Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile : News, Updates and Discussions

[Saaho]

You are just hung up on the ASMP having the same volume and payload as Brahmos.

I am hung up on ASMP having very similar RANGE and payload as Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile.

This discussion is basically logic fail. The Brahmos has a gigantic booster, bigger and higher payload, seeker, higher range etc.

I repeat Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile. That does not have that huge of booster. That --i surmise-- is the reason it is a good 500 KG lighter than its land based cousin.

And no, if you make the ASMP bigger and land-launched, it will also need a very large booster that will increase weight like crazy.

Once more, the direct comparision is with Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile.

And no, if you make the ASMP bigger and land-launched, it will also need a very large booster that will increase weight like crazy.

Repeat after me, Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED.

This is basically like the Brahmos. The SFDR has two boosters, one takes it to altitude and the other internally located booster propels it to high speed before the ramjet switches on. The weight of the SFDR in this configuration's more than twice the weight of the actual missile.

Once more, Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED.

The ASMP carries a smaller payload that weighs 200Kg or less to 550Km when launched from the air, whereas the Brahmos can carry a 300Kg large warhead to 600-800Km from a state of rest. Not the same class. No comparison. Brahmos is further being upgraded for ranges between 1000-1500km.

ASMP has a payload capacity of 200KG to 300KG and a range of 300-500KM. Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED version has a range of 300-400KM and a payload of 300KG. Yes comparison. Oh did I mention that ASMP was once studied for its 1000-2000 KM range cousin too but dropped because of soviet breaking? And did I mention that there is already a project underway to upgrade ASMP to hypersonic missile with 1000-1500 KM range?

This discussion is basically logic fail.

When you start with flawed premise like you did (with volume and variant of Brahmos), you will end up at wrong conclusion. Its not logic fail it is simply your inability to comprehend the issue.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I am hung up on ASMP having very similar RANGE and payload as Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile.


I repeat Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile. That does not have that huge of booster. That --i surmise-- is the reason it is a good 500 KG lighter than its land based cousin.


Once more, the direct comparision is with Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile.


Repeat after me, Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED.


Once more, Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED.


ASMP has a payload capacity of 200KG to 300KG and a range of 300-500KM. Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED version has a range of 300-400KM and a payload of 300KG. Yes comparison. Oh did I mention that ASMP was once studied for its 1000-2000 KM range cousin too but dropped because of soviet breaking? And did I mention that there is already a project underway to upgrade ASMP to hypersonic missile with 1000-1500 KM range?


When you start with flawed premise like you did (with volume and variant of Brahmos), you will end up at wrong conclusion. Its not logic fail it is simply your inability to comprehend the issue.

Man you hammered the Brahmos ALCM so hard it's probably imprinted on his mind body & soul by now . The next time he reads of Brahmos being conceived of as a GLCM or in an ship bourne AShM capacity his first instinct would likely be to deny it .

 

[randomradio]

I am hung up on ASMP having very similar RANGE and payload as Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile.


I repeat Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile. That does not have that huge of booster. That --i surmise-- is the reason it is a good 500 KG lighter than its land based cousin.


Once more, the direct comparision is with Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED missile.


Repeat after me, Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED.


Once more, Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED.


ASMP has a payload capacity of 200KG to 300KG and a range of 300-500KM. Brahmos AIR LAUNCHED version has a range of 300-400KM and a payload of 300KG. Yes comparison. Oh did I mention that ASMP was once studied for its 1000-2000 KM range cousin too but dropped because of soviet breaking? And did I mention that there is already a project underway to upgrade ASMP to hypersonic missile with 1000-1500 KM range?


When you start with flawed premise like you did (with volume and variant of Brahmos), you will end up at wrong conclusion. Its not logic fail it is simply your inability to comprehend the issue.

Effing hell. This is getting dumber and dumber, and I don't think there's any limit to how dumb it has already gotten. The air-launched Brahmos is simply the same land-based missile with a smaller booster. It's not a dedicated air-launched missile that was designed from the ground up like the ASMP was.

It's the same reason why SAMs are so much bigger than AAMs. The design philosophy itself is completely different.

If you take the Akash and put it on an MKI, all you can do is make the booster smaller, but the missile will remain of the same size and dimensions. Then someone like you will start comparing it to the Meteor instead.

Get this right, the design philosophy is entirely different. Neither the Brahmos nor ASMP are comparable to each other, it doesn't matter how old or new the tech is. It's no different from comparing a pistol to a rifle only because both fire bullets. Both are meant to hit different targets using different bullets at different ranges.

Design philosophy.

Design philosophy.

Once again, design philosophy. Pistol vs rifle.

Design philosophy.

