction in that area marked between blue and red lines. After disengagement, the status quo was agreed at 150m and that has not been breached.

The Print article claims that China has “occupied North Doklam” with armoured vehicles and 7 helipads. For the layman’s benefit, this is like saying India has “occupied” Sikkim by increasing the presence of its own troops in its own territory. As mentioned before, North Doklam and the area beyond North Doklam, Yadong, are undisputed Chinese territory and China can do as they please. One wonders then, what does The Print mean when it says that this poses “New trouble for India”?

PLA presence has always been there in Yadong and North Doklam and this phenomenon is nothing new. Increased presence, if at all, is of no relevance as long as the 150m status quo is maintained both by the Indian Army and PLA.

The Print article very cleverly says :

“The new images show concrete posts, seven helipads, new trenches and several dozen armoured vehicles close to the point where the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops were locked in a 72-day confrontation last year.

The discovery comes days after Army chief General Bipin Rawat said that China continues to have troops in North Doklam but also added that the deployment had thinned down recently.

However, new satellite imagery accessed by ThePrint from 10 December 2017 shows that the Chinese side is now well entrenched in the area, with heavy road building machinery still present close to the stand-off point”.

The author insinuates that the so-called build up of PLA is “close to the point where India and China were locked in a stand-off”. In an area like that of the Doklam plateau, a few kilometres can potentially take days to travel, hence this assertion doesn’t hold water unless the author gives the exact location of troop build up and proves that it is south of sinchela ridge.

Then, he goes on to quote the Army Chief, General Bipin Rawat who said that Chinese troops are present in North Doklam but the deployment has thinned. The author follows that by saying there is heavy machine deployment “close to the stand-off point”.

The author and The Print treacherously omit that North Doklam is Chinese territory and by repeatedly mentioning how it’s “close to stand-off point”, insinuate that there is already renewed aggression, an assertion that cannot be further from the truth.

A very interesting portion of the article says :

“A large number of troops seem to have been kept in tents under very good camouflage, but certainly not good enough for satellite imagery not to spot them”.

Firstly, the stand-off was triggered because of ‘pakka road construction in the disputed site’. When the author seeks to fear monger based on PLA troops, living in kaccha tents in their own territory, one can only be thoroughly amused. I wish someone also informed the author, that if the troop presence can be so easily tracked by commercial satellite imagery, the troops are probably not trying to hide at all. It’s their territory and they don’t feel the need to.

After a barrage of baseless assumptions, the author finally concludes with the central point :

“New roads have been constructed to cover the North Doklam plateau. Work is in progress to widen existing roads. Most of the roads have communication trenches running along them”.

The author ominously says that new roads have been constructed in North Doklam and there is work in progress to widen the existing roads. Again, to reiterate, they can build roads in North Doklam since it is undisputed Chinese territory. As far as the widening of existing roads are concerned, it is again not something that India objects to considering it’s in their own territory. The stand-off was a result of attempts to make new pakka roads in the disputed area, not widening of old roads in undisputed areas.

This embarrassingly oft-repeated lie was also responded to by National Security Analyst Nitin Gokhale.

Trouble? I would have been surprised had the Chinese NOT done this. North Dolam is Chinese territory. They are welcome to deploy, build, operate. Things would be put in perspective if we were to see Indian deployment—and readiness—facing the PLA. India has more permanent presence ThePrint on Twitter

— Nitin A. Gokhale (@nitingokhale) January 17, 2018
Others pointed out that the Chinese are in their own territory and if they have 2 Battalions in their own territory, we have 2 divisions in ours, looking over them.

