Ayushman Bharat : National health protection Scheme : DIscussions

ex-finance minister P Chidambaram:
"The promise of Rs. 5 lakh per family for secondary and tertiary healthcare is a big 'jumla'. The target group is 10 crore families. Assuming each family will avail of Rs. 50,000 - one tenth of Rs. 5 lakh - the amount required per year will be Rs. 5 lakh crore," he said.

and that guy is harvard graduate!
he definitely knows that if 10 million people take insurance, then all of them WONT avail the insurance. thats how insurance work - by spreading the risk across the population.

by saying that every family might avail 10% of the insurance thats saying every family of the 10 crore will be sick- imagine 10 crore families being sick every year - thats NOT how insurance works Mr. Finance Minister, and I am pretty sure you know that, you are willfully spreading misinformation to confuse the people.
This so called Havard graduate compared "Pakoda sellers with beggars"!! Somebody should tell him about Colonel Sanders who sold chicken pakoras and created a multi billion dollar industry out of it!!
 
This so called Havard graduate compared "Pakoda sellers with beggars"!! Somebody should tell him about Colonel Sanders who sold chicken pakoras and created a multi billion dollar industry out of it!!
well his hatred is understandable, after all, a tea seller got him out of his job that he considered his fiefdom.
 
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Premiums and insurance rates are based on the claims made. Attempting to fix low rates may be exposing the risk and putting the financial services at risk.
Without sounding sceptical friend - I think it’s a tall order with your time constraints.
One thing that may help the figures would be the cheapness of drugs in the indian market.
My sincere appreciation for actually involving in a good debate without name calling and snide remarks.

if you understand Insurance, the bigger the group, the lower the premium. which is why Insurance schemes are better priced in groups rather than individual. also, with govt Insurance schemes, there are usually riders like "you need to get so and so vaccination and health check up done every year". which reduces overall risk even further.
Premiums and Insurance rates are based on claims made is true.
the rate of claims made is already available in public domain (Which is how the insurance companies calculate their premium)
India is not only home for cheaper drugs, its also home for cheap high end surgical facilities and other hospital facilities (hence the booming medical tourism). we need to take advantage of the fact.
 
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Every Indian pays taxes, you just don't see it. :giggle: No Indian is a freeloader. Every Indian is a asset to the nation. Learn to see things positively.
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Ok smarty, you knew what I meant here but anyways !!
 
Ok smarty, you knew what I meant here but anyways !!
But now you know how you were wrong.

Even a beggar is contributing to Indian GDP and paying taxes.
When he ask for alms and exploits people's kindness, he earns revenue, which he invests in food(maybe liquor ;)), thus he contributes to sales tax and liquor excise tax. But he is not very productive.

Even a new born baby is a tax payer:giggle:.
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But now you know how you were wrong.

Even a beggar is contributing to Indian GDP and paying taxes.
When he ask for alms and exploits people's kindness, he earns revenue, which he invests in food(maybe liquor ;)), thus he contributes to sales tax and liquor excise tax. But he is not very productive.

Even a new born baby is a tax payer:giggle:.
cerelac-250x250.jpg

I thought you were smart, I will take my words back. You need to be spoon fed. Income tax was what I meant and it would only be you on this platform who did not got that. "Tax payer" are in general used for income tax payee.

Baby is not tax payer, the one who buys for baby is.
 
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I thought you were smart, I will take my words back. You need to be spoon fed. Income tax was what I meant and it would only be you on this platform who did not got that. "Tax payer" are in general used for income tax payee.

Baby is not tax payer, the one who buys for baby is.
What is the use of a new born baby ?;)
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So,is it just primary care?
We always had free Doctor checkup at all government hospitals in Pakistan. Also free child birth and Small operations. Even major operations were free in most cases but medicines had to be bought by patient or relatives.
Point being there are levels of such facilities. To what level Modi care is going?
Free consultancy with a ddoctor or specialist?
Free medical procedures such as operation?
Free prescribed medicines?
 
Indians Quitting PDF is understandable but why would a Pakistani do so
PDF exists to create an atmosphere of abuse and trolling. Pakistanis with half a brain realize why it exists and won’t entertain - @safriz has about three quarter brain so isn’t on their friend.
On topic - can anyone tell me where the BJP intend to be in 3 years with Modicare? What level of care is achievable?
 
This all good but how will India fund this massive massive health plan?

