Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

This is getting delusional now. Why the F would any F-35 fanboy care whether India bought the Rafale or the SU-xx , or something else? We know India isn't being offered the F-35.
You'd be surprised to note pops , the F-35 is participating in the Aero India 23 expo to be held in a few days including holding an acrobatic display though what exactly is acrobatic about the Lightning only sweetie'd know . Then again who wants to be subjected to another round of triangle like aircrafts & E Virus like Stuxnet . At least I lack the patience for it .

Rumour has it the US is keen to enter the Lightnings as a candidate in the MRFA tender . Hell , it could just be rumours but you never know .
 
Lol. Ohhh the butt hurt by many F-35-contras in here if India announces it is interested in F-35's will be absolutely DELICIOUS!

But I doubt it since US doesn't trust India yet with F-35 tech.
Not only that. They can't even get a classified briefing, as they requested. The taste of sour grapes must taste nice. They keep coming back for more.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is formally requesting a classified briefing by U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin on the capabilities of its fifth-generation stealth multirole F-35A Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II, the aircraft’s conventional takeoff and landing version, according to Indian media reports.

The United States has not formally offered the aircraft to India and any classified briefing would require clearance by the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of State. The Business Standard reports that the IAF would possibly be interested in procuring up to 126 F-35As from the United States as a deal for 126 French-made Dassault Rafale multirole fighter aircraft fell through.
 
Not only that. They can't even get a classified briefing, as they requested.
Comes up with an article from 2018 ? Really pops ? Here's the rebuttal from the same author . Do better next time .

 
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Not only that. They can't even get a classified briefing, as they requested. The taste of sour grapes must taste nice. They keep coming back for more.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is formally requesting a classified briefing by U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin on the capabilities of its fifth-generation stealth multirole F-35A Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II, the aircraft’s conventional takeoff and landing version, according to Indian media reports.

The United States has not formally offered the aircraft to India and any classified briefing would require clearance by the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of State. The Business Standard reports that the IAF would possibly be interested in procuring up to 126 F-35As from the United States as a deal for 126 French-made Dassault Rafale multirole fighter aircraft fell through.
I love how the IAF after getting rejected they deny they ever asked for a briefing.

Btw don't mind my pet monkey who likes to post tranny pics to let me know what gets him off or the fact that he is still stuck on stupid when it comes to comprehending what General Hostage meant when he said F-35 is E-virus capable. Numb nuts wants details but he's too stupid to understand it's classified just like its APG-81 capability.

This article is what has him stuck on stupid.

-LANGLEY AFB: If you want to stop a conversation about the F-35 with a military officer or industry expert, then just start talking about its cyber or electronic warfare capabilities.

These are the capabilities that most excite the experts I’ve spoken with because they distinguish the F-35 from previous fighters, giving it what may be unprecedented abilities to confuse the enemy, attack him in new ways through electronics (think Stuxnet), and generally add enormous breadth to what we might call the plane’s conventional strike capabilities.

So I asked Air Force Gen. Mike Hostage, head of Air Combat Command here, about the F-35’s cyber capabilities, mentioning comments by former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz several years ago about the F-35 having the “nascent capability” to attack Integrated Air Defense Systems (known to you and me as surface to air missiles) with cyber weapons.

Hostage deftly shifts the conversation each time I press for insights on the F-35’s cyber and EW. He doesn’t refuse to talk, as that would be impolite and, well, too obvious.

He starts off with what sounds like a shaggy dog story.

“When I was a youngster flying F-16s we would go fly close air support at the National Training Center for the Army,” he tells me. “They would have a large ground force: blue guys, OpFor [opposing forces], they’d go out and have big battles on the ground. And they would bring the [Close Air Support] CAS in to participate. They’d let us come in, we’d fly for 30 minutes and then they’d shoo us away because they wanted to have their force on force and if they allowed the CAS to participate during force on force it fundamentally changed the nature of the ground battle.”

Then he brings us back to the issue at hand, and mentions the Air Force’s Red Flag exercises, the pinnacle of the service’s force-on-force training: “Fast forward to today. We do Red Flag for the purpose of giving our young wingman those first 10 days of combat, or first 10 combat missions in a controlled environment because what we’ve studied over the years of conflict is the first 10 missions are where you’re most likely to lose your fleet. So if you can replicate that first 10 in a controlled environment with a very high degree of fidelity, you’ve greatly increased the probability that they’re going to survive their actual first 10 combat missions. So Red Flag is the closest we can get to real combat without actually shooting people.”

