Operation Sindoor: Aftermath
- Thread starter Defc0n
- Start date
Article 243, constitutional amendments already on the pakistani parliament's table for approval.
Essentially makes munir position a constitutional one and might even shift the control of forces from president to himself. Also paved the way for continuity.
I wonder what role Trump is playing behind the scenes there.
Makes sense. In the backdrop of SDR and SATCOM updates on our sukhois
Whatever is happening is unprecedented. I don’t think we as a nation have witnessed anything like this before. Even after something as severe as Kargil, we didn’t do this. This is probably the highest ever in terms of raw tension and possibility of a conflict that we have ever been in.
Now, as far as Munir is concerned, I won’t be surprised if he does what bull headed Pakistanis have so often done - open a front with India just because he wants to!
The “stunts” that @Hellfire mentioned in his tweet could take many forms -
1. Terrorist/SSG attack.
2. Attack on some military target by PA/PAF.
3. Most significant - something from BD side, I read one of their ships have docked in BD.
Let’s see form it takes. But I have a feeling that things are going to get kinetic before 2025 ends.
Not even the Rafale will get satcom until the F4 std. HAL's upgrade roadmap for MKI does not include satcom either, only SDR afaik.
CEC should still be possible if the third-party target designation (via TDL) capability tested on Tejas MK1 is ported over to MKI as part of the UPG program.
What ever was employed during Op Sindoor can't be employed the second time. Normally this is a process which takes months and years. But seeing the current geopolitical situation they seem to do it fast.
I think it's more of flying tactics, payload selection, and air defence upgradation under sudarshan chakra.
Soon after Op Sindhoor, Dassault share price increased, Chinese company fell..
Trump didn't mention whose plane was shot ..
India negotiating with france for more Rafales in make in India..
Had a good laugh..
It's good in a sense. The ambiguity is gone. It's a military run state now.
Easy to fight a battle b/w military ruled vs democracy, as opposed to a military dictatorship hiding behind democratic puppet govt.
Taking the glove off can very easily be justified. Dare I say, even a preemptive strike (though very unlikely - probably in the case of intelligence of a Pak strike or something significant) can be justified thanks to this move.
Yup. And the west can hardly do moral posturing now. They have a whole history of going against military rules, even if unnecessary. Meanwhile one near is our enemy.
Taking the glove off can very easily be justified. Dare I say, even a preemptive strike (though very unlikely - probably in the case of intelligence of a Pak strike or something significant) can be justified thanks to this move.
And China is already an adversary, so not point in catering to their perspective as long as we have the capability to go beyond MCD against china and have ability to do substantial damage .
But But.. I don't think we are gonna see any preemptive move unless we are 100% sure of its necessity. Reason being Sudarshan chakra. But, this heightened tensions is good in a different way, even if it doesn't lead to a clash in near future.
Good in a sense that our military-industry-bearacratic-govt establishment might finally wake up after seeing return of military dictatorship in pakistan. Also, takes the very convenient soundbyte position of some who call for "talks" with Pakistani govt.
And it's not just about procuring weapons. But systematic changes in industrial policies, ramping up wartime goods. Building up civilian infrastructure for safety. Build protocols to safeguard citizens against external and internal threats. Update intra ministerial protocols to be ready against threats. Modernise BSF along with army. And biggest of all... The military camps all over India might become efficient and weed out the rot of Beauracracy and Corruption (vendors and tenders for camps) from inside. Cause it happens. It's at the level which is okay for peacetime ( a daily need procurement officer letting know of the needs in advance etc).. but can be potential hinderance during wartime.
It also helps in SIR drive and ultimately NPC, NRC. Two must needs. But it takes time and hence i believe that India won't do anything in near future untill it's ready. [ Cause threat just became real now unlike vilified and called as a warmongering earlier.]
I would like your pov on the fact that.. since munirs position is all but enshrined as supreme now.. does it leave any desperate need for him to divert domestic attention by provoking us. What do you say?
The main question is this, who benefits if India gets embroiled in a war?
