Analysis CHATURVARNA...real meaning...its misunderstanding, misuse leading to injustice & divide in society

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Golden_Rule

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In the wake of growing divide in our society in India which is many times based on the Chaturvarna and Caste based systems, I thought of writing my understanding which I have got over the years looking around me in society and one thing for sure is this word Chaturvarna is misunderstood by many, misrepresented by many. Many youths are misguided by many literatures, NGOs and so called humanity based groups and finally politicians who gain power in this fight. Few out of their own ignorance have used it to prove their superiority, few got injustice and sometimes it lands up in few funny situations as well. Lets try to see what is it…

CHATURVARNA is Sanskrit word – Chatur means four and Varna means ‘Groups’, means four groups. There were four groups of people Brahmins (Teachers), Kshatriya (Fighters), Vaishya (Traders) and Sudra (Producers), mind it, it is Sudra and not Kshudra (meaning insignificant) or Shudra. Kshudra or Shudra is the distortion done by few people deliberately. First lets understand each one of them and then understand how mess happened due to misunderstanding and who took advantage and creating rift among us and looting all of us.

Brahmin – Is the person who has attained/gained knowledge and most importantly he is sharing with all selflessly for enlightening of society and ensuring that all people are filled with knowledge. He is the one who is living for others, who needs nothing (that doesn’t mean he must not have any wealth), who is in bliss and sharing it with all. In a way all saints land up in this category. They pass on knowledge, unite people, propagate love & peace and society is happy.

Kshatriya – He is the person who is filled with Valor, who is fearless, who has skills of warfare and thus he has ability to take part in wars and save his land & people from enemies. They protect rest of the 3 groups and maintain the environment so that rest 3 can perform their function.

Vaishya – He is trader. Trader takes things from one person and sells it to other at higher price and they make profits. He is sharp in his analytical aptitude and good in calculations. He is quick in identifying business and money making opportunities. They are responsible for movement of goods & money. They are responsible for sharing some % of their wealth to state. Question comes why only trader shall pay? He /She is the one who is moving money and rest 3 groups are creating environment, goods so that he can trade. His responsibility is to donate for all good causes in the society. If you go to any religious place even today, you will find that many dharmshalas and Matths are created by these people.

Sudra – They are responsible for producing things. All skilled people land up in this group. If you have aptitude of creating fine painting, superior wooden craft, producing grains, creating cloth, producing beautiful pottery utensils, producing nice weapons for your Army etc then you are part of this category. Your skill is the supreme and you are basic foundation of economy of state and because of you all are getting good wealth, mind it good wealth. This is the wealth which is generated out of everybody’s efforts, skill and hard work. It is not the wealth which is created by cheating someone, robbing someone. Good wealth will bring all good and bad wealth will bring all bad on to you. That is why they are called as ‘Sudra’, Su – dra. In Sanskrit every good thing is presented & begins with letter ‘Su’ Ex- Suprabhat, Suswagatam, Sushma, Suvichar etc. Sudra also begins with Su and attached ‘dra’ with it which is one of the meaning of wealth – Dravya, Indra (wealth inside – your 5 senses) etc.

If you observe the job of all 4 groups, everything is depending on their aptitude. As per your aptitude you can move in the group which you want to join and contribute to society. Nobody can say that by birth he is Brahmin, Kshtriya, Vaishya or Sudra. Your aptitude decides your role and if you don’t do it as per aptitude, you decide it as per your birth then for sure lot of mess will happen and it happened. We need to see judiciously from when real trouble began in Indian Society, I am talking about society and not kingdoms. For many centuries kings have fought with each other but you will never hear that people in society have fought with each other and separated based on their this group or so called Caste mainly invented by Brits.

