Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

marich01 said:
The more versatile & diverse the better. Every such system is highly software centric, each product comes with unique features that you gain knowledge about by using only because the user manuals are available only when you buy the system & then get trained on it. Traditionally we have had no MIC or experience in developing complex weapon systems. DRDO itself research from open literature and then build things up step by step. So how are you going to arrive even in a benchmark config, a PDR stage when you simply have not enough knowledge on military gears & advantages features etc offered by different product?

Next, your in house knowledge base expand with your diverse inventory, it also helps to create job specific jugaad config that is fit for the diverse challenges put forward by the different environment across the 4 corners of the country. Every single battlefield terrain poses a different set of challenge and we have almost all imaginable terrain from snow to desert to high altitude to plains to mountains in our country. One size fits all will not work in our case.

I do not get why many of you do not wish to have even more diverse portfolio of weapon systems in a world where many things are denied to us via specific control regimes? Domestic weapon making has just started, DRDo rarely made any tactical battlefield weapon before, so expecting a 100% perfect job that deserve mass order right away is mistaken viewpoint. Neither a huge order placing nor the reluctance to diversification of inventory is ideal. Buy a medium size lot of each and try to build up stock with small supplementary order while improving the system batch by batch is the best way. Look back again after 10-15 years & you will find a huge inventory built up already that is not even much used.
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Your points are fairly valid and considering the nascent stages of weapons development that India is going through in addition to its challenging operations model (N-constraints), I would agree with the arguments and reasoning. However, considering the amount that was going to be spent wouldn't it have been better to order something that could be needed in the near future ?

I pitched the SCALP as an example as it is a good weapon for targeting hardened to semi-hardened structures and carries 450kgs payload. The Broach system has proved itself during the recent conflict as well. The line is open and the SOW was battle proven with both the DA airframes capable of carrying it. LMM in terms of necessity would notch lower imo.
 
Shan said:
The deal went through. The UK was probably promised that the order would follow and they would not be left hanging. MoD and MEA babus kept their word.
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Clearly this was quid pro quo for something trade-related the UK did for us. I just hope the US doesn't take a cue from this and start pushing NASAMS 2 once again as part of a trade settlement :)
 
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Speedster1 said:
Clearly this was quid pro quo for something trade-related the UK did for us. I just hope the US doesn't take a cue from this and start pushing NASAMS 2 once again as part of a trade settlement :)
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Earlier I questioned why Indian defence analysts and enthusiasts suffered from fatigue (with many simply washing out). I understand now. There are too many parameters with deals and angles all around. Here is to hoping 🍻
 
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Shan said:
Your points are fairly valid and considering the nascent stages of weapons development that India is going through in addition to its challenging operations model (N-constraints), I would agree with the arguments and reasoning. However, considering the amount that was going to be spent wouldn't it have been better to order something that could be needed in the near future ?
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This view is somewhat hindsight centric, and in case of warfare if we are to choose a definitive solution, we would never arrive at THE perfect solution. What is made today as highly reliable can be of lesser effect tomorrow , a new solution can come and yet the next day can become valid again. By day here I mean the different phases of a long drawn conflict.
Since the entire affair of both the development and use cases are highly dynamic, a diversified inventory can play good role despite the added other issues (like more maintenance, less people trained on a single system etc). A specific situation in battlefield can demand a specific solution which in turn is risky to rely on any single or limited solution. In peacetime we can think about the best solution but here again we will have many opinions out of which some will be adopted & some discarded. That is for the more qualified people to decide about.

Here the focus of the user is also crucial. Someone involved in the battlefield be it the soldier fighting or his commander, for them its a zero sum game. At that point there is no scope or freedom to ponder about future use. You either kill or get killed, 0 or 1 as outcome. So either the system works as intended or its immediately replaced with another. This makes the mil gear suitability on the job way more demanding.

Shan said:
I pitched the SCALP as an example as it is a good weapon for targeting hardened to semi-hardened structures and carries 450kgs payload. The Broach system has proved itself during the recent conflict as well. The line is open and the SOW was battle proven with both the DA airframes capable of carrying it. LMM in terms of necessity would notch lower imo.
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We have to find out what the intended use is for this LMM. As per todays news, the army air defence is looking for it. So they must have a role specified for this system. Similarly this system alone would not be the sole adopted system. This system will play one role in an overall AD strategy alongside several other ad element where each system will have its own role to play. So the key part is the overall strategy with which you plan to do a specific job you are tasked with. The actual system is one tool in the whole process that can be swapped with another better tool during active combat if needed.
case in point, if to counter the encroaching drones we deployed only dew system & ciws almost certainly the plan would have failed. Instead we had layered AD, jamming, possibly some jugaads like multi machine guns antidrone firing with ciws and even snipers dispersed around to take down drones. Use of so many elements together created the effective strategy via great synergy of multi element use. That is the key. I can think about more high band jammers, more dew, better antidrone systems, many different band jammers addition later which would be further force multiplier. It helps in further evolution of a successfully used strategy that can keep you a step or 2 ahead of your adversary.
 
