Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

South block said:
With that tiny warhead not possible
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Ashwin said:
Nope, its too small. Something heavy used.
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It is theoretically possible though, assuming such a mission was flown and all 4 hit the same place one after another. But this won't happen for a time sensitive mission and at least 1 of the 4 would be diverted towards one of the bunkers on the right side. SAAW is dual and quad packed. The SAT-SAAW has the ability to do this.
Ashwin said:
We dont have any LORA. There are just plans to acquire them.
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I am certain IAF has a small batch inducted hence BEL went on with jv. The chatter etc is for BEL to mfg those. Typical psu inner battle. BDL gets to mfg Icebreaker etc so why not BEL given they are already making Hammer. Our Govt controlled MIC is epic in this sense.
Now the question is when you already have missions flown in time bound manner, would you send one LORA unit firing from ground for just 1 target? Is it not far more prudent to have 1 brahmos do the job quickly as first strike under the same mission package ? Yes the cost effective part etc, but this is the first time they are doing serious preemptive action in 25 years.
Rajput Lion said:
BrahMos-A, most definitely!
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yes, replied in this. A more logical choice.
 
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marich01 said:
I am certain IAF has a small batch inducted hence BEL went on with jv. The chatter etc is for BEL to mfg those. Typical psu inner battle. BDL gets to mfg Icebreaker etc so why not BEL given they are already making Hammer. Our Govt controlled MIC is epic in this sense.
Now the question is when you already have missions flown in time bound manner, would you send one LORA unit firing from ground for just 1 target? Is it not far more prudent to have 1 brahmos do the job quickly as first strike under the same mission package ? Yes the cost effective part etc, but this is the first time they are doing serious preemptive action in 25 years.
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IAI has displayed an air-launched LORA adapted for the P-8I at Aero India this year. It's possible the IAF has some of this version too. AL-LORA reportedly weighs around 2.5t, same as Brahmos-A. I can't think of any other use case (surface launch) for both services, since they already have Brahmos/Pralay/other naval AShM et all for the job.
 
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marich01 said:
It is theoretically possible though, assuming such a mission was flown and all 4 hit the same place one after another. But this won't happen for a time sensitive mission and at least 1 of the 4 would be diverted towards one of the bunkers on the right side. SAAW is dual and quad packed. The SAT-SAAW has the ability to do this.
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Looking at the crater dont think so. It's not scattered but one big one.
marich01 said:
I am certain IAF has a small batch inducted hence BEL went on with jv. The chatter etc is for BEL to mfg those.
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No, they are just preparing for the order after the MoU. MoU doest mean order or manufacture.
Speedster1 said:
IAI has displayed an air-launched LORA adapted for the P-8I at Aero India this year. It's possible the IAF has some of this version too. AL-LORA reportedly weighs around 2.5t, same as Brahmos-A. I can't think of any other use case (surface launch) for both services, since they already have Brahmos/Pralay/other naval AShM et all for the job.
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No, it could have taken so much time to modify the MKI. We should have seen the evidence.

There is a clear case for LORA below the Pralay.

Pralay and Shaurya: Conventional Strike Surface-to-Surface Missiles

Pretty normal. AAD became Prahar/Pragati. And PDV became Pralay. When we tested PDV, I had predicted that its S to S variant will come like Prahar Derived from AAD. It came eventually. Air defense systems are built for quick response to moving target. Its same property can be used to suit...
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org
 
Ashwin said:
No, they are just preparing for the order after the MoU. MoU doest mean order or manufacture.
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From what I see, this case is similar to Hammer one, no local production of munitions takes off without IAF being fully satisfied with its operational use point and a small batch induction. Maybe we will know someday. This small batch is direct import I mean, not made by BEL. The laser beam riding manpad LBRM, IR VSHORADS is another example. In one report probably SCOD report, the word used was shortage, not unavailability. So obviously there are some stock that is not adequate for prolonged operational use or available with mandatory IC percentage locally.
 
marich01 said:
From what I see, this case is similar to Hammer one, no local production of munitions takes off without IAF being fully satisfied with its operational use point and a small batch induction. Maybe we will know someday. This small batch is direct import I mean, not made by BEL. The laser beam riding manpad LBRM, IR VSHORADS is another example. In one report probably SCOD report, the word used was shortage, not unavailability. So obviously there are some stock that is not adequate for prolonged operational use or available with mandatory IC percentage locally.
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Hammer was imported with the Rafale deal. In the case of VSHORADS and LBRM there were reports of emergency purchase imports. None for LORA, only appeared in AI and BEL MoU.
 