I have pasted one of the photo of Macaulay and his address to British Parliament. It is given in 1835 and see what he said “I have travelled across length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is begger, who is thief such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country……(and so on)….”. Time of this speech is very interesting..1835. Means it was after defeating, Tipu Sultan in South, Peshwas in Maharashtra , even battle of plassey happened much before”. Despite of defeating so many big empires and looting wealth from them, this is the statement he had to say. Such was this holy country called Bharat (Now India). After defeating all major kingdoms by divide & rule policy, began their oppressive rule. In the year 1857, there was extremely big revolt against them and revolt was joined and supported by all farmers, producers mainly all Sudra and it was big jolt to British. After suppressing this revolt they understood unity of common people of this country (kings fought but common people came forward during difficult times). To avoid such revolt, they permanently decided to break this society by bringing oppressive laws, rules. They knew that backbone of this society & economy is no one but Sudras. First thing they did after coming in full power is banned all Sudras from doing their traditional activities. First ban came on Ayurveda, then Vishwakarmas were banned from doing any Architectural work, all Balutedars and so on. Imagine the impact it must have caused on society. As Sudra’s were oppressed, so were income sources of all the groups of society as producer itself was unable to produce properly. Deterioration of talent and knowledge happened to great extent. Once income sources dried, all other 3 groups Kshatriya, Brahmins, Traders all of them systematically collapsed. What trader will trade? How Kshatriya will fund his Army & state and so on. With collapse of one by one group came in British Allopathy medicines, Architecture, cloths ,education system and everything.

One more biggest harm happened when British began caste & religious based census. All the 4 groups were divided into further sub groups as per their activity and this game of labelling people began in this country. People got their identities as per this Caste & their religions. In all govt departments, social places you were made to disclose your caste. This is how people isolated from each other. If want to create hatred among them it became simple, publish in society by taking name of group saying “So and So people have done so and so against other people”. This is how hatred happened and even riots. You will never hear in history that riots happened in India, kings fought with each other but not people. This all began when divide and rule policy of british came. On one end they would suppress Sudras and on another end they used to put it on Brahmins or Kshatriya. This way whoever moves away from each other they used to get sympathy of British and used to land up in their Army, Police, Administration etc. This is how they ran this country. People got deceived by these tactics, our own people brought harm to our own and till today same is continuing.

Macualay’s address clearly tells that all people were wealthy, nobody oppressed no one but if you see various propaganda run today, gaps in society are increased day by day. Somebody says, Brahmins have oppressed since many centuries, somebody says we Vaishya’s are great as we run country by paying taxes, somebody says we Kshtriya’s are most great, somebody says we Brahmins are great & purest. These foolish egos are increasing gaps & disbelief among people. Various groups including politicians are giving air to such activity. Imagine even today caste & religion based census happens and governments declares religion & caste wise population, their growths etc. For what? Are you allowing to continue same patterns which divides us. One gap existed among 4 groups is they avoided sharing their knowledge with each other and we saw degradation of knowledge, skills.

Another interesting aspect in this is to see how adoption of varna by birth has created mess and fun as well. Ex – If someone says he is Brahman because he/she is born in Brahman family then will he be one? If he has Aptitude of Kshatriya then see what happens, anger will be on his nose and on small mistakes , you can expect curse flowing immediately from his/her own mouth. Even small thing is missing in any ritual then you will have to face his wrath. If his aptitude is of Vaishya then his attention will be towards profits. He may devise various ways to make money through various unnecessary rituals. If he has aptitude of Sudra then he is doing injustice to his skills. Look at the people who are running these coaching classes these days. Many of them are charging huge money for teaching. Aren’t they doing job of Brahmana with the mindset of Vaishya?

If someone says he is Kshatriya because he/she is born in Kshatriya family then will he be one?. There are ample examples in history where sons of great kings have taken their tale deep inside on battle ground and ran away. Whole state got defeated and people suffered. You need to have valor, skills of battlefield. If his/her aptitude is in painting or teaching then will he be able to perform his job as King? This is why this method of ‘Kings son becomes King’ has failed many times.

If someone says he is Sudra because he/she is born in Sudra family then will he be one?...There are ample examples of sons of Sudras who were kings, who were great saints and in a way were true Brahmins.

If someone says he is Vaishya because he/she is born in Vaishya family then will he be one?. If real aptitude of Vaishya is of Kshatriya then will he be able to do trading or business? No, there are ample examples around us, you enter their shop and little more enquiries or small argument may result into these statements “Lena hai to le nahi to nikal”, “If you want to buy then buy else get lost”. Isn’t it funny, Kshatriya aptitude plays here and you will observe all such business people are always in loss. If your king has aptitude of greedy Vaishya then also it is big problem. He will end up doing business of each and everything. I will explain it more in detail.