Munir is not working in the best interest of Pakistan, he is a certified puppet of US right now. This is not going down well with people within Pakistan military establishment (see @Hellfire ‘s post).
Few things don’t make immediate sense, let’s list them down —
1. Sudden urge of US to get bagram, why now?
2. Pakistan opening a front with AFG all of a sudden.
3. US mentioning “Pakistan testing nukes secretly” — was that one of Trump’s brain
?4. (Related to 3.) India picking up on this and issuing a statement — the language looked like us creating a “probable cause” leaning on the back of “Trump’s statement”.
5. Sir Creek comments - Our EEZ will be in a jeopardy in case something happens there, common denominator in terms of interest - again, US with their oil and gas exploration dream in Pakistan.
Now, what are the direct benefits of opening a front with India from Pakistan’s perspective — None.
Now, what are the direct benefits of opening a front with India from Munir’s perspective — quite a few,
1. Solidifying his position with US.
2. He will have US/CIA blessing which he can use to milk Pakistan establishment and economy.
3. A conflict with India ensures that entire military is focused on getting their a## handed to them - no one would want his position then.
4. His own mental perspective - revenge for Sindoor, he knows what his forces faced.
Benefits from US’s perspective —
1. Weaken Indian government, it is clear now that they understand that GoI is not willing to play ball.
2. Ensure safety for their business interests in Pakistan.
3. Undermine India’s current doctrine, offensive defence under nuclear threshold. The comments on India-Pak being on brink of a nuclear war, Pak testing Nukes are to deter Indian action going forward.
4. India’s all out military preparations and drills have spooked US and Pak. (Hence, 3)
Do note, that US has a history of overtly siding with Pak — 1971.
Now, why your point about war readiness is valid but that’s not something that’s sustainable in the long run. Also. Things that truly matter right now, our squadron strength, submarine strength (SSNs and SSBNs) won’t be procured of gain momentum because of this. This also puts strain on our economy, so I really doubt we are doing all this “just as deterrence”. Whether shooting war starts or not totally depends on Trump’s appetite for a royal mess — but going by the sheer number of exercises we are running, I am confident that there is intelligence of something.
Then again, my hypothesis this totally based on what I am reading - the real game will most definitely be 100x more complex and dark.
Naa karein paijaan. You are much behind in your information. Kindly update yourself with the latest kills paijaan. Now its full squad of Su-30MKI (18 planes) + 12 Rafales paijaan (By the way, this Maarkhoor guy claims to be an armoured corps officer in Pakistan Army
).
I think India should stop trying to fight Pakistan army.
Today tge Pakistan army went into self destruction.
The Government of Pakistan passed the 27th Ammendment.
As per the new law the Field Marshall will be the sole leader of all 3 forces.
The Field Marshall will be a lifetime position.
The Field Marshall will be protected by law same as the president.
Meaning he can only be impeached by the parliament and immune to any police or court case.
All this means that Asim Munir will be calling the shots all the way to his death bed.
Usually after 70 even doing a no 2 is as difficult as a military operation.
A decade from now Pakistan army and other two forces will have a guy on the top who will need bedpan.
Likewise military officers will have a limited incentive or interest in performance, as they know the position or army cheif is blocked by a guy whos there until his death, so why bother performing well and aim for promotions.
This is a recipe for self destruction.
Happy days
Today tge Pakistan army went into self destruction.
The Government of Pakistan passed the 27th Ammendment.
As per the new law the Field Marshall will be the sole leader of all 3 forces.
The Field Marshall will be a lifetime position.
The Field Marshall will be protected by law same as the president.
Meaning he can only be impeached by the parliament and immune to any police or court case.
All this means that Asim Munir will be calling the shots all the way to his death bed.
Usually after 70 even doing a no 2 is as difficult as a military operation.
A decade from now Pakistan army and other two forces will have a guy on the top who will need bedpan.
Likewise military officers will have a limited incentive or interest in performance, as they know the position or army cheif is blocked by a guy whos there until his death, so why bother performing well and aim for promotions.
This is a recipe for self destruction.
Happy days
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