Brahmos and Nirbhay Cruise Missiles : News, Updates and Discussions

Lolwa

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Yeah, they are the ones who are ahead in technologies that can be exported. We are naturally ahead when it comes to strategic systems, but cannot be exported. Our focus has sadly been different.
I personally think our lack lead is mainly due to not involving the private industry for conventional weapons r&d. We could literally have a 55 ton tank read within a year if we gave Tata or Kalyani the deal along with JV. They will have better QC as well as better tech unlike involving the DRDO or OFB. DRDO should frankly focus only on development of strategic munitions and crown-jewel tech the rest of the r&d and manufacturing should be given to the private industry. We are going in the right direction for the most part but not fast enough..
 
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Arctic Wolf

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So they would have a Brahmos NG before us. Doubtful. But let's see.
Well, yesterday the Koreans showed a supersonic anti-ship missile similar in appearance to the Brahmos/Yakhont (from 1:38 in the linked video) . This, in addition to the Hyunmoo 4-4 SLBM, a long-range bunker-busting ALCM and the Hyunmoo-4 SRBM (with a 2.5-3 ton conventional warhead) (all shown in the linked video below).


Coming to the supersonic missile, as per Korean sources, its dimensions and max. range (500-550km) are similar to the Brahmos NG. And we are yet to test the Brahmos NG. If true, it isn't doubtful anymore; they will (or rather do) have a Brahmos NG before us.
 

randomradio

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Well, yesterday the Koreans showed a supersonic anti-ship missile similar in appearance to the Brahmos/Yakhont (from 1:38 in the linked video) . This, in addition to the Hyunmoo 4-4 SLBM, a long-range bunker-busting ALCM and the Hyunmoo-4 SRBM (with a 2.5-3 ton conventional warhead) (all shown in the linked video below).


Coming to the supersonic missile, as per Korean sources, its dimensions and max. range (500-550km) are similar to the Brahmos NG. And we are yet to test the Brahmos NG. If true, it isn't doubtful anymore; they will (or rather do) have a Brahmos NG before us.

A Brahmos NG before us would mean the Russians have given it to them. It's just a continuation of their relationship with Russia.
 
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Arctic Wolf

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A Brahmos NG before us would mean the Russians have given it to them. It's just a continuation of their relationship with Russia.
Maybe. But that isn't how their relationship with Russia is and that isn't how the Korean military-industrial complex usually operates. Not to mention, Korean sources first mentioned of the missile's development in around 2014-15. Considering Korea's history of officially confirming a missile's existence years after the project actually begins the timeframe isn't too short for the missile to be developed in Korea with Russian tech transfers ( much like the KM-SAM Cheongung; developed with assistance from Almaz-Antey; adopted in Russia as the S-350 Vityaz).
 
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Gautam

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No, I mean they don't have to make a copy of the Brahmos-1 right from the beginning. There's also nothing saying it has a 300Kg warhead either, it could have a much smaller warhead, similar to Harpoon.
Fair point.
Typical Americans. They do not think beyond their immediate goals. Like today they are regretting having denied technology, even from Russia, to India throughout the 90s.
They regretted what ?
Yeah, they are the ones who are ahead in technologies that can be exported. We are naturally ahead when it comes to strategic systems, but cannot be exported. Our focus has sadly been different.
Agreed.
Well, yesterday the Koreans showed a supersonic anti-ship missile similar in appearance to the Brahmos/Yakhont (from 1:38 in the linked video) . This, in addition to the Hyunmoo 4-4 SLBM, a long-range bunker-busting ALCM and the Hyunmoo-4 SRBM (with a 2.5-3 ton conventional warhead) (all shown in the linked video below).


Coming to the supersonic missile, as per Korean sources, its dimensions and max. range (500-550km) are similar to the Brahmos NG. And we are yet to test the Brahmos NG. If true, it isn't doubtful anymore; they will (or rather do) have a Brahmos NG before us.
Very interesting. @randomradio remember what I said about our relation with Russia. Maybe a knock on effect ?
Maybe. But that isn't how their relationship with Russia is and that isn't how the Korean military-industrial complex usually operates. Not to mention, Korean sources first mentioned of the missile's development in around 2014-15. Considering Korea's history of officially confirming a missile's existence years after the project actually begins the timeframe isn't too short for the missile to be developed in Korea with Korean components but Russian tech transfers (like the KM-SAM Cheongung II).
If I recall correctly Korea also purchased some cryogenic engines from Russia for space launch applications. It does seem likely that they received tech from Russia.

But why consult us ? They did have a contract with us, why would they need that ?
 

randomradio

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Maybe. But that isn't how their relationship with Russia is and that isn't how the Korean military-industrial complex usually operates. Not to mention, Korean sources first mentioned of the missile's development in around 2014-15. Considering Korea's history of officially confirming a missile's existence years after the project actually begins the timeframe isn't too short for the missile to be developed in Korea with Korean components but Russian tech transfers (like the KM-SAM Cheongung II).

The Russian equivalent of Brahmos-NG would have finished a long time ago, it's like how we haven't even started the construction of the first prototype of Brahmos-2, but the Zircon is pretty much in the induction stage.