If someone takes support from scriptures for their misunderstanding then also they cannot justify. In bhagwatgita it is “CHATUR VARNYAM MAYAA SRISHTAM GUNA KARMA VIBHAGASHAHA TASYA KARTARAM API MAAM VIDDHI AKARTARAM AVYAYAM”. It clearly says it is Varnam and then further says Guna Karma Vibhagashaha. Means depending on aptitude these four groups have come up and nowhere it mentioned that it is by birth etc. Even today people have formed so many different groups through various associations. Doctors association, bar council (lawyers), labor unions, bankers association, jewelers association, taxi/auto drivers association, engineers association, chartered accountants association etc…

If someone takes support of Vedas and say that it is mentioned that Brahmins are head or Kshatriyas are hands, sudras are legs and Vaishya’s are thighs etc…All are our body parts and we equally love and need them. If nay part is cut then you will not be able to do anything and mind it if somebody says that you are compared to legs that is why you are less important then tell them that even today when people meet elders or respected people then they touch their feet and not head or hand. If people try to divide or try to boast their ego on these issues then ignore them.

Coming back to greedy Vaishya, If you make greedy Vaishya (mind it greedy) as your king then what happens? Answer is today’s world. Most of the Vaishya’s are good but few greedy when come to absolute power then what happens…

  • Due to polluted water, people are forced to buy clean water…business…
  • Due to inefficient government education system, people are forced to put their children in extremely expensive private schools & colleges….business…
  • Every year people’s electricity, water, gas charges go up….business…
  • People don’t have water to drink but river of liquor flows….business…
  • At every step people are looted by doing corruption…business…
  • Look at judiciary…pay money and get bail…business…need good lawyers…pay big money…business
  • Want to cure your diseases…buy expensive medicines or expensive treatments…. Business...
  • Even humans are traded by human trafficking…business…
  • Farmers die as they don’t have good rates for their produce and common people lose money while buying same produce…who earns- middlemen…business…
  • Want to live in a home/flat...pay huge money to builders…business…
  • Want to drive on road…pay toll…business…

Look around; there could be so many more examples. This is the issue right now. Few people/politicians/businessman cannot think beyond money. They continue dividing people in same line to capture power. Infuse people with ego of their own caste and hatred for others, and then job is easy. Anybody can win election by saying or portraying as if he is messiah of their own caste or showing sympathy. He/She can use bad words for others against which hatred is their in people’s mind and then he can work as vote cutter of his own community. If you see, no religion, caste is under threat but yes 3 things are under big threat – 1 ) Your Character (systematic degradation of ethics is happening) 2) your land, this motherland 3) Your pocket

Time has come that we don’t succumb to such tactics, we all unite and say “Hum Sab Ek Hain “/”We all are one” and fight against injustice.

CHATURVARNA...REAL MEANING...ITS MISUNDERSTANDING, MISUSE LEADING TO INJUSTICE & DIVIDE IN SOCIETY…
 

Shajida Khan

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Sudra – They are responsible for producing things. All skilled people land up in this group. If you have aptitude of creating fine painting, superior wooden craft, producing grains, creating cloth, producing beautiful pottery utensils, producing nice weapons for your Army etc then you are part of this category. Your skill is the supreme and you are basic foundation of economy of state and because of you all are getting good wealth, mind it good wealth. This is the wealth which is generated out of everybody’s efforts, skill and hard work. It is not the wealth which is created by cheating someone, robbing someone. Good wealth will bring all good and bad wealth will bring all bad on to you. That is why they are called as ‘Sudra’, Su – dra. In Sanskrit every good thing is presented & begins with letter ‘Su’ Ex- Suprabhat, Suswagatam, Sushma, Suvichar etc. Sudra also begins with Su and attached ‘dra’ with it which is one of the meaning of wealth – Dravya, Indra (wealth inside – your 5 senses) etc.
it is Sudra and not Kshudra (meaning insignificant) or Shudra. Kshudra or Shudra is the distortion done by few people deliberately.
Very intersting. The romanization in English is obviously a bit inaccurate. There is a more accurate way to transliterate Hindi/Sanskrit into English. It is called IAST.

International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration - Wikipedia

Now if my knowledge of Devnagari is not failing me there are 4 separate but somewhat similar consonants/combined consonants.