Allies are a key part of the Red Flag exercises, especially as the F-35 becomes the plane flown by most of our closest allies, from Britain to Israel to Australia and beyond. But the toughest, most realistic exercises at Red Flag occur when it’s only American pilots flying against each other.

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”

Then he gets back to the point at hand. “So, to answer your question, it has tremendous capability. We’re in the early stages of exploring how to get the most effectiveness out of cyber and space, but we’re integrating it into the Air Operations Center; we’re integrating it into the combat plan; and it is absolutely the way of the future. And you’re right, the AESA radar has tremendous capacity to play in that game.”

Boil all that down and it comes to this. Gen. Hostage is saying that the F-35’s cyber capabilities are so effective — combined with space assets, which are often difficult to distinguish in effect from cyber capabilities — that the planes have to stop using them so the pilots can shoot at each other.

The obvious question that arises from this is, how can a radar system also be a cyber weapon? We’ve all seen those World War II movies where the radar dish sweeps back and forth. The energy beams out, strikes the enemy plane and comes back as a blip. What makes an AESA radar special is the fact that it beams energy in digital zeroes and ones — and the beam can be focused. This allows the radar to function as both a scanning radar, a cyber weapon and an electronic warfare tool.

AESA Radar, Cyber And IADS

Here’s an excellent explanation for how we go from radio and radar and military systems that are not connected to the Internet yet remain vulnerable to hacking that I’ve cribbed from my deputy, Sydney Freedberg, from a recent piece he wrote in Breaking Defense about cyberwar. An enemy’s radios and radars are run by computers, so you can transmit signals to hack them. If the enemy’s computers are linked together then your virus can spread throughout that network. The enemy does not have to be connected to the Internet. You just need the enemy’s radios and radar to receive incoming signals – which they have to do in order to function.

So, as a former top intelligence official explained to me about two years ago, the AESA radar’s beams can throw out those zeros and ones to ANY sort of receiver. And an enemy’s radar is a receiver. His radios are receivers. Some of his electronic warfare sensors are also receivers.

But neither Hostage nor many others I spoke with were willing to be specific on the record about how effective the AESA radar, working with the aircraft’s sensors like the Distributed Aperture System and its data fusion system, will be. So the following is information culled from conversations over the last three months with a wide range of knowledgeable people inside government and the defense industry, as well as retired military and intelligence officers.

As the F-35 flies toward the Chinese coast and several hundred incoming PLAAF J-20s streak toward them in the scenario outlined in the first piece of this series, spoofing (using the enemy’s own systems to deceive him) will be a major part of our attack.

Enemy radar may well show thousands of F-35s and other aircraft heading their way, with stealth cross-sections that appear to match what the Chinese believe is the F-35’s cross section. Only a few hundred of them are real, but the Chinese can’t be certain which are which, forcing them to waste long-range missiles and forcing them to get closer to the US and allied F-35s so they can tell with greater fidelity which ones are real. The Chinese will try and use Infrared Search and Track (IRST) sensors, which have shorter ranges but provide tremendous fidelity in the right weather conditions. But that, of course, renders them more vulnerable to one sensor on the F-35 that even the plane’s critics rarely criticize, the Distributed Aperture System (DAS).-


What's so hard to comprehend, right?

I'm split whether I want India to have F-35's. Part of me says yes so that the handful of fools in here get severely butt hurt and don't have a choice but to stfu and the other part is somewhat evil... I want the PLAAF to continue to have an overwhelming edge over the IAF so that when a conflict does happens, which it will the way the world is going, they take a huge beating so that the many fools in here finally figure it out that their Rafale was nothing but a 4th gen fighter and nothing special.
 
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I love how the IAF after getting rejected they deny they ever asked for a briefing.

We love how after being told no thank you , the US & it's no good citizens keep behaving like jilted lovers leaking information to the press forcing an official rebuttal by no less than the CAS for which his counterpart had nothing to say. How's that sweetie ?