Misleading. China has “occupied” their part of the valley. Have not constructed the road tht India objected to. And there r 2 div of Indian Army looking down on the chinese “occupation” army of 2 battalions:)卫纳夜格@Raj on Twitter

— Somnath Mukherjee (@somnath1978) January 17, 2018
Just as the last time this lie was countered in October 2017, this time too the propagandists masquerading as journalists came out to express their glee. Now, either they are truly ignorant and have no idea that this is a lie, or they know this is a lie but would like to further it anyway, hoping, it hurts PM Modi’s image, even if it hurts India’s image in the process. Either way, the jubilance was discomforting.

Now what, mitron? ThePrint on Twitter

— Sreenivasan Jain (@SreenivasanJain) January 17, 2018
These elements celebrating a lie, hoping that it were the truth, have conveniently ignored not only facts, but even the Army Chief General Bipin Rawat’s statement regarding the issue. The Chief said that they are present in North Doklam but the numbers have thinned down. That they have carried out infrastructure development, most of it temporary in nature. He said if they are there, we are also there (presumably, the chief meant that if they are present in their own area, we are present in ours too). He said if they come, India will face them but the mechanism of dialogue and to resolve such issues is functioning smoothly and he doesn’t expect any major trouble. But one has to be prepared.

The questions that plague this entire fiasco is two-pronged.

  1. Why is this lie being regurgitated over and over again, with ambiguous language and wild assertions so as to confuse the reader into believing that there might indeed be some renewed tension between China and India. Every time this lie has been regurgitated, the articles have deliberately or ignorantly missed mentioning that the PLA presence is in China’s own territory and not in Indian or disputed territory.
  2. Are the journalists and politicians who seem to celebrate every time this lie is regurgitated aware of the ramifications such misreportage can have? China is known to be extremely well versed with psychological warfare and perhaps for the very first time, India is standing toe and toe and flexing its muscles right back. These attempts to sow seeds of doubt and weaken the psychology of the nation hurts not China, but India.
Perhaps the most hilarious excuse for this kind of rabble rousing is that they are trying to “warn the army” to “stay alert”. I only wish they knew that the army knows it’s job quite well, and perhaps, they don’t need to concoct lies simply to get the army to do their job.

One thus wonders, whose side are they on?

It's the same old 'renewed aggression at Doklam' lie in a brand new 'The Print' package

If the inference drawn from this article is what one fears it to be , its a very sad day indeed for all of us. It seems as if in their eagerness to undermine Modi , anything and everything is fair . I don't know what's worse , the " fact "as alleged in the OP that the Chinese have renewed their attempts at building a firm road leading to faster incursion by the Chinese when they do wish to prosecute an invasion in our part of the valley or juvenile and in the final analysis dangerous attempts by a section so direly opposed to the current regime that they literally have no qualms about cutting their nose to spite their face .
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Aravind

Infowarrior

Active member
Dec 5, 2017
429
132
India
New trouble for India: China occupies North Doklam, with armoured vehicles & 7 helipads
Col. Vinayak Bhat (retd) 17 January, 2018


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint


New visuals show PLA deployment is close to last year’s face-off point and hasn’t thinned down as Indian Army chief Gen. Rawat claimed last week.

New Delhi: Almost five months after India and China agreed to end their tense military face-off in the Himalayan region of Doklam, Beijing has almost completely taken control of the northern side of the disputed plateau, latest satellite images accessed by ThePrint show.

The new images show concrete posts, seven helipads, new trenches and several dozen armoured vehicles close to the point where the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops were locked in a 72-day confrontation last year.

The discovery comes days after Army chief General Bipin Rawat said that China continues to have troops in North Doklam but also added that the deployment had thinned down recently.

However, new satellite imagery accessed by ThePrint from 10 December 2017 shows that the Chinese side is now well entrenched in the area, with heavy road building machinery still present close to the stand-off point.

The face-off was triggered last June after Indian troops prevented Chinese workers backed by the PLA from completing a road that would have given them fast access to the south Doklam area. The Doklam plateau is contested between China and Bhutan, with India also having a strategic interest in keeping the area demilitarised.

