Chengdu J-10C for Pakistan

randomradio said:
Actually, it solidified its position after that. What it was missing then was a more modern BVR missile. The one on it during Balakot was already 20+ years old. The MLU is needed to counter China. The current MKI is still more advanced than what PAF possesses.
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Not really superior compared to the J10Cs that PAF will be getting. Given our low numbers and the two-front scenario, i don't understand what is happening with the MKI MLU. We desperately need to upgrade our most numerous jet since it has high potential to be a very good 4++ gen fighter. As you say that we cannot increase our numbers for the next 2-3 years, so what option do we have other than MKI MLU?
 
randomradio said:
The J-10C buy is a tacit admission that the JF-17 B3 doesn't cut the mustard.
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Yes, this must have come as a rude jolt for PAF fanboys. But PAF eventually understood the reality and hence kept hoping for new F16s and trying for J10s. JF-17 Blk3 is needed just like we need Tejas MK1A. But i also think that they should have opted for J10 a long time back itself instead of going for more than 50 JF-17s or just make adequate numbers to replace their old jets.
 
thinkingcap81 said:
Not really superior compared to the J10Cs that PAF will be getting.
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It's unclear where the J-10C stands today. For one, it needs a significantly reduced RCS compared to the original if it is to gain an advantage over the MKI. If not, it should be able to match the MKI in BVR capability, so it still loses in the numbers game. Plus, it's an export version, so it's not going to be as capable as what the MKI already faces across the Chinese border.

It's a really, really good thing that we are facing two enemies operating pretty much the same technologies.

thinkingcap81 said:
Given our low numbers and the two-front scenario, i don't understand what is happening with the MKI MLU. We desperately need to upgrade our most numerous jet since it has high potential to be a very good 4++ gen fighter. As you say that we cannot increase our numbers for the next 2-3 years, so what option do we have other than MKI MLU?
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I doubt the MKI MLU is gonna deliver in just 2-3 years. While R&D work has been going on since quite a long time, we should sign the main contract in 2022. But by the time prototypes are tested and the first set of jets introduced, it's gonna be many years.

In any case, the MKI really only needs a new BVR weapon, and the Derby ER is coming in.
 
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randomradio said:
It's unclear where the J-10C stands today. For one, it needs a significantly reduced RCS compared to the original if it is to gain an advantage over the MKI. If not, it should be able to match the MKI in BVR capability, so it still loses in the numbers game. Plus, it's an export version, so it's not going to be as capable as what the MKI already faces across the Chinese border.

It's a really, really good thing that we are facing two enemies operating pretty much the same technologies.



I doubt the MKI MLU is gonna deliver in just 2-3 years. While R&D work has been going on since quite a long time, we should sign the main contract in 2022. But by the time prototypes are tested and the first set of jets introduced, it's gonna be many years.

In any case, the MKI really only needs a new BVR weapon, and the Derby ER is coming in.
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Ya, good point about PAF and PLAAF using similar weaponry. A new BVR for MKI is all that is required (for the next 2-3 years) even for the 4++ gen aircrafts of PLAAF?
 
randomradio said:
It's unclear where the J-10C stands today. For one, it needs a significantly reduced RCS compared to the original if it is to gain an advantage over the MKI. If not, it should be able to match the MKI in BVR capability, so it still loses in the numbers game. Plus, it's an export version, so it's not going to be as capable as what the MKI already faces across the Chinese border.

It's a really, really good thing that we are facing two enemies operating pretty much the same technologies.



I doubt the MKI MLU is gonna deliver in just 2-3 years. While R&D work has been going on since quite a long time, we should sign the main contract in 2022. But by the time prototypes are tested and the first set of jets introduced, it's gonna be many years.

In any case, the MKI really only needs a new BVR weapon, and the Derby ER is coming in.
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Will the J 10 announcement speed up the Rafale Next Tranche or We will keep waiting for 114 planes contract
 
thinkingcap81 said:
JF-17 Blk3 is needed just like we need Tejas MK1A.
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Can't compare the two. LCA has been designed for air superiority, like the J-10, unlike the JF-17. The Mk1A is a pretty good match for the J-10C in the BVR fight. If the J-10C has not seen any significant RCS reduction, then it will fall behind the LCA. To put it in perspective, the Mk1A is superior to the MKI in BVR, and the MKI is superior to the F-16 in BVR.

The JF-17 is woefully behind because it cannot match the kinematics required of a BVR fighter even if it has the same sensors and weapon.

thinkingcap81 said:
But i also think that they should have opted for J10 a long time back itself instead of going for more than 50 JF-17s or just make adequate numbers to replace their old jets.
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I suppose they waited for the technology to become available. The J-10A is significantly inferior to the F-16 in terms of avionics. The J-10B didn't seem to be properly modernised, hence it was capped at 50 jets. So the J-10C became the definitive version with AESA + PL-15. Plus they also had to wait for PLAAF to finish their inductions first.
 
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thinkingcap81 said:
Ya, good point about PAF and PLAAF using similar weaponry. A new BVR for MKI is all that is required (for the next 2-3 years) even for the 4++ gen aircrafts of PLAAF?
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Yep. Although a PESA radar lacks the versatility of an AESA radar, the Bars is still a hybrid PESA and it functions like an AESA when it works in just one mode. The Derby ER will plug the gap sometime next year followed by the Astra Mk2 the following year. Currently, the PL-15 gives them a significant advantage over the R-27/77. The IAF wasted a bit too much time waiting for the Europeans to decide on the Meteor export.
 
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randomradio said:
Why will IAF change their own plans when the collective enemy alliance has merely added 25 more J-10Cs to their existing 250?
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Those 25 have added some qualitative advantage to NEGATE the "mere 36 " additional Rafales
That we have inducted

Just as we were upbeat about the 36 , so they too are feeling elevated after these 25

Ok , semantics apart , these 25 will supplement the F 16s for Air To Air Combat thereby making our offensive missions more difficult
 
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randomradio said:
Yep. Although a PESA radar lacks the versatility of an AESA radar, the Bars is still a hybrid PESA and it functions like an AESA when it works in just one mode. The Derby ER will plug the gap sometime next year followed by the Astra Mk2 the following year. Currently, the PL-15 gives them a significant advantage over the R-27/77. The IAF wasted a bit too much time waiting for the Europeans to decide on the Meteor export.
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What about the New Generation of
Russian AAMs that were ordered after 2019
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
Those 25 have added some qualitative advantage to NEGATE the "mere 36 " additional Rafales
That we have inducted

Just as we were upbeat about the 36 , so they too are feeling elevated after these 25

Ok , semantics apart , these 25 will supplement the F 16s for Air To Air Combat thereby making our offensive missions more difficult
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Those 25 J-10Cs are like F-16 B70--. Can't compare it to the Rafale, which is easily half a generation ahead.

STEPHEN COHEN said:
What about the New Generation of
Russian AAMs that were ordered after 2019
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Those are equal in capability to the AIM-120C7 or Astra Mk1. Not the Derby ER or PL-15.
Guynextdoor said:
it will be a major accomplishment if they buy these jets and run away without paying the chinese as usual.
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The Chinese have likely footed most of the bill.
 
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Guynextdoor said:
they're too broke to even buy dicounted ones.
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Thy are not idiots like the one siting in mod, when comes to national security Pakistanis wont do tantrum like we fo, they spend money on gears. Infact AFAIK, they were ready to pay full amount for new f16s.
 
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