Ashwin said:
No, it could have taken so much time to modify the MKI. We should have seen the evidence.
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I guess we won't know for sure until Defexpo next year. But we would have seen at least a mock-up launcher (truck mounted/ISO container based, etc) if a surface launched config had been chosen. AL LORAs dimensions are small enough to be carried by F-16s so imo MKI shouldn't be a problem. And there's the commonality factor too.

 
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Ashwin said:
Hammer was imported with the Rafale deal. In the case of VSHORADS and LBRM there were reports of emergency purchase imports. None for LORA, only appeared in AI and BEL MoU.
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Yes all true , but considering IAF is very secretive as well as choosy about its procured stuff there could be surprises. Since Balakot they started this diversifying drive , loads of their trials now happen in ANC zone for the air launched systems.
One point is LORA being a ground launched system there would have been some news due to larger footprint and some media would have scooped it.
 
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Speedster1 said:
IAI has displayed an air-launched LORA adapted for the P-8I at Aero India this year. It's possible the IAF has some of this version too. AL-LORA reportedly weighs around 2.5t, same as Brahmos-A. I can't think of any other use case (surface launch) for both services, since they already have Brahmos/Pralay/other naval AShM et all for the job.
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Are P-8I supposed to do such missions considering the nos we got and importance of their maritime role? Can not see IAF being very enthusiastic about another 2.5 ton article integration.

MoD have some plan for the Airbus C295 apparently but not sure if it involves offensive role and whether such a transport jet can be modified for such a mission, as well as dual use obligation etc.
 
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marich01 said:
Yes all true , but considering IAF is very secretive as well as choosy about its procured stuff there could be surprises. Since Balakot they started this diversifying drive , loads of their trials now happen in ANC zone for the air launched systems.
One point is LORA being a ground launched system there would have been some news due to larger footprint and some media would have scooped it.
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I dont remember any surprises that we missed from IAF recently.

marich01 said:
Are P-8I supposed to do such missions considering the nos we got and importance of their maritime role? Can not see IAF being very enthusiastic about another 2.5 ton article integration.

MoD have some plan for the Airbus C295 apparently but not sure if it involves offensive role and whether such a transport jet can be modified for such a mission, as well as dual use obligation etc.
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AirLORA will be around ~1.5 ton
 
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marich01 said:
Are P-8I supposed to do such missions considering the nos we got and importance of their maritime role? Can not see IAF being very enthusiastic about another 2.5 ton article integration.
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Afaik no other P-8 operator has AL LORA in its inventory. Israel certainly doesn't. Since Rafael introduced the concept at AI 25, the IN is the most likely user or atleast interested in the idea. But I see your point about its primary role of LRMP.
 
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Speedster1 said:
The PAF's epic battering at the hands of the IAF effectively puts the PLA on notice. PL-15 won't save their hide against India. We clearly have a short-term and long-term strategy to deal with them. Heck, PLA may have to review their Taiwan 'unification' plans now.
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Taiwan doesn't even possess the anti-denial and anti-air capability that we have. Taiwan can be easily taken over by the PLAAF and PLAN. What Taiwan needs to focus on is creating ambush killzones like what the Pakistanis have done against us.
 
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A system that is not even cleared trials, let alone certification process & QA , or even sold by the company (public disclosure) was deployed ? I think we all can see the credibility.
But stranger things have happened so fingers crossed in a rather dynamic situation.
 
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