These are first images that show the extent of the Chinese deployment at Doklam – and indicate a likely permanent PLA deployment, retaining the capability to construct the contested road at short notice.

Troop strength

The PLA has occupied almost every nook and corner, if not every inch, of the northern side of the plateau. Google Earth imagery clearly shows a large number of troops and equipment in semi-permanent structures under camouflage.

There is at least one complete mechanised regiment of possibly ZBL-09 IFVs or infantry fighting vehicles. There is also a strong possibility of another mechanised regiment under camouflage nets.


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
Two major parking areas have been observed for tank transporters of smaller size, suggesting their use for mechanised vehicle transport. There are, in total, two regiments’ worth of tank transporters on the Doklam plateau.

There are more than a hundred large troop/equipment-carrying vehicles, or what the military calls ‘B-vehicles’.

At least four large bulldozers and four tippers have also been observed. This indicates a clear intention of pursuing the construction of the road beyond the contested point.

A large number of troops seem to have been kept in tents under very good camouflage, but certainly not good enough for satellite imagery not to spot them.

The observation tower

There is a very tall observation tower, at least two storeys high, constructed with cement concrete less than 10 metres from the most forward trench occupied by the Indian Army.


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
The elevation profile of this tower suggests that it can observe the entire Gnathang Valley from Kupup to Zuluk. The entire movement of the Indian Army beyond Kupup can also be very clearly observed by the PLA.

New posts

A large number of fighting posts have been created on almost every hillock on North Doklam plateau. These posts consist of double-layered communication trenches prepared for all round defence.

Numerous areas have been dug out, possibly to accommodate troops under camouflage at a later date. One of the dug-out areas is quite large, suggesting that the PLA will construct an extremely tall observation tower very soon.

Helipads

At least seven new helipads have been constructed with permanent cemented round bases. The diameter of the helipads is 25 metres, suggesting that the largest helicopters in the PLA inventory will be able to land here.


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
Road construction

New roads have been constructed to cover the North Doklam plateau. Work is in progress to widen existing roads. Most of the roads have communication trenches running along them.

Colonel Vinayak Bhat (retd) is a Military Intelligence veteran of the Indian Army with vast experience of satellite imagery analysis. He has worked as a Chinese interpreter and is a specialist on PLA and Pakistan’s armed forces. He tweets @rajfortyseven
New trouble for India: China fully occupies Doklam, with armoured vehicles and 7 helipads


@bonobashi @Tatvamasi @nair
Why this is not featured in mainstream media ?
 
Last edited:

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Col. Vinayak Bhat (retd) 17 January, 2018


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint


New visuals show PLA deployment is close to last year’s face-off point and hasn’t thinned down as Indian Army chief Gen. Rawat claimed last week.

New Delhi: Almost five months after India and China agreed to end their tense military face-off in the Himalayan region of Doklam, Beijing has almost completely taken control of the northern side of the disputed plateau, latest satellite images accessed by ThePrint show.

The new images show concrete posts, seven helipads, new trenches and several dozen armoured vehicles close to the point where the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops were locked in a 72-day confrontation last year.

The discovery comes days after Army chief General Bipin Rawat said that China continues to have troops in North Doklam but also added that the deployment had thinned down recently.

However, new satellite imagery accessed by ThePrint from 10 December 2017 shows that the Chinese side is now well entrenched in the area, with heavy road building machinery still present close to the stand-off point.

The face-off was triggered last June after Indian troops prevented Chinese workers backed by the PLA from completing a road that would have given them fast access to the south Doklam area. The Doklam plateau is contested between China and Bhutan, with India also having a strategic interest in keeping the area demilitarised.

These are first images that show the extent of the Chinese deployment at Doklam – and indicate a likely permanent PLA deployment, retaining the capability to construct the contested road at short notice.

Troop strength

The PLA has occupied almost every nook and corner, if not every inch, of the northern side of the plateau. Google Earth imagery clearly shows a large number of troops and equipment in semi-permanent structures under camouflage.