Btw don't mind my pet monkey who likes to post tranny pics to let me know what gets him off

Damn ! Those pics of that Indan cricketer , the Russian bear so sorry that Russian gent with his bear & this Miss USA certainly got under sweetie's skin. Well I was under the impression all trans are fags & vice-versa . Are you saying that's not the case ? Not being a fag , how am I to be blamed for assumptions ? Well I'd keep that in mind for the next time

.... & Send you more trans pics . 😁

or the fact that he is still stuck on stupid when it comes to comprehending what General Hostage meant when he said F-35 is E-virus capable. Numb nuts wants details but he's too stupid to understand it's classified just like its APG-81 capability.

This article is what has him stuck on stupid.

-LANGLEY AFB: If you want to stop a conversation about the F-35 with a military officer or industry expert, then just start talking about its cyber or electronic warfare capabilities.

These are the capabilities that most excite the experts I’ve spoken with because they distinguish the F-35 from previous fighters, giving it what may be unprecedented abilities to confuse the enemy, attack him in new ways through electronics (think Stuxnet), and generally add enormous breadth to what we might call the plane’s conventional strike capabilities.

So I asked Air Force Gen. Mike Hostage, head of Air Combat Command here, about the F-35’s cyber capabilities, mentioning comments by former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz several years ago about the F-35 having the “nascent capability” to attack Integrated Air Defense Systems (known to you and me as surface to air missiles) with cyber weapons.

Hostage deftly shifts the conversation each time I press for insights on the F-35’s cyber and EW. He doesn’t refuse to talk, as that would be impolite and, well, too obvious.

He starts off with what sounds like a shaggy dog story.

“When I was a youngster flying F-16s we would go fly close air support at the National Training Center for the Army,” he tells me. “They would have a large ground force: blue guys, OpFor [opposing forces], they’d go out and have big battles on the ground. And they would bring the [Close Air Support] CAS in to participate. They’d let us come in, we’d fly for 30 minutes and then they’d shoo us away because they wanted to have their force on force and if they allowed the CAS to participate during force on force it fundamentally changed the nature of the ground battle.”

Then he brings us back to the issue at hand, and mentions the Air Force’s Red Flag exercises, the pinnacle of the service’s force-on-force training: “Fast forward to today. We do Red Flag for the purpose of giving our young wingman those first 10 days of combat, or first 10 combat missions in a controlled environment because what we’ve studied over the years of conflict is the first 10 missions are where you’re most likely to lose your fleet. So if you can replicate that first 10 in a controlled environment with a very high degree of fidelity, you’ve greatly increased the probability that they’re going to survive their actual first 10 combat missions. So Red Flag is the closest we can get to real combat without actually shooting people.”

Allies are a key part of the Red Flag exercises, especially as the F-35 becomes the plane flown by most of our closest allies, from Britain to Israel to Australia and beyond. But the toughest, most realistic exercises at Red Flag occur when it’s only American pilots flying against each other.

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”

Then he gets back to the point at hand. “So, to answer your question, it has tremendous capability. We’re in the early stages of exploring how to get the most effectiveness out of cyber and space, but we’re integrating it into the Air Operations Center; we’re integrating it into the combat plan; and it is absolutely the way of the future. And you’re right, the AESA radar has tremendous capacity to play in that game.”

Boil all that down and it comes to this. Gen. Hostage is saying that the F-35’s cyber capabilities are so effective — combined with space assets, which are often difficult to distinguish in effect from cyber capabilities — that the planes have to stop using them so the pilots can shoot at each other.

The obvious question that arises from this is, how can a radar system also be a cyber weapon? We’ve all seen those World War II movies where the radar dish sweeps back and forth. The energy beams out, strikes the enemy plane and comes back as a blip. What makes an AESA radar special is the fact that it beams energy in digital zeroes and ones — and the beam can be focused. This allows the radar to function as both a scanning radar, a cyber weapon and an electronic warfare tool.

I recall the last time you went head on with Milspec & he asked you to explain how exactly will this e virus be transmitted to those planes or the IADS you were at sixes & sevens . Here , let me jog your memory

As I said, If you want to regurgitate data from the internet without using your grey cells, that is completely your choice. I deal with real firmware and industrial comm protocols for a living, if someone tells me an aircraft is going to wirelessly implant Stuxnet type viruses on military equipment which at times has no PLC and can have custom controls, languages, and sensors and infect them without any real demonstration, I am going to say that is highly unlikely. If it indeed is some technology that I cannot comprehend at this point in time, I am more than open to learning something new and be amazed. Until then I will hold my position.