The KM-SAM, L-SAM and now the P-800 family would make sense. Anyway, the Koreans received a lot of Russian tech after the Cold War under Operation Siberian Brown Bear, which mainly involved the transfer of BM technologies to Korea in lieu of paying off Korean loans. So everything happening today has continued from there.
 
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Arctic Wolf

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If I recall correctly Korea also purchased some cryogenic engines from Russia for space launch applications.
Yes, it was for the KSLV-1 Naro.
It does seem likely that they received tech from Russia.
Again, yes. The technology was used for developing the KSLV-2 Nuri, which is scheduled for its maiden launch next month.

But why consult us ? They did have a contract with us, why would they need that ?
Who knows? They did take the help of the Israelis to test their indigenous AESA radar for the KF-21 Boramae, so they might have had a similar arrangement with us for testing purposes.
 
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randomradio

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They regretted what ?

Now the Americans want us to "quickly" develop capabilities that can challenge China, after spending the better half of a century denying those same technologies, even from countries willing to transfer tech, like the cryogenic engines from Russia.
 
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Arctic Wolf

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So everything happening today has continued from there.
While true to some extent, the L-SAM clearly differs from the S-400. So maybe, the Koreans got tech transfers for the KM-SAM Cheongung, upgraded it to Cheongung 2 themselves, and are now manufacturing the L-SAM entirely indigenously (this particular pattern is present in every single Korean weapons programme).
 
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Hydra

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Yeah, they are the ones who are ahead in technologies that can be exported. We are naturally ahead when it comes to strategic systems, but cannot be exported. Our focus has sadly been different.
And probably will never use our strategic systems, but soko weapons will have higher probability to witness battle than our strategic systems.
 

randomradio

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While true to some extent, its noteworthy that Korea has a clear strategy for self-sufficiency and autonomy, since historically, they suffered from great power competition (the Japanese invasions, their colonisation and even the division of Korea). Add to that their industrial prowess and procurement efficiency. As such, they are a latent nuclear power with all delivery vehicles for a nuclear triad. except the warheads (which their nuclear engineers estimate they can procure in 6 months).

That being said, the L-SAM clearly differs from the S-400. So maybe, they got tech transfers for the KM-SAM Cheongung, upgraded it to Chongung 2 themselves, and are now manufacturing the next level of their BMD themselves (this particular pattern is present in every single Korean weapons programme).

The SoKos actually sped up their SAM programs after NoKo went nuclear. It barely existed before that.

Anyway, the KM-SAM and L-SAM are in totally different tiers with different missile designs. AFAIK, the KM-SAM uses the 9M96 family and L-SAM uses the 48N6 family. Below both would be the Iron Dome. So foreign help in pretty much every segment.

Having said that, I am new here. So if I do get things wrong, please do go a bit lenient.

It's cool. Happy to have you here.
 

Arctic Wolf

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The SoKos actually sped up their SAM programs after NoKo went nuclear
Well, they didn't have much of a need before that. And South Korea wasn't exactly a large economy before the late 1990s. Their military buildup visibly sped up in the 2000s, when their economy became large enough.

And their Iron Dome would be significantly different (and expensive) from the Israeli Iron Dome. As far as I know, their Iron Dome will be indigenous.
 

Hydra

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The SoKos actually sped up their SAM programs after NoKo went nuclear. It barely existed before that.

Anyway, the KM-SAM and L-SAM are in totally different tiers with different missile designs. AFAIK, the KM-SAM uses the 9M96 family and L-SAM uses the 48N6 family. Below both would be the Iron Dome. So foreign help in pretty much every segment.



It's cool. Happy to have you here.
Are you telling that those were Russian missile with soko name or just russian inspired missiles?
 

Lolwa

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It's like Brahmos. Russian missile, but lots of indigneous components inside. Although I don't think the seeker is SoKo.
I would think of all things SoKo would have have seeker tech. The semiconductor industry is already the most advanced on this planet. Their seekers if they exist would be superior to ours. I feel brahmos has been an export failure.
SoKo now already have:
1) Nirbhay class cruise missile in hyunmoo 3c with 1500KM range inducted. They are working on a 3000Km version now. While our nirbhay is still in induction and we might have some testing regiments to 10-15 systems with varying capabilities with 1500km range still not verified.
2) hyunmoo 2 Tactical ballistic missile which is based on Russian Iskander. We have nothing in that class from dated tochka's. (Shaurya is strategic system not tactical like the isknader)
3)Then they have KSS 3 capable to fire both the above two giving them tactical slbm and Cruise Missile launch capability.
4)Now a Brahmos NG supersonic equivalent. While we don't have a brahmos NG still online.
5) they already have VLS that will be able to launch all these three systems from their ships and subs..
It's honestly sad. And you can see how fast an advanced economy can cover up with us in such a short time..
 

Lolwa

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What's the relation? Brahmos wasn't even cleared for export until only a few months ago.
Because they will now export to other countries of a tech we already possessed. And not only that it will most likely be superior to ours..Tech like Brahmos give us huge political leverage like the Chinese did with their ballistic missile and cruise missile tech exporting.
We should atleast export a down graded version of the agni 1 or prahaar missile in SEA..