There is at least one complete mechanised regiment of possibly ZBL-09 IFVs or infantry fighting vehicles. There is also a strong possibility of another mechanised regiment under camouflage nets.


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
Two major parking areas have been observed for tank transporters of smaller size, suggesting their use for mechanised vehicle transport. There are, in total, two regiments’ worth of tank transporters on the Doklam plateau.

There are more than a hundred large troop/equipment-carrying vehicles, or what the military calls ‘B-vehicles’.

At least four large bulldozers and four tippers have also been observed. This indicates a clear intention of pursuing the construction of the road beyond the contested point.

A large number of troops seem to have been kept in tents under very good camouflage, but certainly not good enough for satellite imagery not to spot them.

The observation tower

There is a very tall observation tower, at least two storeys high, constructed with cement concrete less than 10 metres from the most forward trench occupied by the Indian Army.


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
The elevation profile of this tower suggests that it can observe the entire Gnathang Valley from Kupup to Zuluk. The entire movement of the Indian Army beyond Kupup can also be very clearly observed by the PLA.

New posts

A large number of fighting posts have been created on almost every hillock on North Doklam plateau. These posts consist of double-layered communication trenches prepared for all round defence.

Numerous areas have been dug out, possibly to accommodate troops under camouflage at a later date. One of the dug-out areas is quite large, suggesting that the PLA will construct an extremely tall observation tower very soon.

Helipads

At least seven new helipads have been constructed with permanent cemented round bases. The diameter of the helipads is 25 metres, suggesting that the largest helicopters in the PLA inventory will be able to land here.


Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
Road construction

New roads have been constructed to cover the North Doklam plateau. Work is in progress to widen existing roads. Most of the roads have communication trenches running along them.

Colonel Vinayak Bhat (retd) is a Military Intelligence veteran of the Indian Army with vast experience of satellite imagery analysis. He has worked as a Chinese interpreter and is a specialist on PLA and Pakistan’s armed forces. He tweets @rajfortyseven
New trouble for India: China fully occupies Doklam, with armoured vehicles and 7 helipads


@bonobashi @Tatvamasi @nair
It is a strain to believe that the Army itself neither knew about this while it was going on, nor failed to react due to ignorance, rather than settled policy.
 

Infowarrior

Active member
Dec 5, 2017
429
132
India
It is a strain to believe that the Army itself neither knew about this while it was going on, nor failed to react due to ignorance, rather than settled policy.
It is not a matter of Army not knowing about this, it is about mainstream media not reporting about this faithfully for the fear of political damage to BJP. Basically China has circumvented the need for the pre-built road to south Doklam, China has achieved 95% without building the Doklam road. It has built the infrastructure and stationed forces to complete the road with almost 95% probability.

Is politics(in case of BJP) all about selecting a particular topic, giving it a particular flavour and communicating it to target masses. Which basically is manipulating the masses by twisting facts in a certain way. Politics is 99% manipulation 1% leadership. Every attempt is being done to spread mis-information and sweep things under the carpet.

A rebuttal but not sure how reliable.

It’s the same old ‘renewed aggression at Doklam’ lie in a brand new ‘The Print’ package

It wasn’t too long ago, in October 2017 when we debunked the lies of renewed Chinese aggression at Doklam, but for some unexplained reason, this lie just doesn’t seem to die down.

I had explained that last time that for any Chinese troop build up to be of grave concern for India, the troop build up has to south of Sinchela Ridgeline.



As long as the PLA build up, or presence is not south of Sinchela Ridgeline and not between Batangla and Gyanmochen, it is preposterous to say that there is ‘renewed aggression’ by China. The dispute, as seen from the image, lies in South Doklam. North Doklam and beyond North Doklam, the Yadong area, is undisputed Chinese Territory and China is well within their democratic right to increase PLA presence in their own territory.