स - Usually transliterated as 'S' or 's' in Roman-English. Also same in IAST. Like Samaj (माज) .
श - Usually transliterated as 'Sh' or 'sh' in Roman-English. It is transliterated as ś Ś in IAST. Like Shatrughan (त्रुघ्न).
ष - Usually transliterated as 'Sh' in Roman-English. It has identical voice to श. But it is transliterated as ṣ Ṣ in IAST. Like Aushadhi (औधीय).
क्ष - Usually transliterated as 'Ksh' in Roman-English. It has more or less same sound as श but a tinge of k. It is transliterated as kṣ in IAST. like Kshatriya क्षत्रिय. I guess it is a mixed-consonant.

With this in mind, lets look at the most quoted source of 'Varna' or Caste in India. The Manusmriti. The relevant verses in section 9. Specifically 9.334
Manusmriti Verse 9.334

विप्राणां वेदविदुषां गृहस्थानां यशस्विनाम् ।
शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य धर्मो नैश्रेयसः परः ॥ ३३४ ॥

English: For the Śūdra the highest duty conducive to his best welfare is to attend upon such Brāhmaṇa house-holders as are learned in the Vedas and famous.

I think in these verses it was not Sudra or 'Good one' was being talked about. The word in question was शूद्र or Shudra or Śūdra in IAST. Which is what it means: Little, lesser, smaller, lower. In-fact if I remember Sanskrit correctly, शूद्रस्य exactly mean 'of Śūdra' or 'belonging to Śūdra'. So lets not distort what the word is. It is शूद्र indeed.

@vstol Jockey
 
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Golden_Rule

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Very intersting. The romanization in English is obviously a bit inaccurate. There is a more accurate way to transliterate Hindi/Sanskrit into English. It is called IAST.

International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration - Wikipedia

Now if my knowledge of Devnagari is not failing me there are 4 separate but somewhat similar consonants/combined consonants.

स - Usually transliterated as 'S' or 's' in Roman-English. Also same in IAST. Like Samaj (माज) .
श - Usually transliterated as 'Sh' or 'sh' in Roman-English. It is transliterated as ś Ś in IAST. Like Shatrughan (त्रुघ्न).
ष - Usually transliterated as 'Sh' in Roman-English. It has identical voice to श. But it is transliterated as ṣ Ṣ in IAST. Like Aushadhi (औधीय).
क्ष - Usually transliterated as 'Ksh' in Roman-English. It has more or less same sound as श but a tinge of k. It is transliterated as kṣ in IAST. like Kshatriya क्षत्रिय. I guess it is a mixed-consonant.

With this in mind, lets look at the most quoted source of 'Varna' or Caste in India. The Manusmriti. The relevant verses in section 9. Specifically 9.334
Manusmriti Verse 9.334

विप्राणां वेदविदुषां गृहस्थानां यशस्विनाम् ।
शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य धर्मो नैश्रेयसः परः ॥ ३३४ ॥

English: For the Śūdra the highest duty conducive to his best welfare is to attend upon such Brāhmaṇa house-holders as are learned in the Vedas and famous.

I think in these verses it was not Sudra or 'Good one' was being talked about. The word in question was शूद्र or Shudra or Śūdra in IAST. Which is what it means: Little, lesser, smaller, lower. In-fact if I remember Sanskrit correctly, शूद्रस्य exactly mean 'of Śūdra' or 'belonging to Śūdra'. So lets not distort what the word is. It is शूद्र indeed.

@vstol Jockey

There are over 4000 rules governing Sanskrit grammar. Though I am not an expert in it. Ex - the root "Kri" means "to do". Several derivations are made out of "Kri" but they do not carry the root as is. Like "Karta", "Kriya", "Karma" and so on.

Shudra may be one such "sandhi" from the roots "Su" and "dra"
 
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ManavantraTruti

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Very intersting. The romanization in English is obviously a bit inaccurate. There is a more accurate way to transliterate Hindi/Sanskrit into English. It is called IAST.

International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration - Wikipedia

Now if my knowledge of Devnagari is not failing me there are 4 separate but somewhat similar consonants/combined consonants.

स - Usually transliterated as 'S' or 's' in Roman-English. Also same in IAST. Like Samaj (माज) .
श - Usually transliterated as 'Sh' or 'sh' in Roman-English. It is transliterated as ś Ś in IAST. Like Shatrughan (त्रुघ्न).
ष - Usually transliterated as 'Sh' in Roman-English. It has identical voice to श. But it is transliterated as ṣ Ṣ in IAST. Like Aushadhi (औधीय).
क्ष - Usually transliterated as 'Ksh' in Roman-English. It has more or less same sound as श but a tinge of k. It is transliterated as kṣ in IAST. like Kshatriya क्षत्रिय. I guess it is a mixed-consonant.

