S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

[randomradio]

If our previous debate, if you remember, I already told you that we are going gov-to-gov deal route with the French and MRFA is scrapped for good

Btw, my opinon back in 2020. Post 322.

Post in thread 'Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF)'

Dec 4, 2020

Didn't know ACM Raha was a fanboy. I learn new things every day.

Anyway, "he said medium, he sees Rafale".

When he made the comment, in 2016, MWF didn't even exist.

Let's get the actual quote, shall we?

India needs 200-250 more Rafale fighters, 36 not enough: IAF chief Arup Raha

The Air Chief Marshal also rued that the tender for the much-needed “force multiplier” mid air refuellers had to be withdrawn.

indianexpress.com

December 29, 2016
“But we have just ordered 36 aircraft and we require more aircraft in this middle weight category to give entire spectrum of capability,” he said,

He...

• Ashwin

• 

I'd definitely agree that the tender should be cancelled and those "few" squadrons you mentioned, numbering at least 9 according to me, should come in through GTG. But then I'm fine with a tender as well, the delay will allow the induction of the Rafale F4.2 instead of the F3R or F4.1.

Looks like this came true as well.

 

[Aniruddha]

What's the delivery timeline for remaining 4th and 5th squadrons?
If 5 more squadrons are to be ordered, then ig they will only start delivery from 2028-2029 (if deal is signed in 2026).

But realistically, 6th squadron will only come in 2029-2030 ig.
Again, it will be a Multi billion $ deal.

Expected to be delivered by end of this year.

 

[randomradio]

Kusha will take time for testing, mass production and operational deployment so it makes sense to go with some more S400. But imo, Kusha in several aspects especially in terms of the long range radar will be superior to the S400.

@randomradio @Rajput Lion @babablacksheep from what we know about Kusha how will its radar and kinematic performance compare to the latest version of HQ9? How will it compare to Patriot?

Yeah, Kusha's development will take until 2030 to complete. User trials, modifications, contract, and deliveries will take us to 2033 or so. This new S-400 deal sits in between. There's no real limit to how many ADS units we need as well, so more the better. I'm hoping for a third contract of 2-3 regiments.

I hope we manufacture the missiles in-house too.

As for specs, let's see. Logic says more advanced, but SAMs are made to defeat missiles, not compete with other SAMs. Reliability matters more.

 

[Thunder]

Source- Disrupting Russian Air Defence Production: Reclaiming the Sky

 

[Thunder]

Supply chain of 40N6 Homing Head and Missile control Systems

 

[spice]

Indian Air Force gets defence board nod to buy 5 S-400s from Russia

The board, headed by defence secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh, accepted the IAF proposal which will now go to the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC).| India News

www.hindustantimes.com

By Shishir Gupta

India currently has three S-400 systems with another two expected to be inducted into the Indian armed forces this year.

The defence ministry is now waiting for IAF and the Indian Army’s proposal to buy 13 Russian Pantsir S-1 self-propelled missile systems, which counter medium range surface to air missiles, short range rockets and kamikaze drones, the people cited above added. While 10 Pantsir system will be purchased by IAF to protect the 10 S-400 systems that Indian armed forces will ultimately have, three will be purchased by the army to tackle cruise missiles, attack helicopters, loitering ammunition, armed drones, rockets and short range missiles on the borders.​

 

[Ashwin]

Someone in the system is really advocating for Russian air defense. They have tailwind with the success of the system during op Sindoor.

 

[Speedster1]

The Russians are lavish in their praise for GoIs 'independent foriegn policy' (duly amplified by state propoganda networks like RT) for a reason.

They know they can squeeze more dollars out of us via deals for underperforming systems like Pantsir. All it takes is a little flattery.

 

[Shan]

The Russians are lavish in their praise for GoIs 'independent foriegn policy' (duly amplified by state propoganda networks like RT) for a reason.

They know they can squeeze more dollars out of us via deals for underperforming systems like Pantsir. All it takes is a little flattery.

How much Roubles to change this post, Comrade Speedster? Pantsir is goood now, Da? Pantsir kills are west propaganda.