During the stand-off between India and China, India had objected to road construction in that area marked between blue and red lines. After disengagement, the status quo was agreed at 150m and that has not been breached.

The Print article claims that China has “occupied North Doklam” with armoured vehicles and 7 helipads. For the layman’s benefit, this is like saying India has “occupied” Sikkim by increasing the presence of its own troops in its own territory. As mentioned before, North Doklam and the area beyond North Doklam, Yadong, are undisputed Chinese territory and China can do as they please. One wonders then, what does The Print mean when it says that this poses “New trouble for India”?

PLA presence has always been there in Yadong and North Doklam and this phenomenon is nothing new. Increased presence, if at all, is of no relevance as long as the 150m status quo is maintained both by the Indian Army and PLA.

The Print article very cleverly says :

“The new images show concrete posts, seven helipads, new trenches and several dozen armoured vehicles close to the point where the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops were locked in a 72-day confrontation last year.

The discovery comes days after Army chief General Bipin Rawat said that China continues to have troops in North Doklam but also added that the deployment had thinned down recently.

However, new satellite imagery accessed by ThePrint from 10 December 2017 shows that the Chinese side is now well entrenched in the area, with heavy road building machinery still present close to the stand-off point”.

The author insinuates that the so-called build up of PLA is “close to the point where India and China were locked in a stand-off”. In an area like that of the Doklam plateau, a few kilometres can potentially take days to travel, hence this assertion doesn’t hold water unless the author gives the exact location of troop build up and proves that it is south of sinchela ridge.

Then, he goes on to quote the Army Chief, General Bipin Rawat who said that Chinese troops are present in North Doklam but the deployment has thinned. The author follows that by saying there is heavy machine deployment “close to the stand-off point”.

The author and The Print treacherously omit that North Doklam is Chinese territory and by repeatedly mentioning how it’s “close to stand-off point”, insinuate that there is already renewed aggression, an assertion that cannot be further from the truth.

A very interesting portion of the article says :

“A large number of troops seem to have been kept in tents under very good camouflage, but certainly not good enough for satellite imagery not to spot them”.

Firstly, the stand-off was triggered because of ‘pakka road construction in the disputed site’. When the author seeks to fear monger based on PLA troops, living in kaccha tents in their own territory, one can only be thoroughly amused. I wish someone also informed the author, that if the troop presence can be so easily tracked by commercial satellite imagery, the troops are probably not trying to hide at all. It’s their territory and they don’t feel the need to.

After a barrage of baseless assumptions, the author finally concludes with the central point :

“New roads have been constructed to cover the North Doklam plateau. Work is in progress to widen existing roads. Most of the roads have communication trenches running along them”.

The author ominously says that new roads have been constructed in North Doklam and there is work in progress to widen the existing roads. Again, to reiterate, they can build roads in North Doklam since it is undisputed Chinese territory. As far as the widening of existing roads are concerned, it is again not something that India objects to considering it’s in their own territory. The stand-off was a result of attempts to make new pakka roads in the disputed area, not widening of old roads in undisputed areas.

This embarrassingly oft-repeated lie was also responded to by National Security Analyst Nitin Gokhale.

Trouble? I would have been surprised had the Chinese NOT done this. North Dolam is Chinese territory. They are welcome to deploy, build, operate. Things would be put in perspective if we were to see Indian deployment—and readiness—facing the PLA. India has more permanent presence ThePrint on Twitter

— Nitin A. Gokhale (@nitingokhale) January 17, 2018
Others pointed out that the Chinese are in their own territory and if they have 2 Battalions in their own territory, we have 2 divisions in ours, looking over them.