As far as f35, I have nothing against F35''s capabilities, It's a great plane, and I hope IAF/IN opts for a squadron or two if our development programs don't pan out.

Coming back to this virus, I would love to learn more. Please do educate me on how does a virus affects dissimilar systems.

Here's your autistic response . Why autistic ? Will address that in a moment .

"Coming back to this virus, I would love to learn more. Please do educate me on how does a virus affects dissimilar systems."

To me that is the amazing part too. I can't comprehend how such technology can exist as to infect a system but the General hints at it twice in two interviews and he was at the time the head of the F-35 program. The way I see it the US has technology so far advanced that I myself likely can't comprehend. Ben Rich late CEO of Skunkworks said in interview with Jim Goodall, “Jim, we have things out in the desert that are fifty (50) years beyond what you could possibly comprehend. If you have seen it on Star Wars or Star Trek, we’ve been there done that, or decided it was not worth the effort”

General Hostage head program director of F-35 hints of such capability twice then I'm willing to believe such technology exist.

Few years ago USAF made it known to the world that it has aircraft that is not the B-21, B-2 or NGAD when it flew a formation of black triangle aircraft over Texas and Kansas in broad daylight at con altitude so that everyone could see. I took it as a message to china and Russia.

View attachment 20409

To me I don't find it hard to believe the F-35 has such capabilities especially when a USAF General that is head of F-35 program hints at it twice in interview.

To which this is how Milspec replied to which you obviously had no answer .

I thought my post was quite simply worded.
I do not care about claims without verifiable data. The good generals claim as of now just remains a claim on the basis of current logic. He can claim light sabres all I care for, once it's verifiable, we will believe it. Hope that clarifies.



AESA Radar, Cyber And IADS

Here’s an excellent explanation for how we go from radio and radar and military systems that are not connected to the Internet yet remain vulnerable to hacking that I’ve cribbed from my deputy, Sydney Freedberg, from a recent piece he wrote in Breaking Defense about cyberwar. An enemy’s radios and radars are run by computers, so you can transmit signals to hack them. If the enemy’s computers are linked together then your virus can spread throughout that network. The enemy does not have to be connected to the Internet. You just need the enemy’s radios and radar to receive incoming signals – which they have to do in order to function.

So, as a former top intelligence official explained to me about two years ago, the AESA radar’s beams can throw out those zeros and ones to ANY sort of receiver. And an enemy’s radar is a receiver. His radios are receivers. Some of his electronic warfare sensors are also receivers.

But neither Hostage nor many others I spoke with were willing to be specific on the record about how effective the AESA radar, working with the aircraft’s sensors like the Distributed Aperture System and its data fusion system, will be. So the following is information culled from conversations over the last three months with a wide range of knowledgeable people inside government and the defense industry, as well as retired military and intelligence officers.

As the F-35 flies toward the Chinese coast and several hundred incoming PLAAF J-20s streak toward them in the scenario outlined in the first piece of this series, spoofing (using the enemy’s own systems to deceive him) will be a major part of our attack.

Enemy radar may well show thousands of F-35s and other aircraft heading their way, with stealth cross-sections that appear to match what the Chinese believe is the F-35’s cross section. Only a few hundred of them are real, but the Chinese can’t be certain which are which, forcing them to waste long-range missiles and forcing them to get closer to the US and allied F-35s so they can tell with greater fidelity which ones are real. The Chinese will try and use Infrared Search and Track (IRST) sensors, which have shorter ranges but provide tremendous fidelity in the right weather conditions. But that, of course, renders them more vulnerable to one sensor on the F-35 that even the plane’s critics rarely criticize, the Distributed Aperture System (DAS).-


What's so hard to comprehend, right?

You're right , it's not hard to comprehend at all . It's called spoofing . That's what SPECTRA is all about as @Picdelamirand-oil was trying his utmost to explain since a year & a half but failed not because he wasn't articulate enough but coz you're technologically illiterate which tells us that you don't have an engineering background nor do you have any technical or scientific background as well , otherwise those questions which needed to be asked as anybody with a background in those aforementioned topics would definitely ask , equipped as they are with a certain something called critical thinking , (which clearly you lack) would immediately identify the problem & the solution being presented , dissect the latter for better understanding , which you did not , hence you could not explain the phenomenon , which most guys here with a technical background figured out from Day 1 but not you .

