China’s New Nuclear Submarine Sank During Mysterious Incident In Wuhan: Report

[Ashwin]

China’s New Nuclear Submarine Sank During Mysterious Incident In Wuhan: Report

A strange incident caught in satellite imagery was indeed a major mishap involving a Chinese submarine, according to a new report. The mysterious incident in China’s Wuchang Shipyard in the spring of this year led to the sinking of the new Zhou class SSN.

www.twz.com

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Are we sure it's a nuclear powered vessel?

I cannot find the name Zhou Class in 091/093/092/094

 

[Speedster1]

I cannot find the name Zhou Class in 091/093/092/094

I'm guessing they mean the Xia class which was the PLANs first SSBN design. Maybe that's how it's pronounced?

The newest SSN are Shang class. All NATO designations, of course. Maybe Zhou is the internal PLAN designation?

This is the first time I've heard the name.

 

[Parthu]

Are we sure it's a nuclear powered vessel?

I cannot find the name Zhou Class in 091/093/092/094

I'm guessing they mean the Xia class which was the PLANs first SSBN design. Maybe that's how it's pronounced?

The newest SSN are Shang class. All NATO designations, of course. Maybe Zhou is the internal PLAN designation?

This is the first time I've heard the name.

As per sources that @Ashwin found, it's apparently a nuclear version of the 039 Song-class SSK.

041 is the designation of the type.

Unclear to me what's the purpose of such a small SSN considering China already builds larger, more capable nuclear boats like the continously-updated 093 family. Perhaps they thought a smaller, cheaper boat that can be produced in larger numbers is more ideal for littoral operations within the first island chain.

Or perhaps it's aimed as an export option for Chinese client states like Pakistan (to counter India's upcoming SSNs) or even Indonesia (if they end up becoming too uncomfortable with Australia having SSNs). With AUKUS going through, there's not much to point fingers at China if they too start exporting SSNs.

 

[Ashwin]

As per sources that @Ashwin found, it's apparently a nuclear version of the 039 Song-class SSK.

041 is the designation of the type.

Unclear to me what's the purpose of such a small SSN considering China already builds larger, more capable nuclear boats like the continously-updated 093 family. Perhaps they thought a smaller, cheaper boat that can be produced in larger numbers is more ideal for littoral operations within the first island chain.

Or perhaps it's aimed as an export option for Chinese client states like Pakistan (to counter India's upcoming SSNs) or even Indonesia (if they end up becoming too uncomfortable with Australia having SSNs). With AUKUS going through, there's not much to point fingers at China if they too start exporting SSNs.

It was a few months ago when people noticed a new bigger submarine at the same shipyard. This shipyard only produces SSKs, so everyone assumed it was a new class. Now, American DoD have confirmed that this is SSN. Which is the new development.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1817535868640391258

https://twitter.com/x/status/1839334050081001869

 

[Speedster1]

As per sources that @Ashwin found, it's apparently a nuclear version of the 039 Song-class SSK.

041 is the designation of the type.

Unclear to me what's the purpose of such a small SSN considering China already builds larger, more capable nuclear boats like the continously-updated 093 family. Perhaps they thought a smaller, cheaper boat that can be produced in larger numbers is more ideal for littoral operations within the first island chain.

Or perhaps it's aimed as an export option for Chinese client states like Pakistan (to counter India's upcoming SSNs) or even Indonesia (if they end up becoming too uncomfortable with Australia having SSNs). With AUKUS going through, there's not much to point fingers at China if they too start exporting SSNs.

Whoa! The Pakistanis have been begging China for an SSN ever since the 80s when we leased the Chakra-1. Something tells me this is to be Pak's first SSN.
It may have even been designed with their needs in mind. If there's one reason why the Pakistanis have been so smug lately, it's China.

Also goes to show that an SSK design CAN be converted to SSN with the right level of reactor miniaturisation and shielding. This should send alarm bells ringing in NHQ!

 

[Speedster1]

Don't know if any lives were lost but at least now we won't be the only country to have lost a submarine at berth.

 

[Parthu]

Also goes to show that an SSK design CAN be converted to SSN with the right level of reactor miniaturisation and shielding. This should send alarm bells ringing in NHQ!

Yes...though, as is plain to see now, somewhere along that process of converting the design to nuclear, the Chinese seem to have made a number of errors.

We don't know during what stage of fitting out/testing the sub apparently sank.

It might very well have been during a trial run of the reactor while the boat is still in harbour.

 

[South block]

China’s New Nuclear Submarine Sank During Mysterious Incident In Wuhan: Report

A strange incident caught in satellite imagery was indeed a major mishap involving a Chinese submarine, according to a new report. The mysterious incident in China’s Wuchang Shipyard in the spring of this year led to the sinking of the new Zhou class SSN.

www.twz.com

 

[BMD]

MSN

New Chinese nuclear attack submarine sank during construction, US defense official says​

 

[Speedster1]

somewhere along that process of converting the design to nuclear, the Chinese seem to have made a number of errors

What amazes me is that they would even attempt to fit a nuke reactor on a sub that's essentially a Kilo, once the mainstay of our sub force. The amount of experimentation they've done with Type 039/41 is incredible. Angled sail (Type 039C?) being just one of them. Who knows, they may even be getting help from Rubin or some other foreign sub design house.