Misleading. China has “occupied” their part of the valley. Have not constructed the road tht India objected to. And there r 2 div of Indian Army looking down on the chinese “occupation” army of 2 battalions:)卫纳夜格@Raj on Twitter

— Somnath Mukherjee (@somnath1978) January 17, 2018
Just as the last time this lie was countered in October 2017, this time too the propagandists masquerading as journalists came out to express their glee. Now, either they are truly ignorant and have no idea that this is a lie, or they know this is a lie but would like to further it anyway, hoping, it hurts PM Modi’s image, even if it hurts India’s image in the process. Either way, the jubilance was discomforting.

Now what, mitron? ThePrint on Twitter

— Sreenivasan Jain (@SreenivasanJain) January 17, 2018
These elements celebrating a lie, hoping that it were the truth, have conveniently ignored not only facts, but even the Army Chief General Bipin Rawat’s statement regarding the issue. The Chief said that they are present in North Doklam but the numbers have thinned down. That they have carried out infrastructure development, most of it temporary in nature. He said if they are there, we are also there (presumably, the chief meant that if they are present in their own area, we are present in ours too). He said if they come, India will face them but the mechanism of dialogue and to resolve such issues is functioning smoothly and he doesn’t expect any major trouble. But one has to be prepared.

The questions that plague this entire fiasco is two-pronged.

  1. Why is this lie being regurgitated over and over again, with ambiguous language and wild assertions so as to confuse the reader into believing that there might indeed be some renewed tension between China and India. Every time this lie has been regurgitated, the articles have deliberately or ignorantly missed mentioning that the PLA presence is in China’s own territory and not in Indian or disputed territory.
  2. Are the journalists and politicians who seem to celebrate every time this lie is regurgitated aware of the ramifications such misreportage can have? China is known to be extremely well versed with psychological warfare and perhaps for the very first time, India is standing toe and toe and flexing its muscles right back. These attempts to sow seeds of doubt and weaken the psychology of the nation hurts not China, but India.
Perhaps the most hilarious excuse for this kind of rabble rousing is that they are trying to “warn the army” to “stay alert”. I only wish they knew that the army knows it’s job quite well, and perhaps, they don’t need to concoct lies simply to get the army to do their job.

One thus wonders, whose side are they on?

It's the same old 'renewed aggression at Doklam' lie in a brand new 'The Print' package
First article was written by Colonel Vinayak Bhat (retd) is a Military Intelligence veteran of the Indian Army with vast experience of satellite imagery analysis. He has worked as a Chinese interpreter and is a specialist on PLA and Pakistan’s armed forces. He is a neutral guy not related to BJP or Congress.

Second article which you posted is in the opinion section of opindia.com, written by a no noname unsubtledesi. This unsubtledesi's all previous articles have BJP flavor and attacking congress.

Do you have any professional and credible article countering the article by Col. Bhat. ?

Considering 1962 outcome, China has built up all the resources to make this road with 95% probability.
 

dray

Rain Man
Dec 1, 2017
151
366
India
It is not a matter of Army not knowing about this, it is about mainstream media not reporting about this faithfully for the fear of political damage to BJP. Basically China has circumvented the need for the pre-built road to south Doklam, China has achieved 95% without building the Doklam road. It has built the infrastructure and stationed forces to complete the road with almost 95% probability.

Is politics(in case of BJP) all about selecting a particular topic, giving it a particular flavour and communicating it to target masses. Which basically is manipulating the masses by twisting facts in a certain way. Politics is 99% manipulation 1% leadership. Every attempt is being done to spread mis-information and sweep things under the carpet.


First article was written by Colonel Vinayak Bhat (retd) is a Military Intelligence veteran of the Indian Army with vast experience of satellite imagery analysis. He has worked as a Chinese interpreter and is a specialist on PLA and Pakistan’s armed forces. He is a neutral guy not related to BJP or Congress.

Second article which you posted is in the opinion section of opindia.com, written by a no noname unsubtledesi. This unsubtledesi's all previous articles have BJP flavor and attacking congress.

Do you have any professional and credible article countering the article by Col. Bhat. ?