I'm split whether I want India to have F-35's. Part of me says yes so that the handful of fools in here get severely butt hurt and don't have a choice but to stfu and the other part is somewhat evil... I want the PLAAF to continue to have an overwhelming edge over the IAF so that when a conflict does happens, which it will the way the world is going, they take a huge beating so that the many fools in here finally figure it out that their Rafale was nothing but a 4th gen fighter and nothing special.

You don't get to decide sweetie . Your government does & we figure that the US would rather employ India against China as it did Ukraine against Russia , so as to save itself the bother of having to deploy its own resources to fight China . Towards this end , it'd definitely try to sell us the F-35 . Does India want it ? Undoubtedly it'd be a huge asset to us but we'd want it without the strings it comes with . That's why the entire deal is stuck up . Plus it's work in progress which brings me to an important point .

Forget about India & the Rafales . Think of the possibilities if you were to face up to China over Taiwan before we do . What happens then ? You better hope that the 200 odd Lightnings you're deploying against China works , especially that "E virus like Stuxnet part " else those 1000 J-20s those Lightnings see flying against them would certainly not be an illusion of Chinese EW but real 5th Gen fighter aircraft flying out to meet your Lightnings head on .

Another thing , just hope & pray that all those software & hardware upgrades for the Lightnings come on time & are glitch free especially that new engine & most importantly that FOC comes before that big confrontation against China else your jocks would be playing with their joysticks in the Lightning instead of the joystick of the Lightning in their bases across East Asia . Hopefully those E virus like Stuxnet comes in handy .

Ja , sweetie ?
 
This is getting delusional now. Why the F would any F-35 fanboy care whether India bought the Rafale or the SU-xx , or something else? We know India isn't being offered the F-35.

The F-35 is showing up to Aero India in 2 weeks.

Instead of bothering with the IAF, you gotta look at things from the IN's perspective since they are currently in the market for a carrier jet. I had pointed out some time ago that the F-35 allows the US to throw a monkey wrench in the works after the SH lost to the Rafale.

This may be the last "realistic" chance the US has to enter the Indian fighter market.

The US is also coming over with the B-1 Lancer, as a potential competitor to the Tu-160M. The bomber is of greater consequence than the F-35.
 
I love how the IAF after getting rejected they deny they ever asked for a briefing.

Btw don't mind my pet monkey who likes to post tranny pics to let me know what gets him off or the fact that he is still stuck on stupid when it comes to comprehending what General Hostage meant when he said F-35 is E-virus capable. Numb nuts wants details but he's too stupid to understand it's classified just like its APG-81 capability.
Are you and anonymous still at it? Unfortunately a while ago, something went wrong with the site and I can't see his posts.:unsure:
 
The F-35 is showing up to Aero India in 2 weeks.

Instead of bothering with the IAF, you gotta look at things from the IN's perspective since they are currently in the market for a carrier jet. I had pointed out some time ago that the F-35 allows the US to throw a monkey wrench in the works after the SH lost to the Rafale.

This may be the last "realistic" chance the US has to enter the Indian fighter market.

The US is also coming over with the B-1 Lancer, as a potential competitor to the Tu-160M. The bomber is of greater consequence than the F-35.
Everyone else with Russian stuff is being rejected. Including Turkey, who was a partner and NATO member. Why do you think they would treat India differently and upset the other countries even more?
 
Not only that. They can't even get a classified briefing, as they requested. The taste of sour grapes must taste nice. They keep coming back for more.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is formally requesting a classified briefing by U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin on the capabilities of its fifth-generation stealth multirole F-35A Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II, the aircraft’s conventional takeoff and landing version, according to Indian media reports.

The United States has not formally offered the aircraft to India and any classified briefing would require clearance by the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of State. The Business Standard reports that the IAF would possibly be interested in procuring up to 126 F-35As from the United States as a deal for 126 French-made Dassault Rafale multirole fighter aircraft fell through.
UAE also requested classified Briefing. without any order so far.
 
UAE also requested classified Briefing. without any order so far.
Another one rejected, only this time it was over China. Trump approved it just before leaving office and Biden canned it. Everyone knows what they need to do, to have a chance of getting the F-35.
Meanwhile the frogs are saying the US blackmails' countries to buy it.:eek:
 
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Not only that. They can't even get a classified briefing, as they requested. The taste of sour grapes must taste nice. They keep coming back for more.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is formally requesting a classified briefing by U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin on the capabilities of its fifth-generation stealth multirole F-35A Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II, the aircraft’s conventional takeoff and landing version, according to Indian media reports.