Please note that I am not against it. I am just wondering how does Indian government plans to fund the massive bill for health plan for half a billion people?

May be by breaking all the Pharma patents?
May be HUGE tax increase is coming our way?
May be massive cut in spending in some other area, say defence?
May be huge debt? More sovereign bonds on the way?

How will they find it is a trillion dollar question. Because even mere 100 dollars per person (Rs 6500) will yield 50 billion dollar bill. Thats more than 10% of government revenue.

I really wonder how much covering 500 million will cost each years ? Because that seems beautiful on paper and for the people who will benefit it. However,the question is how India will fund it ? There are no magical solutions,it will have to increase its taxes revenues and sharply increase public spendings.

Health spendings in France represented more than €266 billion in 2016. (Overall social security spendings over €715 billion). Now imagine this in a country the scale of India. + Try to imagine if this scheme is going to cover the entire population in the near future.
 
I really wonder how much covering 500 million will cost each years ? Because that seems beautiful on paper and for the people who will benefit it. However,the question is how India will fund it ? There are no magical solutions,it will have to increase its taxes revenues and sharply increase public spendings.

Health spendings in France represented more than €266 billion in 2016. (Overall social security spendings over €715 billion). Now imagine this in a country the scale of India. + Try to imagine if this scheme is going to cover the entire population in the near future.
Well for the beginning, there are few things going on for India.

1. Unlike France most of our population is young. I mean really prime of their age; the 20-35 group. This is the age group where things usually go well as far as health goes, only you have to deal with occasional illness and pregnancy in women. Thats all. Unlike people in age group 55 and above, I foresee much less chronic problems. India needs to deal with infectious diseases, wounds and pregnancy. A solved problem world-wide! We need to copy it at scale. This is much easier than say providing surgery or other more expensive interventions.

2. A corollary from above point is that we have more people available to take up the task, unlike Europe where most of the people are nearing retirement. So it comes about managing the workforce.

3. As government is planning, a number of places just needs folks with basic medical training, like nurses and not exactly doctors. You know, folks who can do dressing and nursing the wounds. Indian rural areas has a lot of people working in hard conditions with frequent accidents in fields etc. All they need is at times just an anti-titanus injection or rabbies vaccine. They avoid it because it will cost money and they end up paying with their life.

In the end, if government can ensure only three things: dressing of wounds and anti-titanus, managing pregnancy, basic medication for infectious and tropical diseases like malaria; a lot of people will be way better off.
 
I have an agenda which is Pro_Pakistan but not everyone understands it. The so called largest Pakistani online Forum and Internet presence did not get it at all.
I am against Foreign education in Pakistan. I am against Showing any Indian Media in Pakistan. I am against Ethnicities who support terrorism in Pakistan due to their ethnic brotheren being terrorists. I am pro-Pakistani history as told by Pakistanis not foreigners> Ia ma Pro_Pakistani war history as told by those veterans who actually fought the war from Pakistani side, not as told by Some Indian media outlet. I am Pro Saudi Arabia,anti Iran. Pro-Pan Islamic unity based on our religion.
I am very vocal about all the above.
So its not just PDF. I had trouble in saying my mind elsewhere too.
But i say what i want to say,not what others want me to say.

How does your Agenda ; your thoughts ; your Views really HELP Pakistan

In fact if you look closely How does PDF benefit pakistan

Have the Netizens of Pakistan been able to Bring any Positive change
 
How does your Agenda ; your thoughts ; your Views really HELP Pakistan

In fact if you look closely How does PDF benefit pakistan

Have the Netizens of Pakistan been able to Bring any Positive change
It's futile for us to try impress any foreign nations. Too much propaganda is going on against us and too much money being spent on it
Look at twitter, half of any search results on twitter is posts written by Indians and not positive ones.
So instead of wasting time on impressing foreign nationals. It's better to run our own agenda.
 
I really wonder how much covering 500 million will cost each years ? Because that seems beautiful on paper and for the people who will benefit it. However,the question is how India will fund it ? There are no magical solutions,it will have to increase its taxes revenues and sharply increase public spendings.

Health spendings in France represented more than €266 billion in 2016. (Overall social security spendings over €715 billion). Now imagine this in a country the scale of India. + Try to imagine if this scheme is going to cover the entire population in the near future.