 

[Saaho]

Effing hell. This is getting dumber and dumber, and I don't think there's any limit to how dumb it has already gotten. The air-launched Brahmos is simply the same land-based missile with a smaller booster. It's not a dedicated air-launched missile that was designed from the ground up like the ASMP was.

It's the same reason why SAMs are so much bigger than AAMs. The design philosophy itself is completely different.

If you take the Akash and put it on an MKI, all you can do is make the booster smaller, but the missile will remain of the same size and dimensions. Then someone like you will start comparing it to the Meteor instead.

Get this right, the design philosophy is entirely different. Neither the Brahmos nor ASMP are comparable to each other, it doesn't matter how old or new the tech is. It's no different from comparing a pistol to a rifle only because both fire bullets. Both are meant to hit different targets using different bullets at different ranges.

Design philosophy.

Design philosophy.

Once again, design philosophy. Pistol vs rifle.

Design philosophy.

I am yet to learn a "design philosophy" which produces a rifle with same range, velocity and bullet mass as a pistol.

 

[randomradio]

I am yet to learn a "design philosophy" which produces a rifle with same range, velocity and bullet mass as a pistol.

Obviously. Can't compare two different classes of weapons. The whole point.

 

[Saaho]

Obviously. Can't compare two different classes of weapons. The whole point.

You cann't compare two weapons IF one of them outclasses another. If a rifle can ONLY achieve (in terms of range, stopping power (mainly bullet weight, rate of fire and velocity) same as a pistol, then its simply a shitty rifle! Design philosophy or no design philosophy!

 

[randomradio]

You cann't compare two weapons IF one of them outclasses another. If a rifle can ONLY achieve (in terms of range, stopping power (mainly bullet weight, rate of fire and velocity) same as a pistol, then its simply a shitty rifle! Design philosophy or no design philosophy!

In this case, Brahmos outclasses the ASMP in range-payload performance. Higher range, bigger payload, more agile, actually has a seeker, can hit mobile targets. Pretty much everything is in favour of Brahmos.

 

[Saaho]

In this case, Brahmos outclasses the ASMP in range-payload performance.

No, it does not. The Brahmos Air Launched range is similar to ASMP / ASMP-A. Its payload is 200-300 KG just like ASMP/ASMP-A. It weighs 2(NG variant)-3(current variant) times ASMP/ASMP-A.

 

[Saaho]

more agile, actually has a seeker, can hit mobile targets.

Brahmos can at best hit slow moving large targets like ships or fixed targets like buildings. Seeker is electronic component. NONE of them can explain a 900 KG weight gain in NG variant OR a 1600 KG weight gain in Air Launched version.

 

[randomradio]

Brahmos can at best hit slow moving large targets like ships or fixed targets like buildings. Seeker is electronic component. NONE of them can explain a 900 KG weight gain in NG variant OR a 1600 KG weight gain in Air Launched version.

You are basically saying you don't know anything about this subject.

 

[Saaho]

You are basically saying you don't know anything about this subject.

LOL! When you run out of any real data or any real facts you start mud slinging. Attack the idea NOT the speaker. The words like "You" should not be the object of your argument, it should be "brahmos" and "asmp". Its okay to say that you don't have any source to back up your claim.

 

[jetray]

LOL! When you run out of any real data or any real facts you start mud slinging. Attack the idea NOT the speaker. The words like "You" should not be the object of your argument, it should be "brahmos" and "asmp". Its okay to say that you don't have any source to back up your claim.

you know nothing jon snow, is easy needs no fact.

 

[randomradio]

LOL! When you run out of any real data or any real facts you start mud slinging. Attack the idea NOT the speaker. The words like "You" should not be the object of your argument, it should be "brahmos" and "asmp". Its okay to say that you don't have any source to back up your claim.

Maybe you can explain the difference between JASSM-ER and LRASM.

 

[Hydra]

Brahmos can at best hit slow moving large targets like ships or fixed targets like buildings. Seeker is electronic component. NONE of them can explain a 900 KG weight gain in NG variant OR a 1600 KG weight gain in Air Launched version.

Existing Brahmos is a different class cruise missile compares french air to surface missile ( i dont know is it actually a CM, lacks contour /magnetic contour mapping flight. No official or even reliable unofficial confirmation regarding it), so you cannot expect it to be as light as an air launched missile. Look at a dedicated air to surface missile like KH 59,it is as light as french missile ( of course kh is a subsonic )

The existing Brahmos mounted in MKI is nothing but surface to surface Brahmose with slight modification, means basically 600+ ranged surface to surface p700 hanged under belly of an mki.

