We have to consider a tech transfer issue is involved here as well as local mfg with approved supply chain & naturally for some material & possibly some high value machined items (relatively speaking) HAL would like to use the domestic sourcing or build up a domestic supply chain as opposed to approved supply chain of GE sourced from USA or EU. From experience many of such items are built in supply chain lines set up exclusively for GE where the supplier only use machinery of specific make & cater only the GE order, no other work can be done from such exclusive line & that line also has to be Nadcap certified. This means loss of business to pre approved supply chain vendors & in come cases even GE itself. So plenty of edges to iron out.
LCA AF Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions
- Thread starter Schwifty
- Start date
GE engine offer was to derail the Kavery project, when we defunded the Kavery their aim completed.
we may be able to buy a fully US made engine paying full price.
Don't think they will allow 414 to be produced in India that too with 80% TOT.
When Lockheed offered us the F21 (a version of F16), they offered production line to be moved to India and will export from India. But later US govt blocked it.
We should start two new single engine stealth fighter project (Atleast till design phase if possible prototype too). One with Indo-french engine and another with AL51 as a fail safe.
then no body will be able to black mail us like this.
we may be able to buy a fully US made engine paying full price.
Don't think they will allow 414 to be produced in India that too with 80% TOT.
When Lockheed offered us the F21 (a version of F16), they offered production line to be moved to India and will export from India. But later US govt blocked it.
We should start two new single engine stealth fighter project (Atleast till design phase if possible prototype too). One with Indo-french engine and another with AL51 as a fail safe.
then no body will be able to black mail us like this.
PPP is cope unless you have economies of scale, and very high levels of localisation. GE has been mass-producing F414s for decades and have all supply chains established and no limitations on how much it can produce beyond capacity constraints. HAL Koraput will have to get in line new supply chains, get the employees trained, import the most expensive parts of the engine (core for example) apart from licensing fee to GE etc.
Yeah.. but which part is it that GE will"Ask" for more. The setting up local supply chain issue shouldn't be under a seperate tab. That's managed by HAL with GEs initial list of requirements etc..
Only the building of complex etc can be worh their help since it will require machinery we won't have. That cost remains fixed and most probably, imported off the shelves. ( Less need for revision) .
It's not like GE will be investing in india and build the ecosystem. They will just provide blueprint, help , teaching and maybe one or two senior engineers overlooking initially.
Their main job is licensing fee+ upfront payment for tech transferred.
Ideally msme vendor supply chain shall be led by HAL internally, with hopefully pvt involvement.
Or did I miss something here?
Radome test jig up next for LCA mk2 and AMCA
Hellfire repeatedly told that MK2 not gonna happen.
Negotiations to start soon on GE engine for Tejas Mk2 jets
French major Safran to power indigenous 5th-gen AMCAindianexpress.com
wait.... the AMCA radar is smaller than the LCA????? wth?? shouldn't we make it our second best radar after the su30mki?
It would truly be saddening if it were so. However, even though the chances of it being cancelled are less, they still exist. Geoeconomics is in a state of flux right now and making deals has become tough. GE-414 and its related technology is subject to U.S export controls. Let's see what happens.
There exists a view among a few analysts that Mk2 should be redesigned around a new engine. The downside is that it would delay the project by another 4 odd years.
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There are very few 100kn thrust class engines available for a re-design effort, and terms won't be less different than the present case.
Do not cite Rus engines which are obviously way bigger in dimension.
One aspect to ponder is why no russian engine is taken as a design choice from the off for any project. It hints at as development effort go the total endeavor is to go with a western design engine & associated knowledge base to learn from above all due to having (good or bad) experience of handling Russian engines for decades. No scope of Russian engine as a design choice despite better possible availability is considered by the hierarchy. The design house & other stakeholders want western design & some tech transfer as prerequisite, will not even accept anything else. The aim/hope is likely to fill gaps in the knowledge base gained & established within the country via some tech transfer. Time is not a constraint for the decision makers (unlike some of the wet pant we see dooming every day).
You can disagree with this observation.
Do not cite Rus engines which are obviously way bigger in dimension.
One aspect to ponder is why no russian engine is taken as a design choice from the off for any project. It hints at as development effort go the total endeavor is to go with a western design engine & associated knowledge base to learn from above all due to having (good or bad) experience of handling Russian engines for decades. No scope of Russian engine as a design choice despite better possible availability is considered by the hierarchy. The design house & other stakeholders want western design & some tech transfer as prerequisite, will not even accept anything else. The aim/hope is likely to fill gaps in the knowledge base gained & established within the country via some tech transfer. Time is not a constraint for the decision makers (unlike some of the wet pant we see dooming every day).
You can disagree with this observation.
His opinion may change, now that lot of private companies vying for AMCA..
We can give the production of AMCA, TEDBF & Rafale to private consortium..
HAL can continue with Mk1A, Su 30 upgrade + additional orders, BTA HTT 40, IJT , Mk2 ..
Production houses are getting sorted..
Now R&D, testing and certification needs to be expanded..
As long as you aren't have in-house f414 engine line with 80% indigenous content, Sayanora to mk2 program. Or else use Trex engine and redesign mk2,that will take around 10 years minimum from today.
we ll wait and see..
It's USAs loss if it let Mk2 program to die.
We won't trust for anything important thereafter..
If it fails, then Its loss of india, the same HF Marut incident.
For US, they have nato, soko, Singapore, Taiwan, Australia & pak to sell weapons.
We already made deal with Safran for JV engine..they are also ready with T rex ..
Picalmirand oil has already told us,france can deliver engine within a year..
Only certification with our Mk2 takes time.
We haven't started testing Mk2 yet. Difference is not much at this point.
JV engine will take time, redesigning mk2 for any other engine will take time. Easily 10 years indian standard timeline.
I agree with you. Lets utilize that time. Build a stealth air frame. Lets make it competitive against J50. instead of current one.
@vstol Jockey can help with design as he already have one.
How much of changes required will depend on datas.. which we don't have to discuss.
As per picdel almirand oil it won't be big..and also read some where French can modify necessary things to drop fit into Mk2 engine bay. Since Rafale itself was certified using F404.