Akash Surface to Air Missile System

randomradio

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No. More SPYDER units are coming in, MRSAM is also being inducted. Akash is not a threat .

Akash is for static locations & has certain issues arising out of QA & QC. That remains a cause for concern.

SPYDER for the IAF or IA?

AFAIK, IA will be going for DRDO QRSAM for formations and Akash for static areas. IAF, the LLQRM requirement is for SPYDERs and not Akash, so it makes no difference there.

Point being, the choice for the IA is between Akash and SPYDER for static areas, and QRSAM and SPYDER for formations. But IA has gone for 2 regiments of Akash, which is eating into SPYDER's share, which may or may not happen.
 

randomradio

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The reason for the hit job cannot be more clear :

Indian Air Force to get deadly Akash missiles! Places order for 7 squadrons of Made-in-India missile system

By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | Published: December 3, 2019 6:29:18 PM

The Missile System which has been designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and produced and commissioned by Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL), Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has been performing well in integrated Air Defence (AD) exercises conducted from time to time by IAF.

Dismissing reports in a section of the media about the systems which are supporting ground system, sources said that “maintenance is not carried out by DRDO but the Defence PSUs.(PTI)

Satisfied by the consistent and reliable performance by the indigenous Akash Missile System, Surface to Air Missile (SAM) an additional order for seven more squadrons have been placed by the Indian Air Force recently. This is by far the highest order placed by the service for the Akash Missile System.

The Missile System which has been designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and produced and commissioned by Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL), Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has been performing well in integrated Air Defence (AD) exercises conducted from time to time by IAF.

The number of missiles fired in Ex- Vayu Shakti 2019 or Crossbow-18, the Akash Missile System had successfully intercepted and destroyed unmanned aerial targets.

In Ex Crossbow-18 the indigenous Akash Missile System was fielded along with imported SAM weapon system under integrated Air defence operations and it surpassed all expectations. The made in India Akash Weapon System has proved its performance capability and reliability which has been successfully demonstrated by the IAF.

There were some teething problems related to extensive field usage faced by squadrons based in the North East and after several rounds of meetings between the user, DRDO and the defence PSUs BDL and BEL and other agencies involved, a mechanism has been evolved to carry out the maintenance together. However, due to the inclement weather in North East, there have been delays in carrying out the repairs.

To a question about serviceability and maintainability of the system, a former IAF officer explained “The BDL/BEL are Defence PSUs and are responsible for the maintainability of the system. There is no design issue with the system which has been designed and developed by DRDO.” And, “a proper ecosystem has been evolved between the user –IAF, DRDO, BEL/BDL from development to commissioning.”

In case of any faults, proper investigations are carried out by DRDO and issues resolved with the joint efforts of the user IAF, BEL/BDL, and other agencies which also included design change.

Sources said that prototypes were made and tested in one equipment and after successful testing and clearance by Quality Assurance (QA), produced in the required quantity and retrofitted in equipment in unit locations. The Missile system comes with combat ground systems which are directly responsible for engaging the threat and supporting ground systems to facilitate the readiness of the combat systems.

Dismissing reports in a section of the media about the systems which are supporting ground system, sources said that “maintenance is not carried out by DRDO but the Defence PSUs. However, design solutions towards the main combat systems are given high priority and addressing the issues related to the other supporting ground system was taken simultaneously.”

Indian Air Force to get deadly Akash missiles! Places order for 7 squadrons of Made-in-India missile system

I think it has more to do with this one:
Defence Ministry to decide on Army's Rs 10,000 crore Akash missiles proposal for Pakistan, China border

The IA Akash order directly eats into SPYDER.
 
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_Anonymous_

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Hukum (@hukum2082) Tweeted:
The @firstpost report by Yatish Yadav on problems plaguing the Akash Missile in @IAF_MCC service is an arms lobby sponsored hit-job. It is an attempt to weaken the government's thrust on procurement of indigenous weapon systems.I elaborate in the thread below :- ( )

Hukum (@hukum2082) Tweeted:
Allegation 1

The report states that "On 3rd June, 2018, Akash Missile's Transportation and Loading Vehicle (TLV), parked at an Air Force Squadron, was jolted after a sudden burst of tube followed by shearing off wheel bolts due to impact. ( )

Hukum (@hukum2082) Tweeted:
Clarification 1

Tubeless Tire of an Ashok Leyland Missile Carrier burst due to weight/over pressure/routine wear and as the weight landed on the rims , the wheel bolts gave away.Happens on Indian Highways everyday. ( )


Excellent point by point rebuttal of the article carried by First Post y'day.

Do read the entire thread.
 