The insurance liabilities in India are much lower in India esp in exchange rate nominal than France and the West....both in width and depth.

Add to this, it will be a closed per capita amount commitment (by Indian govt), so insurance companies can compete well in bidding with the govt structure (when that is finalised and released) given there is certainty compared to more open end (causes defined but amount left open) liability.

Also it will cover basically what France and the West dont even really cover under social security but really more EMT + outpatient wise....no huge amount of MRI scan + inpatient bed stuff etc (but of course some overlap, we have to see what can be done in the amount alloted)...given the scarcity of the capacity in that area to begin with in India (that needs basically way more wealth in India to address long term period, rather than govt programs).

Basically I see it as natural continuation of the aadhar (national ID) DBT system account benefit + swach bharat (clean india program) to cover "tier II" access to basic health now that tier-I is largely scoped out and approaching some modicum of completion (and clear plans for further improvement based on lessons learned).

Initial funding expectation I have seen comes to 2 billion USD per year (nominal exchange) and maybe sustained around 20 billion a year when the ramping is mostly done (though may peak higher, it depends on longer term fiscal scenario).... which by PPP multiplier is maybe around 100 billion USD in western medical industry price level. Remember the Indian govt has access to big data in the sector we do not quite have, so they know the overall affliction rates/population base and the best (fiscally and politically) ramping routes for the proposed commitment.

This is really to be compared with how the very early social medical programs started in Industrial revolution Europe rather than consumer+matured service (and debt + insurance market) europe has today. That only comes much later in demographic development for India given per capita output is like 1/20th in India in nominal terms and 1/5th in physical terms to what Europe has....basically the total per capita output in India is often less than just the per capita health expense of Europe.
 
So,is it just primary care?
We always had free Doctor checkup at all government hospitals in Pakistan. Also free child birth and Small operations. Even major operations were free in most cases but medicines had to be bought by patient or relatives.
Point being there are levels of such facilities. To what level Modi care is going?
Free consultancy with a ddoctor or specialist?
Free medical procedures such as operation?
Free prescribed medicines?
Modicare: Healthcare scheme could cost exchequer Rs 10,000 crore a year
What is Modicare? It's definitely not the same as Obamacare

The details are now rolling out.

1. It seems they are going to include private hospitals in the scheme as well.
2. Upto 5 lakhs per family per year. This can include health check, surgeries, diagnostic procedures, consultation with specialists, medication -- everything.
3. Indian government is going to pay for premiums to Insurance companies who will then cover the people in this scheme. They will be bidding for providing coverage. These companies will have tie-ups with hospital chains too.
 
Modicare: Healthcare scheme could cost exchequer Rs 10,000 crore a year
What is Modicare? It's definitely not the same as Obamacare

The details are now rolling out.

1. It seems they are going to include private hospitals in the scheme as well.
2. Upto 5 lakhs per family per year. This can include health check, surgeries, diagnostic procedures, consultation with specialists, medication -- everything.
3. Indian government is going to pay for premiums to Insurance companies who will then cover the people in this scheme. They will be bidding for providing coverage. These companies will have tie-ups with hospital chains too.
The idea is good. Assigning 5 Lakh per family per year.
here in UK we get all medical free.
But some use it too much , others dont.
For example i go to doctor on the average of once an year. My neighbor needs all sorts of medical attention and costs Government an average of 4000£ a month. I cost the government 160 £ an year.
So although a good idea to set aside money for every family in India. There may be further tweaking needed.
 
It's futile for us to try impress any foreign nations. Too much propaganda is going on against us and too much money being spent on it
Look at twitter, half of any search results on twitter is posts written by Indians and not positive ones.
So instead of wasting time on impressing foreign nationals. It's better to run our own agenda.
India has so much money to spend on anti-pakistan-propaganda? Or Indian government can organize such endeavor successfully? In a timely manner that too? Remember, this is the same government which cannot build and maintain enough toilets.

I doubt Indian government is doing any major propaganda, at least continuously! The usual propaganda you see on internet is anti-Muslim and largely anti-Iran. I don't need to tell you who funds it. Pakistan does not even appear in it, its more like guilt by association.

As far as twitterati go, well, we Indians are a large bunch, we are also largely bored. So we do what all the bored people on the internet do. Mud-slinging! On ourselves, on our neighbours, on east, on west, on north, on south, on centre, on everywhere! No government need to tell us that.
 
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