With this in mind, lets look at the most quoted source of 'Varna' or Caste in India. The Manusmriti. The relevant verses in section 9. Specifically 9.334
Manusmriti Verse 9.334

विप्राणां वेदविदुषां गृहस्थानां यशस्विनाम् ।
शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य धर्मो नैश्रेयसः परः ॥ ३३४ ॥

English: For the Śūdra the highest duty conducive to his best welfare is to attend upon such Brāhmaṇa house-holders as are learned in the Vedas and famous.

I think in these verses it was not Sudra or 'Good one' was being talked about. The word in question was शूद्र or Shudra or Śūdra in IAST. Which is what it means: Little, lesser, smaller, lower. In-fact if I remember Sanskrit correctly, शूद्रस्य exactly mean 'of Śūdra' or 'belonging to Śūdra'. So lets not distort what the word is. It is शूद्र indeed.

@vstol Jockey

The english translation you have provided is Rubbish and is designed to mislead, especially in the current context of varna = caste environment.


विप्राणां वेदविदुषां गृहस्थानां यशस्विनाम् ।
शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य धर्मो नैश्रेयसः परः ॥ ३३४ ॥

Means,

"For a Shudra who is engaged in Service as profession, the best path to dharma is,
To serve in the household of a Complete Brahmin of good standing, wise in his understanding of vedas"


This is because a Shudra is uneducated in the ways of Dharma and when in service of a practicing brahmin seeped in the Vedas, he too will follow the path of dharma and will find it easier to reach moksha.

The shudra and Veda vidusham (learned in the Veda i.e. Brahmin) is defined as per the Vedas i.e. guna-karma-vibhagasah.

i.e. division based on Nature-character and Action. Not "caste".


SO if you are keen to correct the OP, then take the effort to understand WHAT is it that you are attempting to correct.

Otherwise it just looks like an attempt at propaganda.
 
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Shajida Khan

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The english translation you have provided is Rubbish and is designed to mislead, especially in the current context of varna = caste environment.


विप्राणां वेदविदुषां गृहस्थानां यशस्विनाम् ।
शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य धर्मो नैश्रेयसः परः ॥ ३३४ ॥

Means,

"For a Shudra who is engaged in Service as profession, the best path to dharma is,
To serve in the household of a Complete Brahmin of good standing, wise in his understanding of vedas"


This is because a Shudra is uneducated in the ways of Dharma and when in service of a practicing brahmin seeped in the Vedas, he too will follow the path of dharma and will find it easier to reach moksha.

The shudra and Veda vidusham (learned in the Veda i.e. Brahmin) is defined as per the Vedas i.e. guna-karma-vibhagasah.

i.e. division based on Nature-character and Action. Not "caste".


SO if you are keen to correct the OP, then take the effort to understand WHAT is it that you are attempting to correct.

Otherwise it just looks like an attempt at propaganda.
Two points.

1. I quotes the verse to show the word which is 'Shudra' and to challenge the revision of the word itself. The verse shows it clearly.

2. I think the meaning given in the site, I quoted, is fairly near to the real meaning. This entire work was translated by an English scholar in 18xx. Here is a copy of the english translation. Page 400.

The laws of Manu : Bühler, Georg, 1837-1898, ed. and tr : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

His translation is : "But to serve Brahamanas (who are) learned in Vedas, householders, and famous (for virtue) is the highest duty of a Shudra, which leads to beatitude."

The entire "engaged in Service as profession" is your addition to it without being present in the verse.
 

ManavantraTruti

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Two points.

1. I quotes the verse to show the word which is 'Shudra' and to challenge the revision of the word itself. The verse shows it clearly.

2. I think the meaning given in the site, I quoted, is fairly near to the real meaning. This entire work was translated by an English scholar in 18xx. Here is a copy of the english translation. Page 400.

The laws of Manu : Bühler, Georg, 1837-1898, ed. and tr : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

His translation is : "But to serve Brahamanas (who are) learned in Vedas, householders, and famous (for virtue) is the highest duty of a Shudra, which leads to beatitude."

The entire "engaged in Service as profession" is your addition to it without being present in the verse.

Thank you for confirming you were consciously propagating British Christian propaganda.


