China’s New Nuclear Submarine Sank During Mysterious Incident In Wuhan: Report

Because all those cranes did not converge on the pier where a sub was docked till recently for no reason. Something happened
This is exactly the third doubt. You can see that the four crane ships around the place where the so-called submarine sank are all hundreds of tons. They are not capable of lifting a submarine with a displacement of more than 4,000 tons. The correct approach is to tie air bags around the submarine, which is very famous in the salvage of the South Korean Sewol. We did not see any use of air bags in the pictures. The only possibility is that these crane ships are just dredging the waterway.
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In this case, assuming that China has some magical technology that can cram a nuclear reactor into a small submarine with a displacement of only 4,000 tons, and don't forget that all of China's conventional submarines are double-hulled. Under the condition of the same displacement, the internal space is smaller than other single-hulled submarines, and the space available to accommodate a nuclear reactor is also very small.
French operated SSN, Rubis class is just 2,600 ton and 74 meters. Its not a magical technology at all.

Do some reading outside of weibo.
 
In this case, assuming that China has some magical technology that can cram a nuclear reactor into a small submarine with a displacement of only 4,000 tons, and don't forget that all of China's conventional submarines are double-hulled. Under the condition of the same displacement, the internal space is smaller than other single-hulled submarines, and the space available to accommodate a nuclear reactor is also very small.

That depends on the purpose of the submarine and what modifications were performed. The size by itself is not a hindrance at all. Early Soviet sub classes like November were also double-hulled and they coould contain not one but TWO reactors while displacing only around 4,000 tons submerged.

View attachment 36634
Let's take the example of the Indian Kilo-class submarine that sank in the Mumbai Harbor. The water depth of the Mumbai Harbor is seven meters. We can see that the submarine Command Station is above the water. In the WSJ report, in the Yangtze River, which is only five meters deep, no part of the submarine was seen above the water, and this is still on the shallower shore. If a submarine larger than the Indian Kilo , you should see something more obvious on the satellite photos.

Again there are so many variables.

What was the bouyancy level of the vessel when it sank? How many compartments were flooded and how many remained filled with air? Did the flooding happen unevenly, resulting in the boat tipping over on its side, making the conning tower go underwater unlike in the case of the Indian submarine?

We only know the figure of the average natural depth of a harbour that is in public domain. Nobody here knows if any dredging activity was performed at the shipyard's premises prior to this. The actual depth at the shipyard is unknown.

The point is, people who are experts at this, who have access to far more detailed satellite imagery with regular revisit rates than what is available to share in public have reported that a nuclear sub sank. What purpose could it serve the US DoD to portray the events falsely?
 
This is exactly the third doubt. You can see that the four crane ships around the place where the so-called submarine sank are all hundreds of tons. They are not capable of lifting a submarine with a displacement of more than 4,000 tons. The correct approach is to tie air bags around the submarine, which is very famous in the salvage of the South Korean Sewol. We did not see any use of air bags in the pictures. The only possibility is that these crane ships are just dredging the waterway.View attachment 36635

First, there are four cranes, not one.

Again, we don't know what exactly the cranes are trying to do.

They might as well be trying to simply upright the vessel so it can be floated later. There could be divers underneath trying to weld shut some compartments so water can be pumped out and the cranes might be trying to reposition the hull to help them.

There's no need to attribute imaginary explanations. People who know far more about submarines than anyone on this forum have confirmed that a nuclear-powered submarine sank in those waters.
 
CCP bots have been unleashed in full force to deny everything as fake news. Chinese are the most shameful & pathetic of the lots.....only filthy pork-e surpass them when comes to spreading BS.
 
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First, there are four cranes, not one.

Again, we don't know what exactly the cranes are trying to do.

They might as well be trying to simply upright the vessel so it can be floated later. There could be divers underneath trying to weld shut some compartments so water can be pumped out and the cranes might be trying to reposition the hull to help them.

There's no need to attribute imaginary explanations. People who know far more about submarines than anyone on this forum have confirmed that a nuclear-powered submarine sank in those waters.
First of all, WSJ does not have any official information source to prove its statement, only the so-called anonymous official of the Department of Defense. The only thing that can be confirmed is that a person named Tom Shugart found on Twitter that there were several cranes parked at the dock of the Wuhan Shipyard, and then he made up such a report. What is the difference between this and Reuters' statement a few months ago that Chinese missiles are filled with water?

There are more and more false reports about China
 
Whatever happened on that pier, I'm still very sceptical about this "half LEU-mini-nuke & half diesel propulsed" submarine [Frankenstein’s sub :devilish:] story.

I think the whole affair is too much like a communication campaign, an operation.