The United States has not formally offered the aircraft to India and any classified briefing would require clearance by the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of State. The Business Standard reports that the IAF would possibly be interested in procuring up to 126 F-35As from the United States as a deal for 126 French-made Dassault Rafale multirole fighter aircraft fell through.
UAE also requested classified Briefing. without any order so far.
Another one rejected, only this time it was over China. Trump approved it just before leaving office and Biden canned it. Everyone knows what they need to do, to have a chance of getting the F-35.
Meanwhile the frogs are saying the US blackmails' countries to buy it.:eek:
France has no pressure lever against USA.
 
Are you and anonymous still at it? Unfortunately a while ago, something went wrong with the site and I can't see his posts.:unsure:
Lulz. The mental midget can't let me go. Ever since I got him to say something that got him banned he's been on a mission. He even imposed a self ban/boycott of this place because of me but that didn't last. I KID YOU NOT mate since he came back he's been posting pics of tranny's trying to get my attention to show me what he's into. He also post videos of animals having sex which is another thing he's into.

Poor fella ever since I became a member and starting calling out his BS it has been a nightmare for him. He told me that before I arrived here he's never been banned and that I'm to blame for his problems. Oh yeah he also posted a pic of a short shirtless Indian "athlete" that he's into... I didn't mind that because gay is "normal" and I'm not going to knock him for that I just told him I aint into that.

Lol. He really keeps me amused it's like having a pet monkey but without the biting and cleaning up sht.
 
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Everyone else with Russian stuff is being rejected. Including Turkey, who was a partner and NATO member. Why do you think they would treat India differently and upset the other countries even more?

We didn't invite the F-35, Lock Mart is participating with it on their own.

Did you forget the US offered both THAAD and Patriot in lieu of the S-400? It's India that rejected the Americans then.

In any case, India is far more special than 'other' countries. Today, we are the only military force on the planet capable of invading China. And India is the only country capable of competing with the Chinese economy in the long run, not even all the advanced economies combined can do that, never mind the US and EU combined. Hence the desperation to get India on its side.

Too little too late though. The Americans deeply underestimated the Chinese threat and that resulted in serious miscalculation. What should have been done by the US in the early 90s for India happened only 25 years later.

By the way, the F-35 will be contemporary with other jets in the 2030s. It lost its special status ever since LM screwed it up. What should have happened in 2019 has still not happened yet, and could take until 2029, and even that date's tentative.
 
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We didn't invite the F-35, Lock Mart is participating with it on their own.

Did you forget the US offered both THAAD and Patriot in lieu of the S-400? It's India that rejected the Americans then.

In any case, India is far more special than 'other' countries. Today, we are the only military force on the planet capable of invading China. And India is the only country capable of competing with the Chinese economy in the long run, not even all the advanced economies combined can do that, never mind the US and EU combined. Hence the desperation to get India on its side.

Too little too late though. The Americans deeply underestimated the Chinese threat and that resulted in serious miscalculation. What should have been done by the US in the early 90s for India happened only 25 years later.

By the way, the F-35 will be contemporary with other jets in the 2030s. It lost its special status ever since LM screwed it up. What should have happened in 2019 has still not happened yet, and could take until 2029, and even that date's tentative.
India is obviously free to choose what it thinks is better for them, politically or/and militarily. I understand the close relationship with Russian stuff from the early years, going forward. Also its past isolationist views. Some years ago it rejected an offer by Australia for naval co-operation. This has since turned around.

You can have your opinion on the F-35. There are a lot of countries that disagree with you. However I'm sure you think you are right. You may even think the Rafale and SU, has more capability than the US teen series.
 
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The latest DOT&E 2022 report mentioned F-35s going up against Radar Signal Emulator (RSE). The Air Force began deploying this system around 2018, I noticed a post from Eielson AFB a year ago that discussed their new system named "YETI" which resembled RSE for the JPARC:

News

The state-of-the-art emitter, nicknamed “YETI,” enhances the 354th Fighter Wing’s ability to train and integrate advanced operations for Alaska-based units, the joint force and international allies and partners by training pilots and aircrews to detect and destroy SAMs.