The verse does not even identify "Brahmin" by name, it only asks the uneducated shudra to work with reputable men who are wise in the ways of the Veda and hence Dharma.

It could be any of the twice born Varna. Those who have learnt the Vedas and know Dharma and live by the code of dharma.


Since you are now pretending to be a scholar, why don't you tell me what "शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य" means ? That way you can claim that I have inserted new meanings into the translation.
 
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Shajida Khan

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शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य
Sure why not!

शुश्रूषैव = शुश्रूषा (serving) + एव (only) (Swar Sandhi, Vriddhi Sandhi; आ + ए = ऐ)

तु = तो in Hindi; word for expressing certainity or saying 'just' as in he is just a boy.

शूद्रस्य = Sixth afflication of word Shudra, similar to Word Ram, possessive affliction. Formally called as sashtimi-vibhakti in Sanskrit.

Meaning in context of the verse :

"But to serve Brahamanas (who are) learned in Vedas, householders, and famous (for virtue) is the highest duty of a Shudra, which leads to beatitude."
 

ManavantraTruti

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Sure why not!

शुश्रूषैव = शुश्रूषा (serving) + एव (only) (Swar Sandhi, Vriddhi Sandhi; आ + ए = ऐ)

तु = तो in Hindi; word for expressing certainity or saying 'just' as in he is just a boy.

शूद्रस्य = Sixth afflication of word Shudra, similar to Word Ram, possessive affliction. Formally called as sashtimi-vibhakti in Sanskrit.

Meaning in context of the verse :

"But to serve Brahamanas (who are) learned in Vedas, householders, and famous (for virtue) is the highest duty of a Shudra, which leads to beatitude."

Good attempt. You are close, but you choose not to see.

शुश्रूषैव तु शूद्रस्य means Those Shudra who choose only to serve i.e. be in service.


Such sudra's are adviced to be in service of those men who are learned in the Vedas and are wise in the ways of Dharma.

Not Brahmins. But Any one of the learned varan's i.e twice born who is well versed with Dharma.


This is the equivalent of asking the unlettered and uneducated Shudra not to work for the likes of Allauddin Khilji. But to seek employment and life with men of refinement and learning and good character and virtue.
 
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ManavantraTruti

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You start with the basic assumption that shudra does not have any Choice.

Choice is the most natural and available thing in a free society. Why would you assume that a shudra does not have a choice ?

Every hindu is born a shudra. Its education that determines his shift into other varna. A shudra does not have education, and all the choice of profession that any uneducated man does is open to him.
 

vstol Jockey

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@Shajida Khan, Produced below is the text from Shrimad Bhagwat Gita. Lord krishna himself clarified that the varna system was created by him based on the qualifications and abilities of each individual. varna system is a labour classification within the society. Exactly same words were written by Karl Marx when he stated that state will provide jobs to each person based on his abilities and qualifications. Brahmana was placed higher in the order as he was supposed to serve the society without asking anything in return and survive by begging and not having any property in his name. it was for this selfless service to society, they were placed on top. Another reason was the education and knowledge which they imparted to the society to make them live their lives as per vedic system.

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Now let us come to what has been written in Manusmiriti, Every text in it uses the word "Sudra" and not Shudra. As per the Lord Krishna himself, everyone is equal and its his karma which makes the difference. The shloka quoted by you about a Sudra serving a well known Veda Gyaani is one such manifestation of this system. if Sudra were untouchables and were to be shunned, why would they be asked to serve Brahmanas? This whole story of Sudra turning into Shudra started is islamic invasions. In 1033, in "Battle of Bharaich" The Rajput armies were led by King Suheldev Passi who are now known as low caste people in India. But in those days he was known only by his varna and karma and since he was a warrior and King, He was a Kshatriya and all other Kshatriya kings fought under his leadership.
Just the way we have an islam by allah and another by Mullah, we have vedic system as given to us by our Gods and as practiced and taught by our Pundits. They distorted it completely. The invaders also did this to divide hindu society and break the unity of Hindus. India was always the most preferred nation for all invaders for the amount of wealth Indians had and the treasure trove of knowledge that India was. To further elaborate, Hindus are known to have 33 crore devtas. This is a common belief but the truth is that we have just 33 differnt kind of devtas. The word "Koti" has many meanings and one of them is Different and another is a count of one crore. So our priests quietly changed the meaning from diffent/kinds of to crores to cheat hindus and extract more money as dakshshina from the poor people. The world has never been driven by Gods of any religion, it has been driven by just one thing called -Greed.