It's well known that the submarine component (and not only the submarine component) of the US navy is suffering from serious backlogs in maintenance as well as manufacturing and recruitment (which is why the Australians are in trouble).

In the US, the military-industrial complex has every interest in making maximum profits from this affair. And not just in the US, either.

Anyway...
Here's a counter-narrative that I find quite relevant, defenceone_02.10:

The purported sinking of a Chinese nuclear submarine at a Wuhan shipyard pier is the latest example of Western reporting on military developments in China that overlooks important details and context, or even takes the wrong lessons from the fragments of stories they tell.

The incident, which took place in June, drew some mention the following month on social media and even in the defense press, but it went viral after a Sept. 26 report in the Wall Street Journal touched off coverage from Fox News to CBS. What apparently lit up the U.S. media landscape were the assertions, attributed to unnamed U.S. defense officials, that the submarine was nuclear-powered. Many of the subsequent reports suggested that the incident revealed safety concerns about a new class of PLA Navy nuclear submarine and a serious setback for China’s military modernization.

These are mischaracterizations.
(…)

@Parthu and youall.
 
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ahem,
( …) “Adm. Zhao described a new unidentified 7,000-ton nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) that will feature a ‘new type of power plant, …new weapon system [and] electronic information system,’” Mr. Fisher stated in a recent article posted on the website of the Center for International Maritime Security.
The system was described by the admiral as a novel low power/low pressure auxiliary nuclear power plant for electricity generation that would fit into conventional submarine designs. The system could be a replacement for the current Stirling engine-based air independent propulsion (AIP) systems, he said
. (…)
—-
There, the journalist did not understand what he wrote, and quotes from the article by R. Fisher for the cimsec: he confuses the Type 095 (7,000t, full nuc propelled) with the "type41", an extended 039 (c. 4,000t, mini-nuc-diesel-AIP hybrid)]

Better is going back to the source. I copy the beginning of the introduction and then go directly to the subject that interests us here (endnotes added by myself from soumarsov.eu):

24.10.2017
THE PLA NAVY’S PLAN FOR DOMINANCE: SUBS, SHIPBORNE ASBMS, AND CARRIER AVIATION
By Richard D. Fisher, Jr.

Introduction
Potential modernization plans or ambitions of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) were revealed in unprecedented detail by a former PLAN Rear Admiral in a university lecture, perhaps within the last 2-3 years. The Admiral, retired Rear Admiral Zhao Dengping, revealed key programs such as: a new medium-size nuclear attack submarine; a small nuclear auxiliary engine for conventional submarines; ship-based use of anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs); next-generation destroyer capabilities; and goals for PLAN Air Force modernization. (etc) Collections of PowerPoint slides from Zhao’s lecture appeared on multiple Chinese military issue webpages on 21 and 22 August 2017, apparently from a Northwestern Polytechnical University lecture. Notably, Zhao is a former Director of the Equipment Department of the PLAN. (…)

A New SSN
Admiral Zhao described a new unidentified 7,000-ton nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) that will feature a “new type of powerplant…new weapon system [and] electronic information system.” An image shows this SSN featuring a sound isolation raft and propulsor which should reduce its acoustic signature, 12 cruise missile tubes in front of the sail, and a bow and sail similar to the current Type 093 SSN. This design appears to have a single hull, which would be a departure from current PLAN submarine design practice, but the 7,000 ton weigh suggests it may reflect the lower-cost weight and capability balance seen in current U.S. and British SSNs.

It is not known if this represents the next generation Type 095 SSN expected to enter production in the next decade. However, in 2015 the Asian Military Review journal reported the PLAN would build up to 14 Type 095s.
fisher-3.jpg

Of some interest, Admiral Zhao describes a new 7,000 ton nuclear powered attack submarine (SSN), showing acoustic capability enhancements, internal storage for 12 large missiles, but design similarities with the older Type 093 SSN. (CJDBY)


Small Nuclear Powerplant
Zhao also revealed the PLAN may be working on a novel low power/low pressure auxiliary nuclear powerplant for electricity generation for fitting into conventional submarine designs, possibly succeeding the PLAN’s current Stirling engine-based air independent propulsion (AIP) systems. One slide seems to suggest that the PLAN will continue to build smaller submarines around the size of current conventional powered designs, but that they will be modified to carry the new nuclear auxiliary powerplant to give them endurance advantages of nuclear power.
fisher-4.jpg

Admiral Zhao suggests that the PLAN is developing a new nuclear reactor-powered auxiliary power unit to charge the batteries of smaller and less expensive conventional submarines, allowing the PLAN to more rapidly increase its numbers of “nuclear” powered submarines. (CJDBY)