 

[Saaho]

2 too many squadrons in my opinion, directly eating into potential Kusha orders down the line. Plus, the remaining 2 squadrons from the original order is yet to be delivered.

Kusha is not going to be ready before 2039. These are bare minimum.

 

[randomradio]

Someone in the system is really advocating for Russian air defense. They have tailwind with the success of the system during op Sindoor.

A lot easier to integrate. Pantsir is war proven and is plug and play with the S-400's C2.

 

[Aniruddha]

Kusha is not going to be ready before 2039. These are bare minimum.

M1 interceptor already test fired.
Let me guess, your source must be V Thakur who simps on Russi maal like no tomorrow.

 

[lmaoxd]

A lot easier to integrate. Pantsir is war proven and is plug and play with the S-400's C2.

War proven? yea war proven to be mediocre if not outright bad? the amount of pantsir kills the ukranian army has is insane. Especially for a system that is designed to take out the smaller targets. Id much rather spend a little longer integrating the akash and the others rather than the underperforming pantsir.

 

[Thunder]

Kusha is not going to be ready before 2039. These are bare minimum.

Its development will be completed before 2035 IMO but service induction...idk
if it gets QRSAM/Akash-NG treatment then yes (maybe 2038+)

 

[Aniruddha]

Its development will be completed before 2035 IMO but service induction...idk
if it gets QRSAM/Akash-NG treatment then yes (maybe 2038+)

5 Squadrons have already been cleared for procurement, induction would be way before 2035, something like 2029-30.

 

[Thunder]

5 Squadrons have already been cleared for procurement, induction would be way before 2035, something like 2029-30.

Hopefully
5 squadrons won't cut it.
Mission sudershan chakra will have both defensive and offensive vectors.
Strategic SAMs will play crucial role in our AD bubble.
Borders+MoD assets+Cities and industries. all of these will demand atleast 20+ Squadrons of kusha itself, If not double.

 

[randomradio]

War proven? yea war proven to be mediocre if not outright bad? the amount of pantsir kills the ukranian army has is insane. Especially for a system that is designed to take out the smaller targets. Id much rather spend a little longer integrating the akash and the others rather than the underperforming pantsir.

Some 40 Pantsirs recorded destroyed after four years of war? That's gonna make for some really good kill-loss ratio.

Don't get suckered in by Western propaganda. They fear this system.

Akash isn't a replacement for Pantsir, one is an MRSAM, the other is AAA/SPAD-GMS, basically CIWS. It does the job of the L70 or Biho, so it's a replacement for L70 and maybe Shilka units. We are likely to see some more ordered by the army, they are in the market for 5 units before indigenous systems come in.

 

[randomradio]

Its development will be completed before 2035 IMO but service induction...idk
if it gets QRSAM/Akash-NG treatment then yes (maybe 2038+)

5 Squadrons have already been cleared for procurement, induction would be way before 2035, something like 2029-30.

The answer's in between. M3 is expected to begin testing in 2028, ie, after 2028, and it's gonna take 2 years to finish tests and 2 more years to produce.

 

[randomradio]

Hopefully
5 squadrons won't cut it.
Mission sudershan chakra will have both defensive and offensive vectors.
Strategic SAMs will play crucial role in our AD bubble.
Borders+MoD assets+Cities and industries. all of these will demand atleast 20+ Squadrons of kusha itself, If not double.

Minimum 10 guaranteed.

 

[Speedster1]

from what we know about Kusha how will its radar and kinematic performance compare to the latest version of HQ9? How will it compare to Patriot?

For one, Kusha will feature a dual pulse interceptor with TVC + boost stage. This should give it much better endgame maneuverability compared to the single stage SRM found on S-400 missile family (except perhaps 40N6).

Also, it will likely feature the X-band AESA seeker from Akash-NG.

I don't believe thd latest HQ-9BE variant has DP propulsion or ARH seekers currently. (Although, the Chinese reportedly have a more advanced HQ-9C in the works)

Afaik, only the US SM-3 has a similar airframe config, although with a far better/wider performance envelope.

I'd imagine the Kusha's radar performance would be pegged against the LB-MFSTAR of the B8 MRSAM which in itself is quite substantial.