Now why envisioned NG is not significantly lighter compares to Western or Russian one? Answer is its an indian missile, and before seeking lightness in NG variant, just do some reaserch on indian missiles and its range, mass etc with respect to western counterparts, A5 like missile is a true Inter continental missile in west, but here its a 5k ranged missile. Reason is we are light years behind west in missile development.

 

[Saaho]

Existing Brahmos is a different class cruise missile compares french air to surface missile ( i dont know is it actually a CM, lacks contour /magnetic contour mapping flight. No official or even reliable unofficial confirmation regarding it), so you cannot expect it to be as light as an air launched missile. Look at a dedicated air to surface missile like KH 59,it is as light as french missile ( of course kh is a subsonic )

Lets compare apple to apple. Subsonic turbofan powered weapons are totally different beasts.

Lets limit to RAM Jet powered supersonic ALCMs.

Those with Russian lineage include

1. Brahmos Air Launched variant (you can even include Brahmos NG ALCM under works) which is a development of P-800 Oniks. They weight around 2500 to 1500 KG.

2. YJ-12 : Range is very similar (even a little less) than ASMP at 400 KM. Payload about 100 KG higher. Weighs 2500 KG. This was a development from Russian Kh-31. It is actually an enlarged version of Kh-31.

Maybe you can explain the difference between JASSM-ER and LRASM.

I may, if you first tell why is this relevant to this discussion.

 

[randomradio]

I may, if you first tell why is this relevant to this discussion.

When you make dumb assertions, you still gotta back it up.

Why don't you start providing sources for all the data? 'Cause I have them, I wanna see if you can do the due diligence needed first. Already given you quite a few days.

So you think missiles with seekers are nothing special, so why don't you look up the differences between the JASSM-ER and a missile that can only target slow moving targets? Given, the missile is from the same maker, I'm sure your expertise can be put too good use explaining the differences.

 

[Saaho]

When you make dumb assertions, you still gotta back it up.

Why don't you start providing sources for all the data? 'Cause I have them, I wanna see if you can do the due diligence needed first. Already given you quite a few days.

So you think missiles with seekers are nothing special, so why don't you look up the differences between the JASSM-ER and a missile that can only target slow moving targets? Given, the missile is from the same maker, I'm sure your expertise can be put too good use explaining the differences.

You have NEVER provided ONE single source of any of the claims you made. Claims like "Fuel in ASMP is more expensive".

I am more than happy to provide reference to all my claims and I usually do it as well. You on the other hand have NEVER used facts or figures but just assertions.

So before I go on a wild goose chase to compare two totally unrelated missiles, do tell me your source for wild claims like "Fueld in ASMP is more expensive than in Brahmos."

 

[randomradio]

You have NEVER provided ONE single source of any of the claims you made. Claims like "Fuel in ASMP is more expensive".

I am more than happy to provide reference to all my claims and I usually do it as well. You on the other hand have NEVER used facts or figures but just assertions.

So before I go on a wild goose chase to compare two totally unrelated missiles, do tell me your source for wild claims like "Fueld in ASMP is more expensive than in Brahmos."

You were the one who made the claim about the ASMP and Brahmos being the same. So please provide data, I don't really care about sources for this, I'd rather see the data you have itself.

And no, the JASSM-ER and LRASM differences are extremely relevant to this discusison. About how two missiles with the same airframe and motor have so much of a difference simply because one of them can hit slow moving targets.

And no, anybody with actual knowledge of these things will nto go around making claims you were. So I'd really like to see what sort of data you have that goes contrary to common sense.

 

[Saaho]

You were the one who made the claim about the ASMP and Brahmos being the same. So please provide data, I don't really care about sources for this, I'd rather see the data you have itself.

I already have provided the data. Range of ASMP/ASMP-A and range of Brahmos Air Launched version (300-500 KM : Air-Sol Moyenne Portée (ASMP/ ASMP-A) | Missile Threat, BrahMos | Missile Threat) . Weight of both and their variants Air launched and NG (860KG vs 2500KG and 1500KG Air-Sol Moyenne Portée (ASMP/ ASMP-A) | Missile Threat , BrahMos | Missile Threat ). Their propulsion mechanism (RAMJet : Air-Sol Moyenne Portée (ASMP/ ASMP-A) | Missile Threat).

Now I need the data AND source for the cost of ASMP/ASMP-A fuel that you claimed.

 

[Saaho]

And no, the JASSM-ER and LRASM differences are extremely relevant to this discusison. About how two missiles with the same airframe and motor have so much of a difference simply because one of them can hit slow moving targets.

And no, anybody with actual knowledge of these things will nto go around making claims you were. So I'd really like to see what sort of data you have that goes contrary to common sense.

We will talk about all these new strawmen that you are bringing but first lets see the claims that you made already and their data source.