“The YETI is an exciting addition to our range’s capabilities,” said Lt. Col. Eric Ringelstetter, 354th Range Squadron director of operations. “Its ability to represent relevant SAM radars on the ground will allow us to facilitate more modernized, advanced training to those who use the range from across the area of responsibility. The investment helps ensure the JPARC remains relevant into the future and that our units are getting training at the level they really need.”

1675351531159.png

1675351581244.png
 
India is obviously free to choose what it thinks is better for them, politically or/and militarily. I understand the close relationship with Russian stuff from the early years, going forward. Also its past isolationist views. Some years ago it rejected an offer by Australia for naval co-operation. This has since turned around.

Some things are mixed up. India wasn't isolationist, we chose to be non-aligned, but that got us ostracized by the West.

Then the US started funding our main adversary in the 50s, and then the Chinese in the 70s. So we picked the SU out of compulsion.

Otoh, while we were ostracized by the West, our cooperation with the rest of the Third World was golden, so we were not isolationists. And now, while the Third World is gaining prominence, we are reaping the reward due to our long term strategy. That's effectively 4 billion people with a very positive view of India, not counting India and China.

So it's a Western decision to keep us out of their circle. It never had to be that way, and this is something the West has realised in hindsight.

As for Australia, the deal was for Australia to participate actively with its own navy. But Australia only wanted to send observers, which India rejected. It's 'cause the Aussies didn't want to piss off the Chinese. But once relations deteriorated between the two, Australia changed tune and decided on active participation, which was warmly received in India. So even that wasn't on us.

You can have your opinion on the F-35. There are a lot of countries that disagree with you. However I'm sure you think you are right. You may even think the Rafale and SU, has more capability than the US teen series.

It's inaccurate. It's all relative to base design of these aircraft.

The Flanker family is far superior to the F-16 and SH, this was detemined via multiple exercises and tender competitions. The Su-30MKM beat the SH B2 in Malaysia purely on tech specs in pretty much every parameter. But the Flanker family is slightly inferior to the F-15 due to the lack of an AESA radar, even though both perform pretty much at the same level at higher altitudes. With the same tech base, it's difficult to say which jet will win.

When it comes to the Rafale, the same thing, it beats the Teen series in pretty much every parameter, even the F-15. For example, the IAF says the Rafale is 200% superior to the MKI, while having a 2.5 times range and maintenance advantages over the Su-30. Plus far superior weapons in the short and medium range. So it's obvious none of the Teen series can compete with the Rafale.

But when compared to the F-35, the Rafale has been designed as an air superiority fighter, whereas the F-35 isn't. Although people don't like to believe it, the Rafale is pretty stealthy, and when combined with its air superiority qualities like supercruise, acceleration, agility and integrated avionics, its base qualities far exceed the F-35 in the air to air role. Otoh, the F-35, having been designed as a ground strike fighter with a secondary A2A capability, it exceeds the Rafale's strike capabilities. The only problem is the F-35 is better than the Rafale on paper, it needs to first meet the paper specs before it can be compared to the Rafale, which has proven real world strike capabilities that exceed the capabilities of existing jets. But I'm sure that once it's been fully developed, with a new engine and upgraded avionics, the F-35 will significantly exceed the Rafale in strike capabilities, ie around 30 years after the Rafale was introduced, which is the natural state of things.

Simply put, the F-22 is a better A2A fighter and the F-35 is a better A2G fighter than the Rafale. Makes sense, right? It's the American hi-lo combo. But the problem is the F-22's development stalled thanks to Robert Gates, and the F-35 is in development hell, whereas the French did it right. So this is where we are at now.

Furthermore, Rafale compensates for the differences with weapons. It can't defeat the F-22 in a head-on confrontation with the MICA, so it has the Meteor, which is 100% superior to the Aim-120D, for the long range fight. And when the fight gets closer, the MICA has the range and kinematic advantage over the AIM-120D and AIM-9X combo. The MICA has higher speed, acceleration, G performance and off-bore angles, and will be further improved on the MICA-NG. The Rafale has better short/medium range A2G weapons like the Hammer (multiple seeker options and is powered) than the Americans do, and Indian money is further enhancing the weapons options (long range ARM, Brahmos, SDB-class weapon etc), and has also plugged some of the Rafale's holes that the French have hesitated to fix due to whatever reason (IRST, HMDS, towed decoy etc).

Rafale is better than the F-22/F-35 combo simply because it works, and the Indian version is currently its most advanced form today.
 