I have attached the english translation of Manu Smriti. This is something like the Sharia for Muslims. Read and see that Sudras were supposed to be service class and who were supposed to serve Brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaishyas. How can they be called untouchable and treated in the manner as has been told in many books of history written by communists and invaders.
 

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Shajida Khan

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The term VARNA itself means CHOICE based on Guna.

Var means the groom of choice of a girl.

SwayamVar means a ceremony where a girl chooses her own groom.

वरण (choice and election -- abstract noun) IMHO is a different word compared to वर्ण (color, type, class -- ). Even their pronunciation is majorly different, which matters a lot in Sanskrit, AFAIK.

वरण is abstract noun for verb वृणोति (To choose, To marry). वर - Wiktionary

वर्ण (color, type, class ). वर्ण - Wiktionary

I hate to use wikipedia but if you have a better source for meaning of these words, let me know.
 
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ManavantraTruti

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वरण (choice and election -- abstract noun) IMHO is a different word compared to वर्ण (color, type, class -- ). Even their pronunciation is majorly different, which matters a lot in Sanskrit, AFAIK.

वरण is abstract noun for verb वृणोति (To choose, To marry). वर - Wiktionary

वर्ण (color, type, class ). वर्ण - Wiktionary

I hate to use wikipedia but if you have a better source for meaning of these words, let me know.


In Sanskrit, the root word for वर्ण is वर which means choice.

From this root comes the word,

वार, वूर्य, संवर, वरण, all of which means Choice.

From this comes,

स्वयंवर which means self choice.
,
वृति which means choice of boon. Same with दत्तवर and वरदत्त

वरण which means choice of bride. वरनिश्चय means a choice of BrideGroom

उर्वरी which means having a choice of multiple wives. गजवर means a choice of Elephants.

स्वाद्वन्न means choice of food.

वर्णालेख means choice of writing tool. or वर्णालेख which means choice of script.

You can see the subtle changes in the root word Var in all the various combinations in sanskrit.


The root word for colour is रुच् not वर्ण

From this root, we get .

रुचि, रङ्ग , राग, रञ्जन, रञ्जयति, संरञ्जयति, रजयति, etc. all of which means COLOUR.

The word for blood, रक्त comes from this and means Red Colour.

The use of वर्ण for colour comes from the meaning "choice of colour".



There should be no doubt about the world "Varna" and what it means. It clearly means a choice of class. This becomes obvious to anyone who has a serious understanding of either sanskrit or the scriptures.


The only people who continue to use the world "Varna" for colour are those with a dastardly Agenda.
 
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Shajida Khan

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@Shajida Khan, Produced below is the text from Shrimad Bhagwat Gita. Lord krishna himself clarified that the varna system was created by him based on the qualifications and abilities of each individual. varna system is a labour classification within the society. Exactly same words were written by Karl Marx when he stated that state will provide jobs to each person based on his abilities and qualifications. Brahmana was placed higher in the order as he was supposed to serve the society without asking anything in return and survive by begging and not having any property in his name. it was for this selfless service to society, they were placed on top. Another reason was the education and knowledge which they imparted to the society to make them live their lives as per vedic system.
Most respectfully, I do not dare challenge or even comment on the origin/validity/correctness of the system. It is divine and so be it!

Now let us come to what has been written in Manusmiriti, Every text in it uses the word "Sudra" and not Shudra.
Sudra and Shudra are English romanization which are not precise enough to capture the word from devnagri script or from the Sanskrit language itself. To the best of my knowledge the word used in the text is शूद्र . Its meaning is lower or smaller in standing. Infact this is all I am claiming, nothing more. I quoted a verse which uses the word in the context of varna.