Considering 1962 outcome, China has built up all the resources to make this road with 95% probability.
So what exactly is the issue here?
 
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Shajida Khan

Senior member
Dec 27, 2017
1,524
1,579
Seattle
So there is this app called google earth pro, and it lets you look on historical images as well. Lets put it to some use, shall we?

The images I have are from 2014 and dec 2017. Unfortunately all the images in between are either covered in snow or occluded by clouds.

Remember Left is India and Right is Chinese controlled Bhutanese territory.

1 Latest Dec 9 2017

Chinese controlled Bhutan focused




Screen Shot 2018-01-27 at 12.28.01 AM.jpg


India Focused

Screen Shot 2018-01-27 at 12.35.12 AM.jpg


Now 2014 Images

Chinese controlled Bhutan Focused

Screen Shot 2018-01-27 at 12.28.14 AM.jpg


India Focused

Screen Shot 2018-01-27 at 12.36.12 AM.jpg



Its pretty clear both the countries have been pretty active in the region. I cannot tell whats being deployed in the area from these images but sure as hell Indian activity in the region is no less. Plus, India has a lot more vegetation cover in the area. I wonder if that is being used to hide military assets from Satellites and Drones.

The entire narrative from these journalists that China is active in the region while Indian side is sitting still is very very doubtful.

@Milspec @Hellfire @AbRaj @Levina -- Please tag others.
 
Last edited:

indiandragon

Member
Dec 12, 2017
48
37
india
So there is this app called google earth pro, and it lets you look on historical images as well. Lets put it to some use, shall we?

The images I have are from 2014 and dec 2017. Unfortunately all the images in between are either covered in snow or occluded by clouds.

Remember Left is India and Right is China.

1 Latest Dec 9 2017

China focused




View attachment 1611

India Focused

View attachment 1612

Now 2014 Images

China Focused

View attachment 1613

India Focused

View attachment 1614


Its pretty clear both the countries have been pretty active in the region. I cannot tell whats being deployed in the area from these images but sure as hell Indian activity in the region is no less. Plus, India has a lot more vegetation cover in the area. I wonder if that is being used to hide military assets from Satellites and Drones.

The entire narrative from these journalists that China is active in the region while Indian side is sitting still is very very doubtful.

@Milspec @Hellfire @AbRaj @Levina -- Please tag others.
what you have shown as china side is not china side its actually bhutan side..... please check with google earth again
 

Parul

Red Devil
Dec 2, 2017
1,304
1,227
Voronezh
Defence Minister Sitharaman says China building helipads, sentry posts in Doklam area
Updated Mar 05, 2018 | 20:19 IST | Times Now Digital
Sitharaman's reply today came in response to a question on whether satellite images have revealed that China has constructed seven helipads in Doklam besides deploying tanks and missiles in the area.



Photo Courtesy: PTI

Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman

New Delhi: Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Monday said that Indian and Chinese troops have "redeployed" themselves away from Doklam face-off site and Beijing has undertaken construction of helipads, sentry posts and trenches for its military. Replying to a question on the issue in Rajya Sabha, the defence minister said, "Post disengagement from the face-off in 2017, troops of both sides have redeployed themselves away from their respective positions at the face-off site. The strength of both sides have been reduced."

Junior defence minister Subhash Bhamre, last week, said the situation along India's border with China is "sensitive" and it has potential to escalate. Sitharaman's reply today came in response to a question on whether satellite images have revealed that China has constructed seven helipads in Doklam besides deploying tanks and missiles in the area.

Times Now
 

vsdoc

Banned
Feb 14, 2018
1,878
330
my cave
It is a strain to believe that the Army itself neither knew about this while it was going on, nor failed to react due to ignorance, rather than settled policy.
The army sees and hears everything.

A disturbing trend is now emerging.

Kargil under NDA I.

Doklam under NDA II.

The question needs to be asked. Is there a capability or an ideological deficit here.

Cheers, Doc
 
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