Nope

CAS is just one small aspect of the overall strike component.

CAS is meant to support troops on the ground. Other types of A2G missions are SEAD/DEAD, interdiction, deep strike and anti-ship.

The people in the article are discussing pointless sh!t. Such types of missions are now impossible to carry out due to all the advances made in air defences. The USAF plans to use the F-16 and possibly a new 4.5th gen or 5th minus fighter to replace the F-16 for CAS.

The alternative is to use high-speed next gen attack helicopters which can carry large payloads and have twice the speed of existing helicopters.

A helicopter/aircraft based on this design will replace the Apache after 2030.
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Some things are mixed up. India wasn't isolationist, we chose to be non-aligned, but that got us ostracized by the West.

Then the US started funding our main adversary in the 50s, and then the Chinese in the 70s. So we picked the SU out of compulsion.

Otoh, while we were ostracized by the West, our cooperation with the rest of the Third World was golden, so we were not isolationists. And now, while the Third World is gaining prominence, we are reaping the reward due to our long term strategy. That's effectively 4 billion people with a very positive view of India, not counting India and China.

So it's a Western decision to keep us out of their circle. It never had to be that way, and this is something the West has realised in hindsight.

As for Australia, the deal was for Australia to participate actively with its own navy. But Australia only wanted to send observers, which India rejected. It's 'cause the Aussies didn't want to piss off the Chinese. But once relations deteriorated between the two, Australia changed tune and decided on active participation, which was warmly received in India. So even that wasn't on us.



It's inaccurate. It's all relative to base design of these aircraft.

The Flanker family is far superior to the F-16 and SH, this was detemined via multiple exercises and tender competitions. The Su-30MKM beat the SH B2 in Malaysia purely on tech specs in pretty much every parameter. But the Flanker family is slightly inferior to the F-15 due to the lack of an AESA radar, even though both perform pretty much at the same level at higher altitudes. With the same tech base, it's difficult to say which jet will win.

When it comes to the Rafale, the same thing, it beats the Teen series in pretty much every parameter, even the F-15. For example, the IAF says the Rafale is 200% superior to the MKI, while having a 2.5 times range and maintenance advantages over the Su-30. Plus far superior weapons in the short and medium range. So it's obvious none of the Teen series can compete with the Rafale.

But when compared to the F-35, the Rafale has been designed as an air superiority fighter, whereas the F-35 isn't. Although people don't like to believe it, the Rafale is pretty stealthy, and when combined with its air superiority qualities like supercruise, acceleration, agility and integrated avionics, its base qualities far exceed the F-35 in the air to air role. Otoh, the F-35, having been designed as a ground strike fighter with a secondary A2A capability, it exceeds the Rafale's strike capabilities. The only problem is the F-35 is better than the Rafale on paper, it needs to first meet the paper specs before it can be compared to the Rafale, which has proven real world strike capabilities that exceed the capabilities of existing jets. But I'm sure that once it's been fully developed, with a new engine and upgraded avionics, the F-35 will significantly exceed the Rafale in strike capabilities, ie around 30 years after the Rafale was introduced, which is the natural state of things.

Simply put, the F-22 is a better A2A fighter and the F-35 is a better A2G fighter than the Rafale. Makes sense, right? It's the American hi-lo combo. But the problem is the F-22's development stalled thanks to Robert Gates, and the F-35 is in development hell, whereas the French did it right. So this is where we are at now.

Furthermore, Rafale compensates for the differences with weapons. It can't defeat the F-22 in a head-on confrontation with the MICA, so it has the Meteor, which is 100% superior to the Aim-120D, for the long range fight. And when the fight gets closer, the MICA has the range and kinematic advantage over the AIM-120D and AIM-9X combo. The MICA has higher speed, acceleration, G performance and off-bore angles, and will be further improved on the MICA-NG. The Rafale has better short/medium range A2G weapons like the Hammer (multiple seeker options and is powered) than the Americans do, and Indian money is further enhancing the weapons options (long range ARM, Brahmos, SDB-class weapon etc), and has also plugged some of the Rafale's holes that the French have hesitated to fix due to whatever reason (IRST, HMDS, towed decoy etc).

Rafale is better than the F-22/F-35 combo simply because it works, and the Indian version is currently its most advanced form today.
Reality is an unknown concept? There is quite a bit of revisionist history. I didn't expect anything different.