Arjun Main Battle Tank (Mk-1 & Mk-2)

thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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Our upgrade frequency is similar to the Russians. The Russians inducted their T-90s in the 90s, whereas we inducted ours in the 2000s. So it's natural they will upgrade before we do. Otoh, we are going to upgrade our Su-30s long before they will upgrade theirs. So we are ahead in this area. It's all about who inducts first.
We'll never know whether the upgrade timelines are advanced (if at all) because the babus realised that they kept IAF inadequate, or whether IAF realised that the MKIs were inadequate or a combination of both.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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We'll never know whether the upgrade timelines are advanced (if at all) because the babus realised that they kept IAF inadequate, or whether IAF realised that the MKIs were inadequate or a combination of both.

Regardless of whether they are tanks, ships or aircraft, the main upgrade happens at mid-life. So that's typically 15-20 years. Russia's T-90s stretch from the early 90s to today. India's begins in the 2000s, so they are in the process of being upgraded soon. Arjun's upgrade will happen sometime around the 2030s, although there is still a possibility the Mk1 may see some Mk1A upgrades even earlier, although I feel if they begin the process after Mk1As are delivered, then we will end up in 2030 anyway. Russian Su-30s are quite new, most of them will see major upgrades long after MKI's upgrade.
 
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thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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Regardless of whether they are tanks, ships or aircraft, the main upgrade happens at mid-life. So that's typically 15-20 years. Russia's T-90s stretch from the early 90s to today. India's begins in the 2000s, so they are in the process of being upgraded soon. Arjun's upgrade will happen sometime around the 2030s, although there is still a possibility the Mk1 may see some Mk1A upgrades even earlier, although I feel if they begin the process after Mk1As are delivered, then we will end up in 2030 anyway. Russian Su-30s are quite new, most of them will see major upgrades long after MKI's upgrade.
Looking at how Pak has got a good tank from China in the form of VT-4, which is making IA go for Arjun, we are in for big trouble with China equipping Pak as China is always going to be ahead of us in the foreseeable future. We have to buy expensive stuff or make our own while China finances Pak and gives them enough good stuff to make them fight well for a few days. Plus the help from the Chinese intelligence and cyber capabilities will be very important.
 

Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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Looking at how Pak has got a good tank from China in the form of VT-4, which is making IA go for Arjun, we are in for big trouble with China equipping Pak as China is always going to be ahead of us in the foreseeable future. We have to buy expensive stuff or make our own while China finances Pak and gives them enough good stuff to make them fight well for a few days. Plus the help from the Chinese intelligence and cyber capabilities will be very important.
I dont think mere 120 or so Arjun will make much drastic deference as on today. Also 124 MK1a orders will not complete immediately too. Even we managed to full fill Arjun's orders on time, 5-7 years from now we will be left out only around 250 tanks, still not sufficient.
 

thinkingcap81

Member
Jun 2, 2019
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India
I dont think mere 120 or so Arjun will make much drastic deference as on today. Also 124 MK1a orders will not complete immediately too. Even we managed to full fill Arjun's orders on time, 5-7 years from now we will be left out only around 250 tanks, still not sufficient.
Agreed. But what is the timeline of PA getting the 300 odd VT-4 tanks? In 5 years we might upgrade the T90s. Pak will need more AKs in adequate numbers which their economy will not support.
 
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randomradio

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Looking at how Pak has got a good tank from China in the form of VT-4, which is making IA go for Arjun, we are in for big trouble with China equipping Pak as China is always going to be ahead of us in the foreseeable future. We have to buy expensive stuff or make our own while China finances Pak and gives them enough good stuff to make them fight well for a few days. Plus the help from the Chinese intelligence and cyber capabilities will be very important.

China funding Pakistan is a big risk. Gotta see what happens there over the next few years.

VT-4 is more or less equivalent to the T-90. The T-90 can be upgraded to match it or even exceed it. The new T-90M easily exceeds the VT-4 already.

IA is not going for the Arjun just because PA bought the VT-4, it's actually the opposite. The Arjun Mk1A precedes the VT-4 by many years, pretty much a decade. Mk1A was in fact supposed to be ready in 2014 as per DRDO's original time frame.
 
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thinkingcap81

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China funding Pakistan is a big risk. Gotta see what happens there over the next few years.

VT-4 is more or less equivalent to the T-90. The T-90 can be upgraded to match it or even exceed it. The new T-90M easily exceeds the VT-4 already.

IA is not going for the Arjun just because PA bought the VT-4, it's actually the opposite. The Arjun Mk1A precedes the VT-4 by many years, pretty much a decade. Mk1A was in fact supposed to be ready in 2014 as per DRDO's original time frame.
Yes, but the procurement of Arjun might be more justified because of the VT4s. Hellfire has been tweeting about it. Plus the bridges weren't so ready by 2014.

But you're right about the VT4s being procured by PA in response to the Arjun. Probably their AK Mk2 designs are facing some issues which are not being rectified.
 
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randomradio

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Yes, but the procurement of Arjun might be more justified because of the VT4s. Hellfire has been tweeting about it. Plus the bridges weren't so ready by 2014.

@Falcon's opinion of creating Arjun BCTs is not affordable. The tank is very expensive and doesn't provide the same level of increased capability versus cost when compared to the T-90. It also requires more R&D money to complete the Bhim SPG, but the IA has instead gone for the Catapult route. What he wants is going to happen with the FRCV though.

In case the FRCV is delayed, an Arjun Mk2 with an autoloader is also in the works, and we could see another brigade ordered after Mk1A. Or just another brigade of the Mk1A itself. Regardless, as of today, the plan is to end both T-90 and Arjun production by 2028. The IA hopes to begin the induction of FRCV from 2027, but that's way too unrealistic. So an additional brigade as a stop gap could happen.

But you're right about the VT4s being procured by PA in response to the Arjun. Probably their AK Mk2 designs are facing some issues which are not being rectified.

PA armour is a bit weird. They have 2 armoured divisions and 2 mechanised divisions, and each of them have a different tank, the T-80, Al-Zarrar, AK and VT-4. It's like they are not happy with any of their tanks. I have no clue what their plan is when the FRCV shows up, because this system requires a level of investment the Pakistanis cannot afford and the Chinese won't bother funding due to the expense.