FCAS Program, Specification, development

[Rajput Lion]

SCAF is actually a system of systems of which NGF is the fighter jet component. Last year itself i told here that NGF of france is in same category of AMCA and with similar objectives. AMCA still is work in progress and France can collaborate with India on AMCA mk 2 and cancel NGF. AMCA mk 2 can very well serve as NGF component in french SCAF program.
Now coming to heavy weight fighter, Su 30mki has payload capacity of 8 tonnes and AMCA has that of 7 tonnes so AMCA can easily replace Su 30mki.
Now, the best option for france is partner with india in AMCA mk 2 and adopt it as NGF and complete its SCAF program alone. This will be timely & cost effective for them. Simultaneously, India and France can collaborate on initial R&D for Espadon which is lacking funding for far futuristic program.

When fueled and armed for the same mission, no 'medium or light' weight fighter can beat MKI. Only a heavy-weight fighter can do that. Plus in stealth configuration, AMCA has only 1.5 tonne IWB, IIRC! We need our NGF/NGAD to have at least 6-7 tonnes IWB capability and over 10 tonnes of internal fuel. That will require a much larger size than what our AMCA is envisaged today.

@randomradio

Completely agree

 

[Arpuism]

When fueled and armed for the same mission, no 'medium or light' weight fighter can beat MKI. Only a heavy-weight fighter can do that. Plus in stealth configuration, AMCA has only 1.5 tonne IWB, IIRC! We need our NGF/NGAD to have at least 6-7 tonnes IWB capability and over 10 tonnes of internal fuel. That will require a much larger size than what our AMCA is envisaged today.

@randomradio

Completely agree

Su 30 mki is currently the longest range fighter of IAF but in future AMCA mk 2 will have similar range thats why it will replace Su 30 mki. This is because of two reasons:
1) AMCA mk 2 engines will be atleast 20% more fuel efficient than those of Su 30 mki.
2) AMCA mk 2 due to supercruise ability will cover 40% more distance in the same time period.
The above effectively negates the higher fuel carrying capacity of Su 30 mki.
Now coming to NGAD, US enemies are far located but ours are neighbours so, we dont need such super heavy fighters as we can use land launched tactical missiles on them.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Su 30 mki is currently the longest range fighter of IAF but in future AMCA mk 2 will have similar range thats why it will replace Su 30 mki. This is because of two reasons:
1) AMCA mk 2 engines will be atleast 20% more fuel efficient than those of Su 30 mki.

HAL and MIDHANI are looking to enhance both the performance cum efficiency(along with TBO) of AL-31FP. So, MKI still 'may' retain the long-legs advantage.

2) AMCA mk 2 due to supercruise ability will cover 40% more distance in the same time period.
The above effectively negates the higher fuel carrying capacity of Su 30 mki.

Supercruise is used to reach battle space quickly, but you need fuel load when the real fight begins. MKI has ability to harass most light/medium fighters in this regard.

Now coming to NGAD, US enemies are far located but ours are neighbours so, we dont need such super heavy fighters as we can use land launched tactical missiles on them.

Having long endurance has many advantages especially when you are short on force multipliers like tankers. MKI has 10 tonnes internal fuel plus 8.5 tonnes max weapons load capability. We need Su-57/J-20/F-22 sized(or bigger) VLO fighter to fully replace it.

About AMCA MK2 replacing MKI, well even Rafale can replace MKI 1 for 1. But having a heavy-weight air dominance fighter has its own advantages. Look at PLAAF, they are inducting J-20s in dollops while J-35 is just reserved for PLA-N. VVS also has the same ratio of heavy-weights vs medium/light weight fighters.

Anyways, this is just my opinion that we need a 35+ ton VLO fighter to completely replace MKI. If AMCA MK2 fully replaces MKI then good for us

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

I'd like to give you an extract from a speech by an American colonel, Colonel Matthew, who has 3700 hours of combat experience and has carried out 35-hour B2 missions from America to Iraq. As it was in French (which he speaks very well) I copied what he said and translated it.

The extract from the speech starts at 2:12:31 :

Moi je viens d'un environnement furtif, vous avez deux formes de furtivité, vous avez la furtivité passive et active. Les Américains, on a beaucoup investis dans la furtivité passive, pendant des années et des années, en commençant avec le SR-71, ensuite vous avez le F-117, le B2, le F-35, le F-22, mais je crois que c'était une erreur, parce qu'on a oublié la guerre électronique, et vous la France, vous avez continué dans la guerre électronique, c'est un de vos éléments, je dirais clé, dont vous êtes très très, je dirais presque maître, nous il faut, les Américains, que l'on revienne là dessus, vous, la France, vous avez, vous savez très bien que la furtivité dans sens des matériaux, c'est important, et je pense qu'on le verra dans le SCAF, mais ça c'est un changement aussi qu'on va avoir, mais je reviendrais là dessus, la chose à se rappeler c'est que les deux sont important et les deux doivent être intégrés dans un système pour que celui ci ait du succès.

Translation

I come from a stealthy environment, you have two forms of stealth, you have passive and active stealth. The Americans have invested heavily in passive stealth for years and years, starting with the SR-71, then the F-117, the B2, the F-35 and the F-22, but I think that was a mistake, because we forgot about electronic warfare, and you in France have continued with electronic warfare, You know very well that stealth in the sense of materials is important, and I think we'll see that in the SCAF, but that's another change we're going to have, but I'll come back to that, the thing to remember is that both are important and both must be integrated into a system for it to be successful.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I'd like to give you an extract from a speech by an American colonel, Colonel Matthew, who has 3700 hours of combat experience and has carried out 35-hour B2 missions from America to Iraq. As it was in French (which he speaks very well) I copied what he said and translated it.

The extract from the speech starts at 2:12:31 :


Translation

I come from a stealthy environment, you have two forms of stealth, you have passive and active stealth. The Americans have invested heavily in passive stealth for years and years, starting with the SR-71, then the F-117, the B2, the F-35 and the F-22, but I think that was a mistake, because we forgot about electronic warfare, and you in France have continued with electronic warfare, You know very well that stealth in the sense of materials is important, and I think we'll see that in the SCAF, but that's another change we're going to have, but I'll come back to that, the thing to remember is that both are important and both must be integrated into a system for it to be successful.

They have realised their mistake. F-35 Block-4 is going to have formidable EW suite(probably GaN) based on Eagle 2's EPAWSS. It will feature 'cognitive EW' that would provide it full 'active stealth' like Rafale. And it also has very low RCS on top of that.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

This recent (2022) video presentation of the characteristics of the NGF engine reconciles us with an NGF without oblique drifts.

https://www.eumet-engine.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/video_eumet_engine_1.mp4

TECHNOLOGY HIGHLIGHTS​

---

• Highly loaded & distortion tolerant compressor
• Advanced materials and high performance core
• Highest thrust-to-mass ratio
• Hybrid electric
• Variable Cycle Architecture
• Thrust vectoring nozzle
• Low observability
• Innovative Services

 

[Bon Plan]

This recent (2022) video presentation of the characteristics of the NGF engine reconciles us with an NGF without oblique drifts.

https://www.eumet-engine.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/video_eumet_engine_1.mp4

TECHNOLOGY HIGHLIGHTS​

---

• Highly loaded & distortion tolerant compressor
• Advanced materials and high performance core
• Highest thrust-to-mass ratio
• Hybrid electric
• Variable Cycle Architecture
• Thrust vectoring nozzle
• Low observability
• Innovative Services

View attachment 31957​

The plane on picture looks like a famous Dassault mock up...
But it seems that the config studied is more a F23 style concept, with a flat V tail.