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TARA REK Brochure from Vigyan Vaibhav 2025
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TARA (TACTICAL ADVANCED RANGE AUGMENTATION)
ICOMM Identified as Development cum Production Partner for Project TARA (Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation) - DRDO & AIRFORCE

RECEIVED THE SUPPLY ORDER FOR
• IN GPS based Weapon - 18 Nos
• EO Seeker based Weapon - 9 Nos

SPECIFICATIONS
• Type : Air Launched, Long Range, Stand Off, Air to
Ground Weapon
• Mass : TARA 250 - 308 Kgs, TARA 450/500 - 546 Kgs, Kit Weight - 98 Kgs
• Carrying Capable Aircraft : Su 30 MKI, MiG-29K, Jaguar DARIN III, Tejas Mk1A
• Launch Envelope : 10000 ft to 45000 ft
• Range : 80 km
• Accuracy : UC- IIR Version< 3 m
• Special Features : Anti Jamming, Anti Spoofing, Drop & Forget
• Equivalent System : SPICE 1000 & Hammer



TARA REK ground testing on Jaguar DARIN II and MiG-29K (Courtesy : Delhi Defence Review) (Dated Unknown)
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TARA REK ground testing images from MoD 2023-24 Annual Report (Dated October 2025)
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Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation (TARA) kit is a long range precision guidance kit to convert existing unguided bombs into a long range precision guided weapons. It is capable of attacking & destruction of high value ground targets. During 2023, Ground Fitment Trial (GFT) were conducted for Indian Air Force by integrating TARA to Jaguar Darin II and for Indian Navy at INS Hansa (NFTS), Goa wherein TARA was integrated to MiG-29K.

TARA REK Images from Vigyan Vaibhav 2025

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LMM in action. A recent video of it undergoing sea and land demonstrations.


Thales in the UK, in collaboration with the UK Ministry of Defence, has successfully delivered a consecutive firing of Lightweight Multirole Missiles (LMM) at both air and sea targets. This firing was a first of its kind and demonstrates Thales’ expertise in the air defence and surface attack domain, with LMM pioneering the way in short range defence, providing a seamless back-to-back engagement of incoming threats, proving the true versatility and multi-role applications of the missile.
 
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Shan said:
LMM in action. A recent video of it undergoing sea and land demonstrations.


Thales in the UK, in collaboration with the UK Ministry of Defence, has successfully delivered a consecutive firing of Lightweight Multirole Missiles (LMM) at both air and sea targets. This firing was a first of its kind and demonstrates Thales’ expertise in the air defence and surface attack domain, with LMM pioneering the way in short range defence, providing a seamless back-to-back engagement of incoming threats, proving the true versatility and multi-role applications of the missile.
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So you see, the GUI, different modes of operation, some unique features are always there that you can gain experience about only by using such a product. Then if some feature if found very good, army can try to implement the same by in house research by hiring some company/reverse engg in case of hardware/or by enforcing DRDO like org. Overall it is impossible to right away implement unique set of features in a domestic product, DRDO gui softwares are usually made as rather crude, very basic with mil grade security in mind.

This is why it is better to always try to diversify inventory, these are all different tech products, very high tech mil grade to be precise. So it only adds to your own enrichment of experience that you can perhaps try to imitate later. Nobody else would let you trial full features easily, not even during army trials sometimes. Training mode of a software can keep many things locked. Since we do not have a lot of sourcing for Mil gears & many even fail our trials it is helpful to procure even small batches if a good system is on offer. This does not eat into domestic product numbers.
Tatvamasi said:
So @marich01 here posted this here first and twitter took it over i guess?! Thats some reach.
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I only told here and to neutron. Rest they got the wind about themselves I guess. Very rare for ASL presentation like that.
 
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marich01 said:
So you see, the GUI, different modes of operation, some unique features are always there that you can gain experience about only by using such a product. Then if some feature if found very good, army can try to implement the same by in house research by hiring some company/reverse engg in case of hardware/or by enforcing DRDO like org. Overall it is impossible to right away implement unique set of features in a domestic product, DRDO gui softwares are usually made as rather crude, very basic with mil grade security in mind.

This is why it is better to always try to diversify inventory, these are all different tech products, very high tech mil grade to be precise. So it only adds to your own enrichment of experience that you can perhaps try to imitate later. Nobody else would let you trial full features easily, not even during army trials sometimes. Training mode of a software can keep many things locked. Since we do not have a lot of sourcing for Mil gears & many even fail our trials it is helpful to procure even small batches if a good system is on offer. This does not eat into domestic product numbers.
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I understand your argument and reasoning.

Many of the things that you stated can be done domestically. There are some that only require investment with adequate capability available in the domestic talent pool. GUI to Operational Modes along with a corresponding sensor suites. The entire stack of software to hardware for such missiles and their corresponding vehicular launchers can be worked upon and evolved (within reasonable limits).

However, I am well aware of the kind of individuals involved as well as resources allocation that is prevalent in various state backed organisations.

Things are changing. I hope that such systems can emerge out of domestic industry. Let's see how things move. It would be disheartening if India was merely reduced to a follower of mil tech coming from abroad.
 
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