Chandrayaan-5 / Lunar Polar Exploration (LUPEX) Mission: News & Updates

but PMO is angry with the ISRO for sure ( they will not sanction budgets) and this halla gulla of JointVenture must not happen.
Where do these assumptions come from ? They won't sanction budgets ? Any sources to that ?
The first news about the joint ISRO-JAXA lunar mission came out in "The Hindu" newspaper on 17th November 2017.

India, Japan working on lunar sample return mission

About 2 years before the crash landing of Vikram lander on the moon. You make it sound like its an option ISRO is looking at because of the failure of Vikram to acquire tech from the Japanese. Unless ISRO/PMO knew 2 years ago that Vikram would crash, this theory makes no sense.

The joint project with the Japanese would happen with or without the success of Vikram. Besides as the workshare stands now, ISRO would have to make the lander for this project. I don't see how they are acquiring tech from Japan if we are doing the lander ourselves again in this project.
 
The joint project with the Japanese would happen with or without the success of Vikram. Besides as the workshare stands now, ISRO would have to make the lander for this project. I don't see how they are acquiring tech from Japan if we are doing the lander ourselves again in this project.

Then what's the point of doing it with JAXA? Or they are launching it for us?
 
A presentation on MEXT website mentions intended capacity of ~500 kg payload to lunar surface for future JAXA/ISRO lunar exploration mission.

August 2019 presentation on Japan's Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT) website.

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Source : http://www.mext.go.jp/component/b_m...csFiles/afieldfile/2019/08/29/1420708_2_1.pdf

When translated by Google Translate this is what it says :

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Details of the mission :
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Previously it was stated that the payload was going to be "several hundred kilograms". Now we know more clearly that they are targetting payload mass of over 500 kgs. No sign of 'sample return' objective claimed by Indian media still.
 
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Details of the mission :
Seems like JAXA is in charge of navigation and guidance sensors and algos (#2 row, #1 column). So what's left of lander for ISRO to work with? Lander bus?
Seriously what does JAXA want ISRO to do on this project? Given the limited scope of work on CY-3 that India shares, should we give serious consideration to sending a lander alone mission to moon so as to leverage the fact we have a orbiter, already there and working pretty good and have a long life time
 
Seems like JAXA is in charge of navigation and guidance sensors and algos (#2 row, #1 column). So what's left of lander for ISRO to work with? Lander bus?
Seriously what does JAXA want ISRO to do on this project? Given the limited scope of work on CY-3 that India shares, should we give serious consideration to sending a lander alone mission to moon so as to leverage the fact we have a orbiter, already there and working pretty good and have a long life time
For quite a while we haven't heard much on this project from the Indian side. If you look at this thread you will notice most of the links are from Japanese sources. Which is odd given the usual gung-ho nature of the Indian media. We need to have some updates from the Indian side too, only then the proper work share details will emerge.

But you are right. There isn't a lot to do for us in this project, largely because the Japanese originally intended to go it all alone on this project. Bringing us in was decided much later, it seems there are some talks with the NASA trying to get them to contribute something too. It will bring diplomatic brownie points no doubt, remember the hoopla around the Japan-India-America partnership ? It seems the Japanese govt. wants to double down on it.

We have something to gain too, except for diplomatic points. We can get some valuable insights about the moon landing procedures from the Japanese. Since the lander is ours and the algos are theirs, this will obviously require the two organisations to work together closely for it to work. We still have a lot o learn in the landing department as evident from the recent CY-2 lander crash.

We will be sending more landers to moon without a doubt. But even if we start today it will take us at least 4-5 years to make a lander and be reasonably sure of its success. We can get the same experience working with the Japanese, only quicker. We will only deal with what & where we failed, i.e. the lander and let the Japanese sort out the rest. The way I see it this can help us shorten the learning curve.

Of course nothing stops us from running a parallel moon lander project, assuming we have the budget. But I haven't seen any movement on that front so far.
 
Since the lander is ours and the algos are theirs, this will obviously require the two organisations to work together closely for it to work.

That is the only benefit I could think off. An experience in being part of a possibly successful landing attempt and we could gain those insights. Its pretty valuable too. If, as you mentioned, we were to run a parallel lander in say 4 to 6 years, with the added benefit of being part of the JAXA mission, it would be worth an attempt.
 
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Japan Sets Sights on Moon with NASA and India

By Meghan Bartels
18 hours ago, Spaceflight
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Japan has its eyes on the moon, with two new partnerships designed to advance the country's lunar goals.(Image: © JAXA)

WASHINGTON — Japan has its eyes on the moon, with two new partnerships designed to advance the country's lunar goals.

The nation signed on as a partner to NASA's Artemis program, although the details of that partnership have not yet been specified. A representative of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) also spoke yesterday (Oct. 22) at the International Astronautical Congress held here about a potential partnership with India's space agency on another lunar mission.

"It's not easy to succeed in our mission," Ryo Hirasawa of JAXA said during a presentation. "We decided to go together with ISRO," he added, referring to the agency's Indian counterpart. The two space agencies are embarking on a Phase A study of such a mission's feasibility.

But right now, the pair would aim for a launch around 2023. Japan would provide the rocket and rover, Hirasawa said, while India would provide the lander. The mission would last for about six months and target a constantly sunlit region near the moon's south pole. There, the mission would investigate water, preparing for later missions in which JAXA would like to use ice as rocket fuel.