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Tatvamasi

Well-Known member
Jan 5, 2018
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Hukum (@hukum2082) Tweeted:
The @firstpost report by Yatish Yadav on problems plaguing the Akash Missile in @IAF_MCC service is an arms lobby sponsored hit-job. It is an attempt to weaken the government's thrust on procurement of indigenous weapon systems.I elaborate in the thread below :- ( )

Hukum (@hukum2082) Tweeted:
Allegation 1

The report states that "On 3rd June, 2018, Akash Missile's Transportation and Loading Vehicle (TLV), parked at an Air Force Squadron, was jolted after a sudden burst of tube followed by shearing off wheel bolts due to impact. ( )

Hukum (@hukum2082) Tweeted:
Clarification 1

Tubeless Tire of an Ashok Leyland Missile Carrier burst due to weight/over pressure/routine wear and as the weight landed on the rims , the wheel bolts gave away.Happens on Indian Highways everyday. ( )


Excellent point by point rebuttal of the article carried by First Post y'day.

Do read the entire thread.
Did he copy from here?
 

Milspec

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Servicability is okay, but support and QA/QC issues are there. We have seen it in the Agni-3 test lately. Akash firing has been by and large good enough.

The problem has a similar pattern as that of ALH - poor QA/QC with poor service support. When I say QA/QC it is both of production and the spares that are provided. We lost customers of INSAS in Nepal and Oman, we lost ALH from poor services in Ecuador. Fortunately for the DPSUs, the Indian Forces have no choice but to pay the price that is exacted from the poor production practices of DPSUs in terms of lives lost/costs incurred.

All the best.
Hope you are doing well, Your visits to the forum are getting shorter as time progresses.

I completely agree with your assessment as an end-user that your experience of quality for PSU related tools have been abysmal, what you have referred to as QC/QA.

In most DPSU's production and Quality are two different entities which are almost in an adversarial role, Operations/Production usually comes out on top focusing of delivery rather than delivering the best product out there.

I am not going to lecture on TQM tools or lean-sig sigma here, but in the context of the article presented that I originally commented upon, the issues described are really not quality issues.
Again that doesn't mean DPSU's have quality issues, just the ones elaborated in the article are not quality-related issues.

Two aspects of quality I wanted to focus on COPQ, and Initial customer quality.

Initial customer quality > is the number of defects reported by the customer/Field Service tech for a product. This can be minuscule items such malfunctioning buttons, poor connectors, to medium/major issues like seeker malfunction, engine failure, structural failures etc.

The Cost of Poor Quality> Is related to Factory defects (that are found and reworked), Warranty claims and concessions (ICQ money value), and Scrap.


Both of these are important as one focusses on the customer's experience with the system while the other looks holistically at the major costs involved in poor quality.

So to improve the quality of the system as a quality manager I will look to do two things. Short term JDI/Root Cause analysis that focuses on top three hitters on the ICQ Pareto, And long term Projects focussing on top three hitters for the COPQ in rupees value. In some cases, we might have common culprits for both, when such an event happens that takes the highest priority as that brings the most bang for the buck for Perceived quality as well as cost improvements.


In this article, issues like cracks in intake caps in one regiment dummy missile, and one TLV shearing Lug Bolts, are a one-off issue which will be obscurely sitting in a Pareto in the end as they are not repetitive in nature. They might not be even related to quality as it could be a function of improper torque applied, of mishandling of caps themselves.
The one quality issue which demands a projects seems to be the Air compressor retrofit which seems to be valid although how many such instances have happened was not at all elaborated in the article. So we don't know the actual impact of the defect or even the root cause.
Lastly, there is a major issue of Seeker malfunction reported by the CAG in 2014 tests, which delivered via the same exact quality mechanism I listed above through a Long term Project for the New seeker, which subsequently was validated by 5 consecutive successful tests in 2017 shows that the DPSU's actually committed to a serious project for Quality and Reliability.

My post was not in the defence of the DPSU's, but a critique of the author, who is using witty writing and cherry-picking field failures to malign a system. To me, it seemed like a hit piece.

I have never been to a BDL of BEL factory, but the next part of your post is about ALH, and I know the parent company a little better from personal experience. While I agree with your assessment of historic poor logistical and Service support for ALH platform, I am quite confident in assuring you that substantial improvement has been made on the ALH logistical, service and after-sales side by HAL and going forward HAL will have a focused ecosystem from Banglore helicopter division that will directly support all rotary platforms. We can pick that up in the ALH/LUH thread.
 

randomradio

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Ashwin

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Akash NG trials this year

BEL Chairman M V Gowtama confirmed that the first trials of the upgraded version of surface-to-air missile (SAM) Akash NG (new generation) will be held this year.
“Akash SAM is the best in the business and it has performed so well during all the recent exercises. The Akash NG will be ready for trials this year,” Gowtama said.
Akash NG is likely to have a range around 50 km, while its predecessors can hit targets up to 25 km. DRDO had tested-fired Akash-1S, a new variant of the missile recently, with a desi seeker onboard.
Additional orders

When asked about the status of the additional Akash squadrons already cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council, Gowtama said the orders will be placed soon.
“Additional orders for seven squadrons worth around Rs 6000 crore is expected any time soon. This again shows the confidence the users have in the indigenous SAM system,” Gowtama added.

Homegrown BEL system to ring death knell for rogue drones