The IN has been achieved commendable progress on missile subs (Arihant has a clear Kilo design influence) but inexplicably nothing to show on the conventional front. Let's hope MDL or L&T can take the lead on this.

 

[Parthu]

What amazes me is that they would even attempt to fit a nuke reactor on a sub that's essentially a Kilo, once the mainstay of our sub force. The amount of experimentation they've done with Type 039/41 is incredible. Angled sail (Type 039C?) being just one of them. Who knows, they may even be getting help from Rubin or some other foreign sub design house.

I think the current theory is that the new boat contains a pretty small (I'm estimating <30MWt) reactor for providing supplementary electric power to charge the batteries, rather than a reactor that directly drives propulsion.

We'll see.

 

[BMD]

What goes down must go down.

 

[LX1111]

China’s New Nuclear Submarine Sank During Mysterious Incident In Wuhan: Report

A strange incident caught in satellite imagery was indeed a major mishap involving a Chinese submarine, according to a new report. The mysterious incident in China’s Wuchang Shipyard in the spring of this year led to the sinking of the new Zhou class SSN.

www.twz.com

This is extremely stupid news. Wuhan is not a nuclear submarine base at all. Wuhan can only produce some conventional submarines. The nuclear submarine base is in Huludao, Liaoning. Moreover, the safe navigation depth of the Yangtze River waterway in Wuhan is only 4.5 meters, and submarines over 4,000 tons cannot be sailed.

 

[LX1111]

You even see the obvious shadow cast by the crane beam on the left. Stupid media.

 

[Speedster1]

I think the current theory is that the new boat contains a pretty small (I'm estimating <30MWt) reactor for providing supplementary electric power to charge the batteries, rather than a reactor that directly drives propulsion.

A tea kettle reactor, you mean? That could very well be the case. Great way to scale N-sub production though.

Before this came along, France's Rubis class SSN was the only 4000t category SSN globally iirc.

 

[South block]

Ching Chong tin can.... What else do you expect.

 

[Parthu]

This is extremely stupid news. Wuhan is not a nuclear submarine base at all. Wuhan can only produce some conventional submarines. The nuclear submarine base is in Huludao, Liaoning. Moreover, the safe navigation depth of the Yangtze River waterway in Wuhan is only 4.5 meters, and submarines over 4,000 tons cannot be sailed.

The report (and the original WSJ piece) already addresses all the arguments you make...which are remarkably similar to those being parroted by Chinese accounts across social media by the way.

The sub in question is not a large SSN like the 093 class, but a small nuclear version of the 039 Song class that's only about ~10% bigger than the diesel variant. That's why it's at this shipyard.

View attachment 36588
View attachment 36589
You even see the obvious shadow cast by the crane beam on the left. Stupid media.

Do you deny that any submarine sank at all, or that the sub that sank was a nuclear one?

You might want to consult with your bosses before answering that one.

Because all those cranes did not converge on the pier where a sub was docked till recently for no reason. Something happened.

 

[LX1111]

The report (and the original WSJ piece) already addresses all the arguments you make...which are remarkably similar to those being parroted by Chinese accounts across social media by the way.

The sub in question is not a large SSN like the 093 class, but a small nuclear version of the 039 Song class that's only about ~10% bigger than the diesel variant. That's why it's at this shipyard.

In this case, assuming that China has some magical technology that can cram a nuclear reactor into a small submarine with a displacement of only 4,000 tons, and don't forget that all of China's conventional submarines are double-hulled. Under the condition of the same displacement, the internal space is smaller than other single-hulled submarines, and the space available to accommodate a nuclear reactor is also very small.

 

[LX1111]

The report (and the original WSJ piece) already addresses all the arguments you make...which are remarkably similar to those being parroted by Chinese accounts across social media by the way.

The sub in question is not a large SSN like the 093 class, but a small nuclear version of the 039 Song class that's only about ~10% bigger than the diesel variant. That's why it's at this shipyard.



Do you deny that any submarine sank at all, or that the sub that sank was a nuclear one?

You might want to consult with your bosses before answering that one.

Because all those cranes did not converge on the pier where a sub was docked till recently for no reason. Something happened.

Let's take the example of the Indian Kilo-class submarine that sank in the Mumbai Harbor. The water depth of the Mumbai Harbor is seven meters. We can see that the submarine Command Station is above the water. In the WSJ report, in the Yangtze River, which is only five meters deep, no part of the submarine was seen above the water, and this is still on the shallower shore. If a submarine larger than the Indian Kilo ， you should see something more obvious on the satellite photos.