In particular, the rover would be equipped with a drill that could reach about 5 feet (1.5 meters) into the lunar rock. After drilling, the rover would heat up that material, and by measuring changes in the sample's mass, identify volatiles found in the rock.

Hirasawa also touched on a cubesat lander dubbed OMOTENASHI, which JAXA hopes to launch with NASA's first Artemis mission, according to a full paper submitted to the congress. The cubesat, which would fly in 2020, would be Japan's first lunar lander.


The OMOTENASHI project likely makes up part of the cooperation with NASA that the Japanese prime minister's office announced on Twitter on Oct. 18. "The program aims at maintaining a space station orbiting the moon, manned [sic] exploration of the lunar surface and other undertakings, and Mars and other destinations are also in our sights," the minister's office wrote.

The "space station orbiting the moon" is a reference to NASA's planned Gateway, a maneuverable spacecraft in long-term orbit around the moon that would serve as a way station for science experiments and human explorers. (The artist's depiction accompanying the prime minister's office's tweet also references Gateway.)

NASA has been openly recruiting international partners for the Gateway in particular. Canada signed on to provide a robotically operated arm, Canadarm3, that will be the successor of the International Space Station's robotic arm.

In the paper supporting Hirasawa's presentation, he and his co-authors included a graphic for JAXA's vision of international cooperation at the moon. In that diagram, in which only a handful of components include country labels, JAXA is listed as a provider of human landing services that would ferry astronauts from the Gateway to the surface of the moon.

Japan Sets Sights on Moon with NASA and India
 
This upcoming joint lunar mission with Japan was supposed to be named Chandrayaan-3. Due to the crash landing of CY-2's lander ISRO had to do another mission to prove their soft-landing technology. So, chronologically the LUPEX mission is now Chandrayaan-4.
 
Vice-Chair of Japan’s Committee on National Space Policy met Chairman, ISRO / Secretary, DOS

August 08, 2023

Dr. Saku Tsuneka, Vice-Chair of Japan’s Cabinet Committee on National Space Policy (CNSP) and Director General, National Astronomical Observatory of Japan (NAOJ) visited ISRO Headquarters on August 08, 2023 and had a meeting with Shri S. Somanath, Chairman, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) / Secretary, Department of Space (DOS). India-Japan space science cooperation at national level, Space Agency level (ISRO & JAXA) and institutes-level were discussed with specific reference to the proposed Joint LUPEX (Lunar Polar Exploration) Mission. Potential cooperation opportunities in:

i) Utilisation of data from Adithya L1 and Chandrayaan-3 missions.
ii) Development of smaller lander for lunar exploration.
iii) Joint activities under QUAD Space working group were also discussed.

Vice-Chair of Japan’s Committee on National Space Policy met Chairman, ISRO / Secretary, DOS
 
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Japanese delegation in talks with ISRO for using data from lunar and solar missions


August 09, 2023 01:56 pm | Updated 04:34 pm IST - Bengaluru
THE HINDU BUREAU

According to ISRO, India-Japan space science cooperation at national level, space agency level (ISRO & JAXA), and institute-level were discussed with specific reference to the joint LUPEX (Lunar Polar Exploration) mission
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A file photo of members of the lunar polar exploration mission reviewing the project with the ISRO team in Bengaluru on April 27, 2023. | Photo Credit: Murali Kumar K.

Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chairman S. Somanath met Dr. Saku Tsuneka, Director General, National Astronomical Observatory of Japan, on August 8. They discussed space science cooperation between India and Japan.

According to ISRO, India-Japan space science cooperation at national level, space agency level (ISRO & JAXA), and institute-level were discussed with specific reference to the joint LUPEX (Lunar Polar Exploration) mission.

The Indo-Japanese LUPEX mission was envisaged to explore the ‘dark side of the moon’, or in scientific terms, the side that is perpetually facing away from Earth.

The main objective of the mission is to confirm the presence of water in the polar regions of the moon.

The mission is expected to be launched in the next couple of years. The launch vehicle for the mission will be a Japanese rocket, the lander system will be developed by ISRO and the rover by Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA). Its landing point will be the south pole of the moon.

During the meeting with Dr. Tsuneka, who is also Vice-Chair of Japan’s Cabinet Committee on National Space Policy, potential cooperation opportunities in utilisation of data from Aditya L1 and Chandrayaan-3 missions, development of smaller lander for lunar exploration; and joint activities under QUAD Space working group were also discussed.

ISRO is planning to launch the Aditya-L1 mission in August-end, or early September. Aditya-L1 is the first Indian space mission to observe the Sun and the solar corona.

The Chandrayaan-3 moon mission, which was launched on July 14, has been successfully inserted into lunar orbit. The lander is expected to touch down on the lunar surface on August 23.

Japan in talks with ISRO for using data from lunar, solar missions
 
Chandrayaan-5/LUPEX:
Lander mass - 6500kg
Prop load - 4486kg
Total of 5 main engines: 3x 3.1kN engines & 2x 1.5kN engines
Both of these engines are newly designed and the 3.1kN engine is supposed to be used on future crewed lunar lander.
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