The shloka quoted by you about a Sudra serving a well known Veda Gyaani is one such manifestation of this system. if Sudra were untouchables and were to be shunned, why would they be asked to serve Brahmanas? This whole story of Sudra turning into Shudra started is islamic invasions. In 1033, in "Battle of Bharaich" The Rajput armies were led by King Suheldev Passi who are now known as low caste people in India. But in those days he was known only by his varna and karma and since he was a warrior and King, He was a Kshatriya and all other Kshatriya kings fought under his leadership.
Just the way we have an islam by allah and another by Mullah, we have vedic system as given to us by our Gods and as practiced and taught by our Pundits. They distorted it completely. The invaders also did this to divide hindu society and break the unity of Hindus. India was always the most preferred nation for all invaders for the amount of wealth Indians had and the treasure trove of knowledge that India was. To further elaborate, Hindus are known to have 33 crore devtas. This is a common belief but the truth is that we have just 33 differnt kind of devtas. The word "Koti" has many meanings and one of them is Different and another is a count of one crore. So our priests quietly changed the meaning from diffent/kinds of to crores to cheat hindus and extract more money as dakshshina from the poor people. The world has never been driven by Gods of any religion, it has been driven by just one thing called -Greed.
I have no doubt that 'Shudra' are NOT untouchable. AFAIK, the untouchable are outside this system: ie do not belonging to any varna -- correct me if I am wrong, please?

What is interesting is how one moves from one varna to another. I have seen two different translation of Manusmriti Chapter IX Verse 335.
शुचिरुत्कृष्टशुश्रूषुर्मृदुवागनहङ्कृतः ।
ब्राह्मणाद्याश्रयो नित्यमुत्कृष्टां जातिमश्नुते ॥ ३३५ ॥

Roughly it states that one can move from his lower varna to higher based on his deeds. Now the really interesting part is 'When'. The original text says nothing about it. The translations and comments say, in the next birth ie s/he will be born as a higher varna. May be in vedic philosophy it is something which does not matter or may be it matters -- I do not know. This is a point where I tend to disagree that it is a choice. It is not a choice in the same life.

I have attached the english translation of Manu Smriti. This is something like the Sharia for Muslims. Read and see that Sudras were supposed to be service class and who were supposed to serve Brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaishyas. How can they be called untouchable and treated in the manner as has been told in many books of history written by communists and invaders.
Thanks for the translation text. I believe it is not complete translation as in chapter IX it goes only till verse 102 -- the duties of wife and husband. The text continues till 335 verse which are not there in this translation.
 
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Shajida Khan

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You start with the basic assumption that shudra does not have any Choice.

Choice is the most natural and available thing in a free society. Why would you assume that a shudra does not have a choice ?

Every hindu is born a shudra. Its education that determines his shift into other varna. A shudra does not have education, and all the choice of profession that any uneducated man does is open to him.
I have covered this in my post above.
 

Shajida Khan

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Dec 27, 2017
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In Sanskrit, the root word for वर्ण is वर which means choice.

From this root comes the word,

वार, वूर्य, संवर, वरण, all of which means Choice.

From this comes,

स्वयंवर which means self choice.
,
वृति which means choice of boon. Same with दत्तवर and वरदत्त

वरण which means choice of bride. वरनिश्चय means a choice of BrideGroom

उर्वरी which means having a choice of multiple wives. गजवर means a choice of Elephants.

स्वाद्वन्न means choice of food.

वर्णालेख means choice of writing tool. or वर्णालेख which means choice of script.

You can see the subtle changes in the root word Var in all the various combinations in sanskrit.


The root word for colour is रुच् not वर्ण

From this root, we get .

रुचि, रङ्ग , राग, रञ्जन, रञ्जयति, संरञ्जयति, रजयति, etc. all of which means COLOUR.

The word for blood, रक्त comes from this and means Red Colour.

The use of वर्ण for colour comes from the meaning "choice of colour" Same with



There should be no doubt about the world "Varna" and what it means. It clearly means a choice of class. This becomes obvious to anyone who has a serious understanding of either sanskrit or the scriptures.


The only people who continue to use the world "Varna" for colour are those with a dastardly Agenda.
Thats interesting! Do you have any dictionary or source which I can refer to? All the things that I have read till now suggest that word वर्ण means type/class/colour.

An example will be phrase श्याम वर्ण it means one whose color is dark OR simply dark colored. It certainly does not mean 'dark/dark-cloured choice'.
 
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ManavantraTruti

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Jan 25, 2018
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Thats interesting! Do you have any dictionary or source which I can refer to? All the things that I have read till now suggest that word वर्ण means type/class/colour.

An example will be phrase श्याम वर्ण it means one whose color is dark. It certainly does not mean 'dark-cloured choice'.

Any sanskrit dictionary will give you the same.

Shyam or Krishn means dark.

I have never come across श्याम वर्ण in sanskrit. Maybe you are confusing it with Hindi which tend to have such words.
 
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