Zhao’s diagram of this powerplant shows similarities to the Soviet/Russian VAU-6 auxiliary nuclear powerplant tested in the late 1980s on a Project 651 Juliet conventional cruise missile submarine (SSG).[1] Reports indicate Russia continued to develop this technology but there are no reports of its sale to China. Russia’s Project 20120 submarine Sarov may have a version of the VAU-6 [2] giving it an underwater endurance of 20 days. While the PLA would likely seek longer endurance, it may be attracted by the potential cost savings of a nuclear auxiliary powered submarine compared to a SSN.
fisher-5.jpg

A slide of Admiral Zhao’s showing a diagram of a nuclear reactor powered auxiliary power unit for small submarines, appears to be similar to the Soviet/Russian VAU-6 design. (CJDBY)

(..)
[then he talks about naval ASBMs and directed energy weapons, future destroyers, naval aviation (EW, AEW, ASW, etc.), then the author returns to submarines.]: (…)


Submarine Dominance
Should the Type 095 SSN emerge as an “efficient” design similar to the U.S. Virginia class, and should the PLA successfully develop a nuclear auxiliary power system for SSK-sized submarines, this points to a possible PLA strategy to transition affordably to an “all-nuclear” powered submarine fleet. While nuclear auxiliary powered submarines may not have the endurance of SSNs, their performance could exceed that of most AIP powered submarines for an acquisition price far lower than that of an SSN.

Assuming the Asian Military Review report [DL404] proves correct and that the PLAN has success in developing its auxiliary nuclear power plant, then by sometime in the 2030s the PLAN attack submarine fleet could consist of about 20 Type 093 and successor “large” SSNs, plus 20+ new smaller nuclear-auxiliary powered submarines, and 30+ advanced Type 039 and Kilo class conventional submarines.

Such nuclear submarine numbers would not only help the PLAN challenge the current dominance of U.S. Navy SSNs, it could also could help the PLAN begin to transition to an “offensive” strategy against U.S. and Russian nuclear ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs). But in Asia it would give the PLAN numerical and technical advantages over the non-nuclear submarines of Japan, South Korea, India, Australia, Russia, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, and Thailand. This combined with rapid PLAN development of new anti-submarine capabilities, to include its “Underwater Great Wall” of seabed sensors and underwater unmanned combat vessels, point to an ambition to achieve undersea dominance in Asia.

Such nuclear auxiliary engine technology also gives the PLAN the option to develop a number of longer-endurance but low-cost ballistic missile submarines, perhaps based on the Type 032 conventional ballistic missile submarine (SSG). Such submarines might deploy nuclear-armed, submarine-launched intercontinental missiles, long-range cruise missiles, or ASBMs. Auxiliary nuclear-powered submarines may be easier to station at the PLA’s developing system of naval bases, like Djibouti, Gwadar, Pakistan, and perhaps Hambantota, Sri Lanka. China can also be expected to export such submarines. /end

——-
endnotes:

(1) Project 20120 would be used for testing a new nuclear power plant, the KTP-7I FENIKS, intended for the project of a new SSN, the KALITKA.
On December 14, 2007, the SEVMASH shipyard announced that the experimental submarine B-90 SAROV of the 20120 class had left the assembly hall. It specified that this was a project developed by the RUBIN engineering bureau in 1989, and that its construction had begun at the Krasnoe Sormovo shipyard in Nizhniy Novgorod. It also indicated that this was a test platform for torpedoes and missiles, as well as for manned and unmanned underwater vehicles, both civil and military. Finally, it is stated that this submarine is expected to have a long operational life, and that modernizations/modifications will take place in the future, and the subsequent installation of a nuclear reactor is not excluded.

The installation of an auxiliary nuclear reactor has already been tested on a submarine built by the Krasnoe Sormovo shipyard, the K-68 of the 651 class. In 1985, it was modified to the 651E class, and equipped with a VAU-6 auxiliary nuclear reactor. However, this experiment did not initially give satisfaction, since no other submarine with diesel-electric main propulsion has been subsequently modified
.

(2) The 651E NERKA project consisted of equipping a submarine, the B-68, with a VAU-6 auxiliary nuclear reactor, with a power of around 600 kW to improve autonomy when submerged. The idea is based on the work of a 651K project of the Rubin bureau from 1970 with the VAU-6. The project was adopted on August 30, 1979. Open data on this project is almost non-existent. But the abandonment of this assembly on other projects of diesel-electric propulsion submarines seems to show that the expected efficiency was not there.

From 60 Years of Marine Nuclear Power: 1955 – 2015 Part 3: Former Soviet Union & Russia. Lobner, 2015:
GZNH-iGWkAAEMpy


and from X, details from VAU-6:
GZDcQWhXoAAYtVs
 
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